Aversion towards promises - a wise choice or laziness?

[ChristianMeteor]

I used to often, when I was younger, make mental affirmations and promises to myself for the purpose of feeling good and/or liking the implications of such conclusions. It was comparable to the whole "new years resolution" idea of saying or deciding on a behavioral change for the purpose of self betterment.

As I explored psychedelics, however, the potential for harm with this practice began to seemingly reveal its self. This occurred particularly in the sense that I was making promises to myself that I was not keeping. Weed had an unmistakable role in this because of its promotion of intoxicating apathy (which proved to be extremely attractive to me) but it caused me a fair bit of mental uncertainty because I could not rely on myself.

A few years later and I hardly ever make those sorts of promises. I especially avoid new years resolutions because they seem rooted not in the idea of necessary change, but instead based on an arbitrary calendric shift...

I have observed my friends doing this kind of "loose promise" in regards to substance use or things that are for the purpose of benefitting health. It seems more common with psychoactive users, and I have one friend in particular that will tell me he's quitting weed once every couple months (It's been years now.)

I'd like to make a distinction between loose promises and semi-moral judgements, however (though in writing that, I question the root of such things). For example, I haven't really made the promise to myself that I wouldn't do meth and heroin, or that I was going to go rob a bank, but these things simply lie outside my realm of consideration.

What I'm getting at is more of "average" sorts of things. Like eating junk food or soda, indulging in narcotics like nicotine, playing video games, or shopping/buying for the dopamine hit. These are of course, "negative" ended things, and one could flip the table and do the same for positive. Walk outside everyday, eat a vegetable everyday, read a book a week, or religiously take supplements and do workouts.

Personally, I find that making these sorts of promises is foundationally high-risk because of the potential for failure and lack of "wiggle room." Why promise that you will do something every day and give yourself absolutely NO room for a break. People seem to do it all the time though, disregarding the consequences of an unreliable psychological affirmative framework.

For me, I avoid such extremes because bad psychedelic trips have made me realize that I have to stick to the things I decide. I consider myself strong willed in that I will follow through with what I say, however because of that facet, I avoid making too many of those sorts of resolutions. Why in the heck would I force myself to walk every single day without having a broad understanding of the implications of that resolution, along with a very firm reason as to WHY I was doing it in the first place.

This is another reason why I am a firm believer in the notion of setting small goals and having expiry dates on things so that one avoids the pain of going back on their own word. Then again, there are extremely disciplined individuals that deprive themselves of many pleasures and follow strict routine, and where the careful tailoring of such things can have undisputed benefit, the lack of freedom is the part that I find the most upsetting.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Interesting topic. Definitely a lot of moving parts here.

I generally don't make promises to myself. I make goals and standards. They have to be mutable and open to alteration however. Change is constant, and as we learn more as we experience more, certain aspects of our thinking should also change. We as humans desire consistency and consistent rules for how to interact with the world. It makes us the most comfortable. But existence isn't like that. It's open-ended, and contextual from one instance to the next.

I am an intense person, so like certain extremes. I also admire discipline. It makes me feel good because of how it feels and what it means to me. I used to squat everyday until I got a lower back injury. I am however trying to get back to it, even if that means it's a lot less weight than I used to push daily. I like to think of it as developing a habit; one that has implications, both physically and mentally, of a desired nature. And I try to think about a lot of things that I would like to consistently do as habits to instill. I do make sure to meditate everyday, without fail. I don't remember the last time that I missed one.

As for video games being negatively ended, I think that depends on how a person plays and interacts with games, and kinds of games played. I don't play as often as I would like, but I tend to play difficult games (Bloodborne has my attention presently). I find a growth value factor evident in the amount of cognitive effort and persistence needed in order for me to excel at some of these games, and I think those are good traits for real-world practical engagements.

It sounds as though you may generally be more mindful in what you vow to do by considering whether or not you can maintain whatever vow that is in question than many people. I feel like most people are on a sort of auto-pilot, and more reactive than active in their thinking. That would reduce certain kinds and depths of self-reflection. And people on the whole tend to do more of what they see is being done around them that already agrees with preestablished cognitive patterns. Hence, the idea of "New Year's Resolution."

