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Science paper Ayahuasca Alters Structural Parameters of the Rat Aorta
- Thread starter Varallo
- Start date
Pure science papers to share and discuss.
Are there some other studies indicating similar effects? And is there any evidence that the observed changes correlate to adverse health outcomes? How might this relate to natural variations in aortic tissue structure within the rats themselves, without ayahuasca?
Best keep the ayahuasca to ourselves, perhaps...
It’s at least clear that rats should not drink Aya all the time, I don’t have a good answer to your questions yet, and share many of the same. So far I have been doing some reading on the more negative aspects of our hobby and next to drug induced psychosis it all seems to revolve around the hart. I was hoping to compile a reading list on the subject before the summer but as with many things it’s slipping away into the future.
So far what I’ve read has to do with consistent use over longer periods and seems to be correlated to hart issues, I’m not a pathologist or medical professional so it’s hard to really judge the implications of these issues. Nor does the research that points to these adverse health effects have any follow up on recovery.
Anyway hopefully in the future I will be able to get a reading list or somewhat coherent summary on the subject in a dedicated post.
So far what I’ve read has to do with consistent use over longer periods and seems to be correlated to hart issues, I’m not a pathologist or medical professional so it’s hard to really judge the implications of these issues. Nor does the research that points to these adverse health effects have any follow up on recovery.
Anyway hopefully in the future I will be able to get a reading list or somewhat coherent summary on the subject in a dedicated post.
Sabnock1990
Be Your Own Shaman
I may not be a rat but i consumed the stuff daily/near daily for 4 years straight, so, whatever happens, happens, i guess lol. Just keep in mind though, if i should ever come down with some sort of heart condition, other factors should be accounted for, like my smoking, and me lacking Folate and B12 and some other things for years and years (which would be the most likely to cause some issues imo). I always felt healthy taking it though, saw/felt no issue with it. With that said, there's also the potential for having things in the mix with Aya that could help to reduce/mitigate potential risks, and imo that's worth digging into and finding some good herbal/supplemental admixtures to help protect the heart, liver, kidneys, all that, because for Ayahuasca being pretty much the only full on Psychedelic with no tolerance and you can dive in whenever for however long, it would be a shame if consistent consumption caused some sort of issue. Although there was a study awhile back about regular Aya consumers and they were in good health with no issues as far as i remember, but there may be a difference between regular meaning say once a week or once a month or so vs daily/near daily. I can maybe see DMT causing some physiological stress responses for sure, but idk how that may impact the heart. Overall i feel like Ayahuasca is healthy, and if i should die doing what i love, then so be it lol, it's the only real thing in this world as far as i can see. Granted, my regular consumption was years ago, and i'm doing just fine these days, and i probably wouldn't recommend someone to take this stuff for years like i did lol, but i don't think some regular exploration would cause issues, and one can always pace themselves, spread things out a bit rather than taking it everyday, even though it's common for people to take it consecutively for a few days or so in ceremonies. I haven't really come across anything about physiological dangers/risks in Humans, so hopefully this is just isolated to rats, rats and Humans do have some differences and what may affect rats in one way may not affect us in the same way. More study is needed imo.
The notion that plants have nothing to say or are not meant for rats is lacking in argument and logic. Using animal models is a common practice in pharmacology and is used to gain understanding of pharmacological effects in animals and use that to predict effects in humans. You might want to consider that your logic is flawed
.He you’re right that animal models can’t necessarily be extrapolated to humans, and with you, and every other human, it’s probably going to be mix of factors that leads to the end of life. The thing with heart disease is that it’s very serious and presents itself usually late in life, far after the fact, the amount of factors involved at that point make it impossible to know what caused the illness. Also it’s unclear if the effects of these studies are reversible or partially reversible, the heart is to a certain extent capable of healing with a healthy lifestyle.
I personally have taken Aya now for over two decades and, like you, have not experienced any ill effects other then a sore throat at times. That does however not mean that it didn’t do any harm. Like with smoking it takes decades to develop one or more of the horrible diseases associated with it and it could be that some psychedelic drugs will cause adverse effects aswel. Especially when consumed at the rate some of us do, me included, at this point we just don’t know and I think it’s very important to be aware of research that is done that is not subscribing to the idea that psychedelics are physically benign.
