ayahuasca used for war

[dankh]

I'm fascinated that the theme of our modern day psychedelic experience is an awakening, of one-ness, of love and kinship while the history of shamanic uses for guidance would include war.

I can't seem to reconcile those differences. It doesn't add up.

There is something different in this consciousness.

It is my belief that we have evolved, grown, our boundaries have expanded and while I respect our ancestors I question their wisdom on the grand scale. That applies to us and our revelations as well which, when considering "knowing what we don't know", means only much more profound human existences await us.

If democracy, peace, and understanding are of higher creeds than slavery, war, and territory then I have to argue on the matter of the shaman's isolated existence.

 

[dankh]

Many shamanic beliefs are wrong or downright dangerous. I don't see why people take everything that has the word "shamanism" put in front of it and think its automatically a good thing.

Shamanism in some form or another has played an important role in the development of all human cultures. But just like ALL human cultures there are good and bad parts.

Unless you're a monk. Those guys don't even need alkaloids and as far as I know I've never heard of a single Buddhist sect that became territorial or waged religious conquest.

 

[amor_fati]

Many shamanic beliefs are wrong or downright dangerous. I don't see why people take everything that has the word "shamanism" put in front of it and think its automatically a good thing.

Shamanism in some form or another has played an important role in the development of all human cultures. But just like ALL human cultures there are good and bad parts.

Very true, but my sentiments are largely the other way around. It's precisely the the historical inconsistencies with modern new-age sentiments that make all the more appealing interesting for me. What I can't say is whether these more brutal elements are necessarily bad or evil, it really depends manner of moralistic approach. Certainly superstitions are often another matter, but they can sometimes simply be inaccurate expressions of pertinent observations

It is my belief that we have evolved, grown, our boundaries have expanded and while I respect our ancestors I question their wisdom on the grand scale. That applies to us and our revelations as well which, when considering "knowing what we don't know", means only much more profound human existences await us.

Most certainly. Our ancestors, more often than not, prove an embarrassment, but our follies often amplify their own. However, history often notes instances which exemplify values that I would contend exceed those common to our modern age, though these most often occur as exceptions and unwittingly, at that. Our greatest advantage and greatest curse in contrast to our ancestors is the ability to look back--however limitedly--with the discernment enabled by time and distance. Our follies, especially when identical to our ancestors'--are greater in consideration of our negligence and ignorance with such a body of information at our disposal, but our achievements may reach far greater heights, facilitated by the legacy of our ancestors.

Unless you're a monk. Those guys don't even need alkaloids and as far as I know I've never heard of a single Buddhist sect that became territorial or waged religious conquest.

The Tibetan Buddhists essentially conquered/converted Tibet by sending lamas out into the villages to act as shamans while preaching the ways of their form of Buddhism. They seized position as the governing body of the land; I feel that in many ways this is a good model for establishing rule of reason and civility, but their failures in fending of the Chinese invaders during the cultural revolution (for the lama's sake, as well as that of their subjects) betrays critical flaws in their methods, unless they intended to become as martyrs. Imagine if they had taken on a more martial aspect--such as that embraced by the Shao-lin or the Wudang or even the various warrior priests of Japan--and allied themselves more closely with the bandit rebels still opposing Chinese rule in Tibet. I imagine that their struggle would evoke a much more meaningful and rousing sentiment than pity.

 

[shoe]

I'm fascinated that the theme of our modern day psychedelic experience is an awakening, of one-ness, of love and kinship while the history of shamanic uses for guidance would include war.

I can't seem to reconcile those differences. It doesn't add up.

what does that say dankh? This current paradigm we are in, whatever it be called (I don't even think its 'new agers') is beyond shamanism!

 

[dankh]

It's their way of living. Who are you to judge that? Wouldn't this imply, that you value your culture higher? Well, this is something every culture seems to inherit: The feeling of beeing superior, knowing "what's best", beeing "human".

You say that this behaviour is insane. Who told you, that ratio is the ultima ratio ...do you see the irony?

Of course not. That's like saying there is no place in educating our childrens' ignorant ideologies, regardless of how innocent or destructive they may be. "Democracy", for example, would be one of those key elements in a healthy environment that would encourage a child to be respectful, understanding, openminded, and learn the value of deliberation as opposed to "I HAVE GUNS, YOU DO WHAT I SAY."

 

[jamie]

I'm fascinated that the theme of our modern day psychedelic experience is an awakening, of one-ness, of love and kinship while the history of shamanic uses for guidance would include war.

I can't seem to reconcile those differences. It doesn't add up.

what does that say dankh? This current paradigm we are in, whatever it be called (I don't even think its 'new agers') is beyond shamanism!

Thats how I see it. These are some special times.