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Ayahuasca Admixtures - Not psychoactive?

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jungleheart

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Senior Member
Does anyone know of any admixtures that are not psychoactive? That's right, looking for ones that are specifically not. Most of them are.

Thinking of things like ajosacha, ayahuma, bobinsana, etc.

Thanks for any guidance you may have.
 
Hello brother i am from Colombia , some aditives are active and some others not much an example is , some times yage have aditives like stigmaphyllon so is active in potency of terpenoids and beta -carbolines

Some times people use aditives as paleative treatment for physical sickness as what do erythroxylum and some others as stimulants as yoko
Psychotria alba is used as aditive to treat insomnia during the yage ceremony
 
Thanks for your response. I'm struggling with how to maintain some practices while I take a break from psychoactives. I'm feeling a bit exasperated because I haven't been reacting well to psychedelics lately. So I need a break, but not feeling connected to plants is not a good feeling.

Even bobinsana and the like are too psychoactive for me, because I do have some hallucinations with them, which is actually what I'm trying to avoid. I originally thought I would be ok with mapacho, then I realized that nicotine is psychoactive. I somehow managed to find mapacho free rapé, so that is heartening. I'm also thinking of microdosing aya in such small doses that it would be more homeopathic.

I realize it's a bit of a ridiculous request for this forum - how can I avoid tripping while being connected to the practice. I appreciate you responding because it felt a bit like I was shouting into the wind.
 
I consume Rue/Harmalas in full doses on a daily basis, i've done this more often than not since i first discovered this stuff in 2012. For me, Harmalas are effective anti-depressants that have quite a few different medicinal benefits for me. It can be a little rough, at first, but with regular consumption your body gets used to the Harmalas and while the dosage ends up increasing because of reverse tolerance, the side-effects will drop away after a bit and things clean up pretty well and become more medicinal. I don't get any kinds of "hallucinations" from Harmalas, however i do get insights and some tracers here and there, but no trippiness or what not. I've also mixed different herbs or supplements with the Harmalas as admixtures and some things can really clean up how Harmalas feel or add additional benefits.

You may try micro or low dosing Harmalas, i've always just taken a full dose and let things get stronger and stronger lol.
 
ShamensStamen said:
I've also mixed different herbs or supplements with the Harmalas as admixtures and some things can really clean up how Harmalas feel or add additional benefits.

Hi there, thanks for your response. What are some of the herbs and supplements that you've taken that change how harmalas feel and have additional benefits? This interests me.

I do have a lot of experience with harmalas and am unsure how they would impact me now. I am prone to just never stopping hallucinating and it can go on for months or even years without intervention. I know harmalas are psychoactive so I am really nervous to add them since I finally got back to baseline after having an episode in October.
 
I hear ya, for awhile there Cannabis was tripping me out really badly, i had to quit that a couple years ago, finally able to smoke it again without it getting trippy although now i'm much more aware/conscious of my use of it.

As for herbs and supplements...

Lemon Balm is a good anti-anxiety and relaxative herb that raises GABA levels and counteracts Harmaline's GABA-A inverse agonism (thus cleaning up the bodyload and headspace). There's quite a few different herbs i've tried in combination with Harmalas and many different herbs or supplements will change/alter the effects of Harmalas in various ways. I can't really remember what all i've tried, but Lemon Balm was definitely the main one that stuck out as being very useful, but Rosemary for example has similar properties to Lemon Balm but also has it's own medicinal benefits as well. As far as different herbs go, my suggestion would be to just find some common medicinal plants, and try em' out with the Harmalas to see how they interact and what medicinal benefits the mixtures have to offer.

I've also used terpenes like Limonene, Beta-Pinene, and Alpha-Pinene, as far as terpenes go Limonene and Beta-Pinene are two of my top favs, they seem to act as Adenosine A2A agonists which have quite a few medicinal benefits by way of indirect interaction with other receptor systems like reducing Dopamine 2 receptor activity which can be used to quell "hallucinations" like with anti-psychotics except that anti-psychotics block off/antagonize D2 while Adenosine A2A agonists act as negative allosteric modulators at D2, also has similar properties at some other receptors like CB1 and Metabotropic Glutamate 5, and while i like both Limonene and Beta-Pinene, i think i prefer Beta-Pinene more these days, however while i'm pretty sure Beta-Pinene has Adenosine A2A agonism like Limonene does, and iirc i've seen at least one study that said it did, Limonene has been the prime compound for Adenosine A2A agonism and is backed up by multiple studies, Limonene (and potentially Beta-Pinene) also can help with nausea/vomiting (even with Ayahuasca/Harmalas) and can help reduce acid reflux/heartburn and help to heal GERD, at least for me it did, i rarely ever have heartburn or what not anymore.