I understand that some of you out there don’t want to be confronted with the idea that psychedelics can be harmful, me at times included, I do however believe that it’s always better to be informed even when it is not something we wished for.
Not really…
It might be worth a try to really put some thought into it and write a proper response where you elaborate on your thinking. I mean I would then be happy to have a constructive discussion on the subject with the goal of shared learning from each others perspectives. Now that your thoughts on the subject are missing you move towards the arena of nonsensical statements that lead nowhere.
Thank you very much for sharing this. I wonder if MAOs are protective and that by adding MAOI we override this protective system?
Traditional ayahuasceros appear to live healthy long lives. Just one example is Taita Querubin who recently passed away over the age of 100.
Mechanism
Established member
Is ayahuascero another name for shaman? Isn't it true that shamans tend to drink daily for prolonged periods?
Skimming through the article, the effects seem to be mild to moderate. The question to me is that since it "alters structural parameters", is the effect reversed after a time or is it permanent to a degree.
Only partially, in that the term "shaman" stems from the Tungus languages of eastern Siberia, where, it woulg be safe to assume, they never used ayahuasca in their traditional practices, just as any of the dozens of different social groups in the Amazon basin who may use ayahuasca in its various forms might not even refer to it by that name, nor will they ever have heard the term "shaman".
Shamanism is a collection of techniques, found in various permutations the world over, whereby practitioners the world over travel to and attempt to bargain with the spirit world to various practical ends. Numerous publications go into further detail on these matters.
Ayahuasqueros undergo a period of training, usually refered to as "dieta" in our circles, whereby various plant concoctions including, but not restricted to, ayahuasca are consumed for periods of weeks or months.
This does not mean that an ayahuasquero is obliged to drink ayahusca daily for the rest of their life, but maybe some do, I don't know. More likely, they'll smoke tobacco throughout the day. There's plenty of literature on all this stuff, too.
Mechanism
Established member
Cool! I take it you're an ayahuascero then? Does anything on the grapevine cause you any concern about long term health effects? Specifically people dropping out of the practice due to health issues. It obviously wasn't a problem for Taita Querubin, but he might be an exception just like people who chain smoke into their 80s.
No, I am not. Apologies for the ambiguity. "Our circles" was intended to included those who discuss psychonautics on the internet, and those actively engage in ethnobotanical practice, as two overlapping and sometimes commingling sets.Cool! I take it you're an ayahuascero then? Does anything on the grapevine cause you any concern about long term health effects? Specifically people dropping out of the practice due to health issues. It obviously wasn't a problem for Taita Querubin, but he might be an exception just like people who chain smoke into their 80s.
Nor am I that big of a "grapeviney" person, truth be told. However, a number of epidemiological studies suggest that regular users of ayahuasca generally enjoy excellent health. We cannot exclude selection bias in this result, or I would like to see how the researchers attempted to do so.
There are many studies that show positive or neutral health outcomes, most I have read though are plagued with small sample size and lack of double blind testing, and filled with self reported health outcomes. At this time there is no well documented clinical research that looks at long term health outcomes. However, next to mental health problems, there are pointers that suggest effects on the heart, at this time it is just not known what the implications are for casual, incidental use.Cool! I take it you're an ayahuascero then? Does anything on the grapevine cause you any concern about long term health effects? Specifically people dropping out of the practice due to health issues. It obviously wasn't a problem for Taita Querubin, but he might be an exception just like people who chain smoke into their 80s.
Probably a lot better than regularly drinking a similar amount of vodka, I'd hazard a guess.
🌺🔥🫧
Fire
I'm literally a barista.
F Y I
lol, but still!
@Varallo if you wish to 'counteract' these structural changes of the peripheral and central vascular system, you could perhaps look into taking up weight training or a little power lifting as a way to re-thicken(strengthen, stiffen) those vessels. I think in the scientific literature of this topic might be able to confim this.
~
also,
~
I don't know your scientific orientation, as in, whether you yourself are a scientist of this or that field whatever, or dedicated lay reader, or what, but for me, coming from a non-professional background (albeit pharmacological & neurobiological lay-readership, not cardiovascular at all though!), a research article like this leaves MANY MANY open questions. I don't have enough expertise in these matters to even begin understanding the basis and context of this research article, nor approve, or fully understand the conclusion.