Overall, I think it's about finding balance, on many levels, for many regards, with ourselves. And it's different for everyone. I like certain extremes (like meditating everyday and squatting everyday, I'm planning on throwing writing in there too). Many people probably don't.

I'm a little distracted at the moment, but good topic. Thank you for sharing.

One love

 

[Jungleheart]

It's important to me to be true to my word. I always strive for accuracy in my speech and in my self reflection. I think it's an element of self respect for me, that I take myself seriously. This is especially important for me professionally. Imagine an engineer saying a beam is 7' when it is 5'. Once you've proved your word to not be trustworthy, you are no longer trustworthy and people won't want to work for/with you.

This is why I never ask Kikker's opinion on things in the chat. The frog's word is gold to me and to ignore his direction could result in certain doom. Of course other people see his position differently.

 

[ChristianMeteor]

Interesting topic. Definitely a lot of moving parts here.

I generally don't make promises to myself. I make goals and standards. They have to be mutable and open to alteration however. Change is constant, and as we learn more as we experience more, certain aspects of our thinking should also change. We as humans desire consistency and consistent rules for how to interact with the world. It makes us the most comfortable. But existence isn't like that. It's open-ended, and contextual from one instance to the next.

I am an intense person, so like certain extremes. I also admire discipline. It makes me feel good because of how it feels and what it means to me. I used to squat everyday until I got a lower back injury. I am however trying to get back to it, even if that means it's a lot less weight than I used to push daily. I like to think of it as developing a habit; one that has implications, both physically and mentally, of a desired nature. And I try to think about a lot of things that I would like to consistently do as habits to instill. I do make sure to meditate everyday, without fail. I don't remember the last time that I missed one.

As for video games being negatively ended, I think that depends on how a person plays and interacts with games, and kinds of games played. I don't play as often as I would like, but I tend to play difficult games (Bloodborne has my attention presently). I find a growth value factor evident in the amount of cognitive effort and persistence needed in order for me to excel at some of these games, and I think those are good traits for real-world practical engagements.

It sounds as though you may generally be more mindful in what you vow to do by considering whether or not you can maintain whatever vow that is in question than many people. I feel like most people are on a sort of auto-pilot, and more reactive than active in their thinking. That would reduce certain kinds and depths of self-reflection. And people on the whole tend to do more of what they see is being done around them that already agrees with preestablished cognitive patterns. Hence, the idea of "New Year's Resolution."

Overall, I think it's about finding balance, on many levels, for many regards, with ourselves. And it's different for everyone. I like certain extremes (like meditating everyday and squatting everyday, I'm planning on throwing writing in there too). Many people probably don't.

I'm a little distracted at the moment, but good topic. Thank you for sharing.

One love

Thank you for the rich reply; you've posed ideas that I agree with, and as such have inspired in me more thought on topic. Seeking consistency and patterning is an ever present human trait, and I do believe this is a part of peoples haste towards affirmations. Identifying a change that one can make to reach betterment is undoubtedly tempting.

I suppose that it goes with an analogy I have used for both actions and mental conclusions: Many of the things we do and think are like doors, and often the only way to know what's behind them is to go inside. Sometimes we are disillusioned, and other times pleasantly surprised at what's found. Only through wisdom and experience do we get better at predicting what lies behind those doors, and avoiding the ones we've already opened that have led into darkness.

Contextual is a great word for it, but again, there are some resolutions where discipline is king, like cheating on a significant other. I believe that resolutions of that nature should be carefully chosen, like marriage for example, being a life long commitment to another that's purpose is to weather all challenges the future holds. Some lack any affirmations like that, which strikes me as a frightening way to live.

I actually read your post after just having come home from the gym and squatting. There is a sort of self-love that comes out of forcing yourself to do the right thing, even though it may be uncomfortable, inconvenient, exhausting, and frustrating. I think that is what tenacity and discipline is about though. It breeds emotional strength and familiarity with self which is invaluable for facing future challenges.