I've also used certain essential oils like Lemon EO or Ginger EO, i find Ginger EO to be helpful for anti-inflammatory action especially for my skin because i'm prone to like acne break outs or what not, and it also helps with my gut and gives me an anti-depressant effect, Lemon EO on the other hand contains Limonene and Beta-Pinene as well as some other things, but personally i find to be a bit trippy compared to pure/isolated terpenes like Limonene, Beta-Pinene, Alpha-Pinene, etc. Speaking of Alpha-Pinene, it is an Acetylcholinesterase inhibitor and raises levels of Acetylcholine which can be useful for memory and alertness, but Alpha-Pinene can be a little trippy and i think that's one of the things that contributes to Lemon EO's trippiness.

I've also used Mucuna/L-Dopa extract (on it's own, as well as a couple hours before Harmalas), and it increases Dopamine and Noradrenaline and helps to replenish the body with those neurotransmitters, however because it increases Dopamine, Dopamine can activate the D2 receptor and thus Mucuna may end up causing some "hallucinations" to some degree, i mean i've never pushed it, i've only taken 300mgs of the L-Dopa content twice a day for a total of 600mgs, and while i've gotten some mild visual activity from it, it's never made me exactly hallucinate. But, i have noticed that as i mentioned about, with Limonene and Beta-Pinene being Adenosine A2A agonists and A2A agonism reducing activity at the D2 receptor, i've successfully used Limonene, as well as Beta-Pinene, to do that very thing and i can tell it definitely seems to counteract the properties of Dopamine (and Mucuna/L-Dopa) at the D2 receptor, so that can help to quell any hallucinatory activity that may come from Mucuna, imo/ime.

I've also used Caffeine, as well as Theobromine, in conjunction with Harmalas, although gotta be careful and make sure you take a lower dose than usual, at least by half, because Harmalas inhibit CYP1A2 which metabolizes Caffeine/Theobromine and can thus potentiate it and make it more bioavailable, but Caffeine by acting as a non-selective Adenosine antagonist including the A2A receptor (the opposite of Limonene and Beta-Pinene) can help make things a bit more stimulating and clearheaded/alert, and cleans up the headspace and bodyload as well to a certain degree. Theobromine is more of a Phosphodiesterase inhibitor, moreso than Caffeine, and as such produces a good bit of vasodilation and can be a bit heart opening ime, while having weaker Adenosine antagonism than Caffeine. Often times i'll just have a cup of Coffee earlier in the day and take Harmalas at night, or take some Theobromine a few hours before the Harmalas, back in my early days though i'd drink Caffeinated sodas (so pure Caffeine, compared to Coffee or Tea) while on Harmalas and that's how i learned about it's potentiation before i knew about the CYP1A2 inhibition of Harmalas, and so every now and then i'll consume some Caffeine with my Harmalas, but often times i only have some Caffeine after i wake up, though sometimes so of it will still be in my system by the time i consume Harmalas but it does just fine.

Then there's probiotics, those have been a big help for me personally especially with my gut and how i feel overall, plus Harmalas have some anti-microbial properties and as such can kill off certain organisms in the gut (whether good or bad, but i haven't noticed any real negatives in that department from Harmalas) and so replenishing potentially lost good bacteria, as well as helping to maintain good bacteria in the gut, can come in handy with or without dosing Harmalas.

And i've noticed certain vitamins and minerals can be useful, in general and with Harmalas. Like Magnesium for example, plus ime Harmalas seem to use up or deplete Magnesium (though not sure about anything else) and so supplementing with Magnesium if using Harmalas as medicine is a good idea imo. And making sure you're getting enough Vitamin D, Vitamin C, B's, A and so on and so forth.

There's also various Cannabinoids to look into, things like CBD, CBN, CBG, even psychoactive one's like D8-THC and HHC which are milder, not as trippy, and less anxiety-producing than D9. Personally i find Cannabinoids to go very well with Harmalas, even D9/Cannabis which people here seem to frown upon, even though i myself know of the downsides of Cannabis, having gone through them myself, Harmalas just don't feel "right" to me without some CB1 agonism going on, they go hand in hand, but Cannabis especially can be insightful when combined with Harmalas, but Cannabis definitely shouldn't be overused, but other Cannabinoids can also be quite helpful.