I see it as more of a statement or conclusion, than a deep investigatory analysis of it's own, as it's insight is only a small additional detail on top of many other scientific insights from which it draws and is dependent upon. The integrity of this insight, or what the heck even, is difficult to assess without really percieving into the nature of the scientific grounds upon which it is built. I am not in THE DISCUSSION, of this scientific circle. There is a huge rift between me and these scientists. I can only TRUST in them. My level of discernment on the matter is not evem remotely capable of critical analysis. This is important because I believe many of us do truly share this position to some extent, as most of us reading this and passing it around will not be the professionals. Yet we also mis-interpret them, and the context in which they say things. We run away with conclusions. Even the research articles can run away with conclusions, especially when pressured to produce some specific, super hyper extremensively distilled conclusion creating a singularity of causality, when in reality everything affects everything in one way or another in a complex ecosystem, where there is never binary, only quantum planes of colorful dynamic complexity xD (jk)
that being said, I would love to get into this, just for fun and because i care. It's a very complex matter! I share your passion for these beautiful magical substances and love to see the culture of science elaborate upon them.
However personally, colloquially, non-professionally, I am just left with so many questions after having read this.
- First of all, the physiological history of the rats I would like to know more about. What is this baseline, against which we are contrasting our results? I just, would like to know more about the baseline, of these rats.
- I would also like to know more about the preparation and delivery methods of the 4 types administration they performed. Did i miss something? or was this ayahuasca in some sort of dropper bottle? iv? did they use isolate or full spectrum brew?
- I would like to know why they also chose to administer it the way they did (acute and 'chronic'). The "Drug" and "Experimental Procedure" paragraphs are extremely short. Maybe i'm mising something as again, i'm NOT a scientist, but the Experimental Procedure section is just so extremely crazy short with no references or mentions of any of the details. They must literally be omitting everything as implication or standard procedure, as this is intended for professional discourse. As such, I do not know what (or how anything what even the heknuggets) this route of administration for acute and 'chronic' (14 days only) was executed in more exact details.
(ranting, 2 paragraphs)
like, the way the body adapts to CHRONIC MAOI inhbition changes after a day, a week, month, two or three months. This is more of a topic apparent in psychiatric discourse, which deals with 'chronicness' a lot. However it is my personal understanding that anything chronic, IN GENERAL, is just, toxic. Ayahuasca is not a chronic anything. Not a chronic phenonmen, experience, metabolically not chronic etc. Even in daily use there is an ebb and flow. This is relevant to not only neurotransmitter balances, but also hormonal balances, and just, everything. the whole darn everything. we are talking MAOI which affects so many systems, which in turn affect systems. For instance, MAOI inhibits the metabolism of adrenaline/epinephrine, which affects muscular tone. Typically these neurotransmitters(actually a hormone as well) are a very 'spiky' and dynamic phenomena, not flood. I literally cannot even gather my questions and thoughts here. MAOI, especially chronic administration effects so many things, some of which the body adapts to more rapidly than others, like chronically elevated serotonin.
Chronic is never a peak dose either. Also peak doses are perhaps maximally active only 8hours long, within a 24 hour day, and *special note, the MAOI is only really present for 12-18 hours or so in the unsaturated body. Only of the thigns i'm saying here right now is that, the typical conditions of engagement with ayahuasca on an extreme level might be, on average like, one strong trip a day, habitually, which is NOT chronic. That is NOT the same as chronic administration over 24 hours, like you might see in a drip, or medications engineered to release stable levels of drug over a 24 hour period at 12 or 8 hour administration intervals. having one flood dose within every 24 hours, of which perhaps, the following 8 hours after the peak 8 hours your body is still affected, and then the last 8 hours of the 24 hour window your body is fully balanced out with respect to DMT and already mostly metabolizing away a lot fo the MAOI ~ makes a huge difference.
It's the same difference as blasting off on 40mg of DMT every hour, vs doing a steady drip of 40mg DMT/hr. they are completely different just... so different, i cannot begin.