Good habits do bring rewards of many degrees, but I would argue that trying something on for size and seeing the results is an essential part. Yes, toughing out a resolution for months is beneficial, but I always try to touch base at milestones and ask how the resolution has worked. Has it done anything, or is it just subjective? How have I felt throughout the time, what else have I done differently, and do I believe that extending my period of discipline will continue to yield benefit?

Again, I go back to the door analogy-one can only see what lies behind a door once they've opened it, and it seems foolish to go in with the resolve that you will never again go back. Then again, some drug addicts affirm to never walk back through the door of use, and many marriages go on for decades without infidelity.

Some doors are undoubtedly best left locked, while others should be explored daily. Maybe I'm just casting a wide net, exploring what's out there with low investment and trying to find what works. That, or I cherish my freedom and avoid commitments that compromise it

 

[Tomtegubbe]

I generally don't make promises to myself. I make goals and standards.

Goals and standards are much better than promises. Goal is much more difficult to break than a promise. Sometimes you may do something that doesn't help you to progress in the right direction, but you still know where you aim.

Another thing you can do is to invite positive energies and virtues to your life. You can open yourself to something you find preferable, plant the seed and see how it grows. No guilt trips associated with this method.

 

[Psilosopher?]

New Year's Resolutions are such a backward concept. If one needs the clock to tick over to January 1st in order to kick them into action, then chances are you won't stick with it.

There is a lot of benefit in a routine, but it needs to be catered to the individual. I'm a very chaotic and flexible person, so locking myself into a strict regimented schedule doesn't work. It will only serve to discourage me because i won't be adhering to it consistently.

So, the only way i could derive benefits from a structured mode of living is to make compromises. It's the careful middle ground between adaptability and routine.


While between jobs, i had a lot of free time. Breaking the day into chunks was the first step in auditing my time. I assigned tasks into time blocks. The whole day was accounted for. Clearly, this wasn't compatible with my personality. I couldn't bring myself to adhere to it strictly. This is where the compromise came in. Everything on that schedule is something i highly value. I told myself "You can do ANYTHING on that list, at ANY time, for ANY duration". That's the one and only rule, and it cannot be broken.

For example, one of my tasks is guitar practice. If i spent the entire day practising, every day for months on end, then i am adhering to my "schedule". Purely because it is on the list. This allows for spontaneity and flexibility, but only with activities that have been pre-approved. The benefit of this is you still get the self-satisfaction of completing an approved task, with the illusion of routine. Made it ridiculously more effective in sticking with a plan for self-improvement.

Discipline is all about consistency and building momentum. Once critical mass is achieved, the task becomes automatic and instinctual, like the need to breathe. All the fitness freaks out there will know how terrible it feels when you're forced to skip a training session.

Due to my obsession with discipline, i developed an "all or nothing" mentality which wasn't sustainable. The concept of discipline was so unbelievably attractive, but i could not figure out how to actually stick with it. After some intense self-reflection, i realised what my problem was:


I was far too brutal with myself, all the time. If i didn't meet my own expectations, then i'm a degenerate piece of shit that doesn't deserve the glorious benefits of a disciplined lifestyle. Dismantling this thought was the first step in making progress.


There are times to be brutal with the self, and there are times to be gentle. Compromise, compromise, compromise.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Psilosopher?, this is perhaps the third thing you've said in what seems to be a week that has really hit home and resonated with me.

Discipline is all about consistency and building momentum. Once critical mass is achieved, the task becomes automatic and instinctual, like the need to breathe. All the fitness freaks out there will know how terrible it feels when you're forced to skip a training session.

Due to my obsession with discipline, i developed an "all or nothing" mentality which wasn't sustainable. The concept of discipline was so unbelievably attractive, but i could not figure out how to actually stick with it. After some intense self-reflection, i realised what my problem was:


I was far too brutal with myself, all the time. If i didn't meet my own expectations, then i'm a degenerate piece of shit that doesn't deserve the glorious benefits of a disciplined lifestyle. Dismantling this thought was the first step in making progress.