As far as something more traditional goes, i find Mapacho to be useful too, although i'm a Tobacco smoker and find Tobacco to be helpful in general, and while i wouldn't necessarily recommend smoking lol, it can have it's benefits, but in the case of Mapacho, specifically the snuff, i've heard good things, i've only smoked Mapacho and haven't yet used it in the form of snuff, but i have had some really old Tobacco snuff on a few occasions that like was my grandparents in an old antique bottle that my mom had put up in a cabinet just because it was an antique bottle, so i took the snuff and left her the bottle lol, and it was definitely still effective but boy does snuff burn, i'd like to get me some Mapacho snuff at some point though. But yeah, Tobacco definitely has a synergy with Harmalas, Nicotine as a pure compound not so much although it can be potentiated a bit by the Acetylcholinesterase inhibition of the Harmalas, but nothing like the potentiation that occurs with Tobacco. I've noticed that both Tobacco, as well as Cannabis, seem to have this effect where they will bring out different aspects of Harmalas, and the Harmalas will bring out different aspects of them, and in the case of Tobacco it has it's place imo, but it can increase the nausea a bit and maybe contribute to purging, but i find Tobacco to be v ery useful for grounding and for clearing the mind.

That's just the basics of what i can remember at the moment, but i've tried a lot of different things and combinations of things, and imo there's a wide range of different herbs and supplements that can be safely mixed with Harmalas for various purposes, and it's a very interesting thing to explore and experiment around with imo.
 
jungleheart said:
...

I realize it's a bit of a ridiculous request for this forum - how can I avoid tripping while being connected to the practice. I appreciate you responding because it felt a bit like I was shouting into the wind.

I don't find it ridiculous at all!

I feel like growing some plants is a great way to keep and strengthen the connection, both during active and abstinent times. It is grounding in and of itself. Seeds of many psychoactive species are cheap and available. So it doesn't take a fortune to find out which ones like to grow with you and in your region. Acacia confusa seems to be pretty easy - just don't let them freeze.

I wouldn't choose mushrooms for this though - they have ways to make you real trippy even when you don't eat them :)
 
I think it's worth trying any plants which you feel drawn to. I heard about lemon balm a few years ago and around the same time, a lemon balm plant appeared in my allotment. Since then it's spread its seeds and has sprouted all over the place. I now drink lemon balm tea regularily, often combining with rue, low doses of melatonin (3mg), mugwort and valerian. (Not always altogether). Just sort of go with my intuitions. Ive also smoked various types of sage with harmalas, to good effect (white sage and Cretan sage). Trying to use tobacco snuffs like rapé without becoming too addicted. Feels fairly healthy if I can restrict my usage to a couple of times a week. Bobinsana intrigues me. Not much solid info about it. Never found it to be overtly psychoactive, but, again, it just feels right. Needs further investigation...
 
I’ve had some experiences with what you’re going through, and just being out in a forested area away from urban sounds helps maintain that connection too. It doesn’t even have to be that. Just sitting with some trees or bushes, or even just a patch of grasses or herbs, and meditating on the relationships between soil minerals and microorganisms and mycorrhizal fungi and the roots of the above ground organisms and the invertebrates above and below the soil, can be a very intimate experience with the plants. I’ll even hug a tree, from time to time, especially one connected to many others by roots, like a stand of aspens. Or to just eat a tomato from a patio or balcony pot, and saving a few seeds for next year and giving baby plants to people you think may enjoy them.

I wish some strong roots for you:love:
 
RhythmSpring said:
Cat's Claw
Yes, cat's claw is used traditionally as an admixture.

Guayusa is another one that does not cause hallucinations. Some people say it causes them to have lucid dreams though. And it is high in cafeïne and theobromine, so it is mildly psycho-active.

Muna is yet another plant that is often used in brews. It is basically a sort of mint. I believe it is mostly used for it's soothing effects on the stomach, as traditional brews can be pretty heavy.
 
I appreciate the time everyone took to reply. Looks like there are a lot of options for me. I'll use this thread as a reference document as I do my research. While I look into the new substances I will also try to get more into meditation and gardening.

Thanks for the support on my journey.
 
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