-First exposure reactions and adaptations to Ayahuasca is very different from habitual exposure. Like, the first time you work out in the weights gym ever vs daily gym goer.
- Why were 2 weeks of time for investigating the cardiac slides chosen, one week? 1 month? 3 months? what is so critical about analyzing the tissues at exactly 2 weeks? How was that decision made, as opposed to having 500 rats and investigating their herts/vasculature across various dosing reigmens and across time. what would a 1 week or 3 month acute or chronically dosed heart look like. Isn't that trajectory or evolution relevant? I find especially with chronic phenomena, and especially those concerning elasticity, that longer timescales also matter as collagen in general in the body operates adaptationally on longer time scales.
-Is this the rats FIRST time encountering ayahuasca or tryptamines in general? what is the adaptation process of the body when exposed to these molecules FOR THE FIRST TIME. Just because you break muscles after a workout does not mean workouts make you weaker. Just because you have inflammation does not mean your are not healing. etc! the body is highly dynamic about these things. For example, for the longest time it seems to me that we understood inflammation to be just... BAD ~ whereas now our better understanding is that of a signaling process telling the body where to heal, for instance. There is a dynamic web of causality across systems and time to be aware of. What you see in one instance is not the whole story.
-I cannot emphasize enough how absolutely UNREALISTIC it is to administer drugs in this extremely stable chronic fashion, and call it anything similar to ayahausca. What is up with science and chronic administration. ayahuasca is not chronically administered. The topic of research is AYAHUASCA, not 'how do MAOI alkalids and dmt' damage vasculature when administred in a toxic way. ayahuasca is also a PHARMOKINETICKK phenomenon, psychichally as well as physically experienced. These details matter...
-how could incraesed vagal tone after ayahuasca administration be affecting this experiment? How could altered adrenal, cortisol, and dopamine levels be affecting the muscles? we know that all these neurotransmitters are deeply involved with muscles in general, and all are affected when talking about ayahuasca, or 'ayahuasca'.
-this is the moment where you read not only the research article, but if you are not IN the scientific discourse, you also need to read literally all these references to cardiology and whatnot to even have a context within which to even start understanding anything, or drawing conclusions.
Just FYI this barista is severely lacking in any vascular scientific knowelge, which is acutally a more central topic to this article than even the fact that ayahuasca is being studied, as we are talking about ayhuasca's effect on the HEART (& vasculature in general), for which you must know a lot about the heart, which I do not. I am also not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination.
Title:
"Ayahuasca Alters Structural Parameters of the Rat Aorta"
what the heck even,
my puppy is calling me
mush love!
F Y I
lol, but still!
@Varallo if you wish to 'counteract' these structural changes of the peripheral and central vascular system, you could perhaps look into taking up weight training or a little power lifting as a way to re-thicken(strengthen, stiffen) those vessels. I think in the scientific literature of this topic might be able to confim this.
~
also,
~
I don't know your scientific orientation, as in, whether you yourself are a scientist of this or that field whatever, or dedicated lay reader, or what, but for me, coming from a non-professional background (albeit pharmacological & neurobiological lay-readership, not cardiovascular at all though!), a research article like this leaves MANY MANY open questions. I don't have enough expertise in these matters to even begin understanding the basis and context of this research article, nor approve, or fully understand the conclusion.
I see it as more of a statement or conclusion, than a deep investigatory analysis of it's own, as it's insight is only a small additional detail on top of many other scientific insights from which it draws and is dependent upon. The integrity of this insight, or what the heck even, is difficult to assess without really percieving into the nature of the scientific grounds upon which it is built. I am not in THE DISCUSSION, of this scientific circle. There is a huge rift between me and these scientists. I can only TRUST in them. My level of discernment on the matter is not evem remotely capable of critical analysis. This is important because I believe many of us do truly share this position to some extent, as most of us reading this and passing it around will not be the professionals. Yet we also mis-interpret them, and the context in which they say things. We run away with conclusions. Even the research articles can run away with conclusions, especially when pressured to produce some specific, super hyper extremensively distilled conclusion creating a singularity of causality, when in reality everything affects everything in one way or another in a complex ecosystem, where there is never binary, only quantum planes of colorful dynamic complexity xD (jk)
that being said, I would love to get into this, just for fun and because i care. It's a very complex matter! I share your passion for these beautiful magical substances and love to see the culture of science elaborate upon them.