This was very much me as well. Deriding myself regularly and in turn entering an action paralysis and moving further away from my goals and other things I'm striving for. In my situation I was stubborn, assuming I should stick with it, so it took me a while to address this. Sensory processing sensitivity as well as the endemic endogenous brainwashing from persistent depression. For me I'm finding there is a balance between internal grace with myself and the discipline I wish to achieve.

I think it bears mentioning that discipline, much like truth and objectivity and patience, are traits we can never really have enough of. We can always use more.

Thank you for the rich reply; you've posed ideas that I agree with, and as such have inspired in me more thought on topic. Seeking consistency and patterning is an ever present human trait, and I do believe this is a part of peoples haste towards affirmations. Identifying a change that one can make to reach betterment is undoubtedly tempting.

I suppose that it goes with an analogy I have used for both actions and mental conclusions: Many of the things we do and think are like doors, and often the only way to know what's behind them is to go inside. Sometimes we are disillusioned, and other times pleasantly surprised at what's found. Only through wisdom and experience do we get better at predicting what lies behind those doors, and avoiding the ones we've already opened that have led into darkness.

Contextual is a great word for it, but again, there are some resolutions where discipline is king, like cheating on a significant other. I believe that resolutions of that nature should be carefully chosen, like marriage for example, being a life long commitment to another that's purpose is to weather all challenges the future holds. Some lack any affirmations like that, which strikes me as a frightening way to live.

I actually read your post after just having come home from the gym and squatting. There is a sort of self-love that comes out of forcing yourself to do the right thing, even though it may be uncomfortable, inconvenient, exhausting, and frustrating. I think that is what tenacity and discipline is about though. It breeds emotional strength and familiarity with self which is invaluable for facing future challenges.

Good habits do bring rewards of many degrees, but I would argue that trying something on for size and seeing the results is an essential part. Yes, toughing out a resolution for months is beneficial, but I always try to touch base at milestones and ask how the resolution has worked. Has it done anything, or is it just subjective? How have I felt throughout the time, what else have I done differently, and do I believe that extending my period of discipline will continue to yield benefit?

Again, I go back to the door analogy-one can only see what lies behind a door once they've opened it, and it seems foolish to go in with the resolve that you will never again go back. Then again, some drug addicts affirm to never walk back through the door of use, and many marriages go on for decades without infidelity.

Some doors are undoubtedly best left locked, while others should be explored daily. Maybe I'm just casting a wide net, exploring what's out there with low investment and trying to find what works. That, or I cherish my freedom and avoid commitments that compromise it

Thank you very much, and that makes me very happy to hear

I very much agree with the door analogy. With all things, internal and external, we must be explorers of the landscape to really assess what we think about it and what produces the most benefit in alignment with what may be. Life's a risk and about risks and chances, even within the frameworks of our own minds.

Most people will do the bare amount in most regards because it takes the least amount of energy. This includes with moral judgments.

The best self love we can provide ourselves is through authentic and legitimate growth.

And wiggle room is a must, because we are rarely completely right. This is why I now let my goals and discipline have a unique mutability.

Sorry for the brevity. I'm doing this at work again :twisted:

One love

 

[Icyseeker]

"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." Frank Herbert

This rings true in my life. I also think it's part of the difference between excellence and mediocrity. Striving for a balance is important as well. Having a defined goals and structures can help shape your vision.

 

[Voidmatrix]

"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." Frank Herbert

Elegantly paradoxical

One love

 

[Tomtegubbe]

"Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty." Frank Herbert

This rings true in my life. I also think it's part of the difference between excellence and mediocrity. Striving for a balance is important as well. Having a defined goals and structures can help shape your vision.

I definitely subscribe to the quote, but what is discipline is not always understood very well.

People often make the wrong assumption that discipline is simply a decision and become miserable when they fail to meet the standard they have put for themselves. In Buddhist Vipassana tradition you build discipline through exercise. You sit and pay attention and you become better at it. Trying to squeeze the concentration out of you is a common hindrance.

Resisting the urge to drink alcohol requires effort, but it usually also requires soft ways, like evading the situations where you are likely to drink and finding something better to do. As you build good routines, you need less and less effort.