However personally, colloquially, non-professionally, I am just left with so many questions after having read this.
- First of all, the physiological history of the rats I would like to know more about. What is this baseline, against which we are contrasting our results? I just, would like to know more about the baseline, of these rats.
- I would also like to know more about the preparation and delivery methods of the 4 types administration they performed. Did i miss something? or was this ayahuasca in some sort of dropper bottle? iv? did they use isolate or full spectrum brew?
- I would like to know why they also chose to administer it the way they did (acute and 'chronic'). The "Drug" and "Experimental Procedure" paragraphs are extremely short. Maybe i'm mising something as again, i'm NOT a scientist, but the Experimental Procedure section is just so extremely crazy short with no references or mentions of any of the details. They must literally be omitting everything as implication or standard procedure, as this is intended for professional discourse. As such, I do not know what (or how anything what even the heknuggets) this route of administration for acute and 'chronic' (14 days only) was executed in more exact details.
(ranting, 2 paragraphs)
like, the way the body adapts to CHRONIC MAOI inhbition changes after a day, a week, month, two or three months. This is more of a topic apparent in psychiatric discourse, which deals with 'chronicness' a lot. However it is my personal understanding that anything chronic, IN GENERAL, is just, toxic. Ayahuasca is not a chronic anything. Not a chronic phenonmen, experience, metabolically not chronic etc. Even in daily use there is an ebb and flow. This is relevant to not only neurotransmitter balances, but also hormonal balances, and just, everything. the whole darn everything. we are talking MAOI which affects so many systems, which in turn affect systems. For instance, MAOI inhibits the metabolism of adrenaline/epinephrine, which affects muscular tone. Typically these neurotransmitters(actually a hormone as well) are a very 'spiky' and dynamic phenomena, not flood. I literally cannot even gather my questions and thoughts here. MAOI, especially chronic administration effects so many things, some of which the body adapts to more rapidly than others, like chronically elevated serotonin.
Chronic is never a peak dose either. Also peak doses are perhaps maximally active only 8hours long, within a 24 hour day, and *special note, the MAOI is only really present for 12-18 hours or so in the unsaturated body. Only of the thigns i'm saying here right now is that, the typical conditions of engagement with ayahuasca on an extreme level might be, on average like, one strong trip a day, habitually, which is NOT chronic. That is NOT the same as chronic administration over 24 hours, like you might see in a drip, or medications engineered to release stable levels of drug over a 24 hour period at 12 or 8 hour administration intervals. having one flood dose within every 24 hours, of which perhaps, the following 8 hours after the peak 8 hours your body is still affected, and then the last 8 hours of the 24 hour window your body is fully balanced out with respect to DMT and already mostly metabolizing away a lot fo the MAOI ~ makes a huge difference.
It's the same difference as blasting off on 40mg of DMT every hour, vs doing a steady drip of 40mg DMT/hr. they are completely different just... so different, i cannot begin.
-First exposure reactions and adaptations to Ayahuasca is very different from habitual exposure. Like, the first time you work out in the weights gym ever vs daily gym goer.
- Why were 2 weeks of time for investigating the cardiac slides chosen, one week? 1 month? 3 months? what is so critical about analyzing the tissues at exactly 2 weeks? How was that decision made, as opposed to having 500 rats and investigating their herts/vasculature across various dosing reigmens and across time. what would a 1 week or 3 month acute or chronically dosed heart look like. Isn't that trajectory or evolution relevant? I find especially with chronic phenomena, and especially those concerning elasticity, that longer timescales also matter as collagen in general in the body operates adaptationally on longer time scales.
-Is this the rats FIRST time encountering ayahuasca or tryptamines in general? what is the adaptation process of the body when exposed to these molecules FOR THE FIRST TIME. Just because you break muscles after a workout does not mean workouts make you weaker. Just because you have inflammation does not mean your are not healing. etc! the body is highly dynamic about these things. For example, for the longest time it seems to me that we understood inflammation to be just... BAD ~ whereas now our better understanding is that of a signaling process telling the body where to heal, for instance. There is a dynamic web of causality across systems and time to be aware of. What you see in one instance is not the whole story.
-I cannot emphasize enough how absolutely UNREALISTIC it is to administer drugs in this extremely stable chronic fashion, and call it anything similar to ayahausca. What is up with science and chronic administration. ayahuasca is not chronically administered. The topic of research is AYAHUASCA, not 'how do MAOI alkalids and dmt' damage vasculature when administred in a toxic way. ayahuasca is also a PHARMOKINETICKK phenomenon, psychichally as well as physically experienced. These details matter...
-how could incraesed vagal tone after ayahuasca administration be affecting this experiment? How could altered adrenal, cortisol, and dopamine levels be affecting the muscles? we know that all these neurotransmitters are deeply involved with muscles in general, and all are affected when talking about ayahuasca, or 'ayahuasca'.
-this is the moment where you read not only the research article, but if you are not IN the scientific discourse, you also need to read literally all these references to cardiology and whatnot to even have a context within which to even start understanding anything, or drawing conclusions.
Just FYI this barista is severely lacking in any vascular scientific knowelge, which is acutally a more central topic to this article than even the fact that ayahuasca is being studied, as we are talking about ayhuasca's effect on the HEART (& vasculature in general), for which you must know a lot about the heart, which I do not. I am also not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination.
Title:
"Ayahuasca Alters Structural Parameters of the Rat Aorta"
what the heck even,
my puppy is calling me
mush love!
Last edited:
You're way more of a scientist than you give yourself credit, especially if your next move is to start researching answers to some of the great questions you've raised.I'm literally a barista.
F Y I
lol, but still!
@Varallo if you wish to 'counteract' these structural changes of the peripheral and central vascular system, you could perhaps look into taking up weight training or a little power lifting as a way to re-thicken(strengthen, stiffen) those vessels. I think in the scientific literature of this topic might be able to confim this.
~
also,
~
I don't know your scientific orientation, as in, whether you yourself are a scientist of this or that field whatever, or dedicated lay reader, or what, but for me, coming from a non-professional background (albeit pharmacological & neurobiological lay-readership, not cardiovascular at all though!), a research article like this leaves MANY MANY open questions. I don't have enough expertise in these matters to even begin understanding the basis and context of this research article, nor approve, or fully understand the conclusion.
I see it as more of a statement or conclusion, than a deep investigatory analysis of it's own, as it's insight is only a small additional detail on top of many other scientific insights from which it draws and is dependent upon. The integrity of this insight, or what the heck even, is difficult to assess without really percieving into the nature of the scientific grounds upon which it is built. I am not in THE DISCUSSION, of this scientific circle. There is a huge rift between me and these scientists. I can only TRUST in them. My level of discernment on the matter is not evem remotely capable of critical analysis. This is important because I believe many of us do truly share this position to some extent, as most of us reading this and passing it around will not be the professionals. Yet we also mis-interpret them, and the context in which they say things. We run away with conclusions. Even the research articles can run away with conclusions, especially when pressured to produce some specific, super hyper extremensively distilled conclusion creating a singularity of causality, when in reality everything affects everything in one way or another in a complex ecosystem, where there is never binary, only quantum planes of colorful dynamic complexity xD (jk)
that being said, I would love to get into this, just for fun and because i care. It's a very complex matter! I share your passion for these beautiful magical substances and love to see the culture of science elaborate upon them.
However personally, colloquially, non-professionally, I am just left with so many questions after having read this.
- First of all, the physiological history of the rats I would like to know more about. What is this baseline, against which we are contrasting our results? I just, would like to know more about the baseline, of these rats.
- I would also like to know more about the preparation and delivery methods of the 4 types administration they performed. Did i miss something? or was this ayahuasca in some sort of dropper bottle? iv? did they use isolate or full spectrum brew?
- I would like to know why they also chose to administer it the way they did (acute and 'chronic'). The "Drug" and "Experimental Procedure" paragraphs are extremely short. Maybe i'm mising something as again, i'm NOT a scientist, but the Experimental Procedure section is just so extremely crazy short with no references or mentions of any of the details. They must literally be omitting everything as implication or standard procedure, as this is intended for professional discourse. As such, I do not know what (or how anything what even the heknuggets) this route of administration for acute and 'chronic' (14 days only) was executed in more exact details.
(ranting, 2 paragraphs)
like, the way the body adapts to CHRONIC MAOI inhbition changes after a day, a week, month, two or three months. This is more of a topic apparent in psychiatric discourse, which deals with 'chronicness' a lot. However it is my personal understanding that anything chronic, IN GENERAL, is just, toxic. Ayahuasca is not a chronic anything. Not a chronic phenonmen, experience, metabolically not chronic etc. Even in daily use there is an ebb and flow. This is relevant to not only neurotransmitter balances, but also hormonal balances, and just, everything. the whole darn everything. we are talking MAOI which affects so many systems, which in turn affect systems. For instance, MAOI inhibits the metabolism of adrenaline/epinephrine, which affects muscular tone. Typically these neurotransmitters(actually a hormone as well) are a very 'spiky' and dynamic phenomena, not flood. I literally cannot even gather my questions and thoughts here. MAOI, especially chronic administration effects so many things, some of which the body adapts to more rapidly than others, like chronically elevated serotonin.
Chronic is never a peak dose either. Also peak doses are perhaps maximally active only 8hours long, within a 24 hour day, and *special note, the MAOI is only really present for 12-18 hours or so in the unsaturated body. Only of the thigns i'm saying here right now is that, the typical conditions of engagement with ayahuasca on an extreme level might be, on average like, one strong trip a day, habitually, which is NOT chronic. That is NOT the same as chronic administration over 24 hours, like you might see in a drip, or medications engineered to release stable levels of drug over a 24 hour period at 12 or 8 hour administration intervals. having one flood dose within every 24 hours, of which perhaps, the following 8 hours after the peak 8 hours your body is still affected, and then the last 8 hours of the 24 hour window your body is fully balanced out with respect to DMT and already mostly metabolizing away a lot fo the MAOI ~ makes a huge difference.
It's the same difference as blasting off on 40mg of DMT every hour, vs doing a steady drip of 40mg DMT/hr. they are completely different just... so different, i cannot begin.
-First exposure reactions and adaptations to Ayahuasca is very different from habitual exposure. Like, the first time you work out in the weights gym ever vs daily gym goer.
- Why were 2 weeks of time for investigating the cardiac slides chosen, one week? 1 month? 3 months? what is so critical about analyzing the tissues at exactly 2 weeks? How was that decision made, as opposed to having 500 rats and investigating their herts/vasculature across various dosing reigmens and across time. what would a 1 week or 3 month acute or chronically dosed heart look like. Isn't that trajectory or evolution relevant? I find especially with chronic phenomena, and especially those concerning elasticity, that longer timescales also matter as collagen in general in the body operates adaptationally on longer time scales.
-Is this the rats FIRST time encountering ayahuasca or tryptamines in general? what is the adaptation process of the body when exposed to these molecules. Just because you break muscles after a workout does not mean workouts make you weaker. Just because you have inflammation does not mean your are not healing. etc! the body is highly dynamic about these things. For the longest time it seems to me that we understood inflammation to be just... BAD ~ whereas now our better understanding is that of a signaling process telling the body where to heal, for instance.
-How migth other effects of the ayahuasca administration effect the rats?
-I cannot emphasize enough how absolutely UNREALISTIC it is to administer drugs in this extremely stable chronic fashion, and call it anything similar to ayahausca. What is up with science and chronic administration. ayahuasca is not chronically administered. The topic of research is AYAHUASCA, not 'how do MAOI alkalids and dmt' damage vasculature. ayahuasca is also a pharmokinetic entity.
-how could incraesed vagal tone after ayahuasca administration be affecting this experiment. How could altered adrenal, cortisol, and dopamine levels be affecting the muscles?
-this is the moment where you read not only the research article, but if you are not IN the scientific discourse, you also need to read literally all these references to cardiology and whatnot to even have a context.
Just FYI this barista is severely lacking in any vascular scientific knowelge, which is acutally a more central topic to this article than even the fact that ayahuasca is being studied.
Title:
"Ayahuasca Alters Structural Parameters of the Rat Aorta"
what the heck even,
my puppy is calling me
mush love!
For cardiovascular support, I personally swear by hawthorn preparations. They really work.