Ayahuasca vs Analogue (effects)

[maranello551]

Swim was making anahuasca with rue and acacia but last time he used mushrooms he felt them telling him to stop using rue and start using vine.

So no more rue. I'm almost sure of. SWIM has about 22g of Acacia root bark left and after he runs out he, was wondering if he should stick with this acacia (which has ben successful 50% of the time in delivering noteworthy experiences), or switch over to either Chacruna or Chaliponga, or perhaps both.

1. Could you guys tell me how you think the maoi switch would affect things if swim kept using acacia?

2 Could you tell SWIM how switching from his original style brew to a brew of Caapi and chacruna/chaliponga/both would be different?

 

[maranello551]

Nobody has experience with different styles of oral dmt brews?

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Nobody has experience with different styles of oral dmt brews?

This is a slow forum, the person that might have the answer for you might not log in for another couple of days.

You have to be patient for Q&A on this forum.

 

[jamie]

Nobody has experience with different styles of oral dmt brews?

Sure, but you should try them and find out for yourself. I prefer rue and mimosa to traditional ayahuasca, after starting out drinking only ayahuasca. This does not seem to be a common preference for most people here.

 

[maranello551]

Nobody has experience with different styles of oral dmt brews?

Sure, but you should try them and find out for yourself. I prefer rue and mimosa to traditional ayahuasca, after starting out drinking only ayahuasca. This does not seem to be a common preference for most people here.

I agree with this, but at the same time, there are so many options that I'd rather know the "consensus" differences between them as to have some sort of idea regarding which I believe would be right for me and consequently which I'd rather get into next.

 

[maranello551]

Rue feels somewhat toxic to me and I hear from many that caapi feels less so. I also hear that one can safely take high doses of caapi, whereas high doses of rue make many ill. To what extent is this true? Could one take 250-500g of caapi without dangerous effects?

If so, and if it does indeed provide a "fuller" experience compared to rue (if any of you disagree, I'd love to hear what your views on what rue can provide in terms of entheogenic effects that caapi does not), then I would love to make the switch to rue. I hear it feels more "alien" and "of a higher vibration".

In terms of light source, mimosa swim has tried once to no avail. Acacia 4-5 times with only 2 being successful (both times with just under 3g of rue). He would like to know how chacruna and chaliponga compare to each other..and if the differences between the two change (say if one takes {chacruna with rue} and {chali with rue} there will be differences I assume...will they be the same differences as there would be between {chacruna and caapi} and {chali and caapi}

So..
1. Is caapi less toxic and what doses can it be used up to and still remain physically safe

2. How is the caapi experience different from the rue experience when using the same light source

3. How are the various light sources different when using the same MAOI source

4. Do combining maoi's and/or light sources simply stack their effects or do the effects change completely?


I will try next the combination that from these forum post answers I believe I would find most beneficial..

Thanks

 

[maranello551]

Anyone with lots of aya/anahuasca experience please?

Rue vs Caapi effects?

Acacia vs Chacruna vs Chaliponga (or any combination)?

Rue/Caapi synergy? (if rue is just good for maoi and doesn't have it's own "spirit" could I use a gram of rue or so with caapi to retain the caapi's "spirit" and potency while using less of it to save money?

 

[obliguhl]

I can't really speak with much experience, but why does everyone feel that rue is "toxic" has "no spirit" etc? I have a feeling that this is just regurgitated myth. The times i used rue tea or rue extracts, it never felt "toxic". Harmalas just make you nauseous and dizzy to a certain degree, that comes with the territory, no?

Why not run some tests yourself and see if it really is so bad. I sure do plan to try rue more often so i can come to my own conclusions.

And yes, of course you can mix caapi and rue...

 

[jamie]

I personally don't find rue more toxic feeling then caapi. In fact the most "toxic"(neither caapi or rue are in reality toxic at doses we are talking about) I have felt has been with vine. I find rue to be very clean and clear, somewhat more crisp in terms of visions than vine has been for me. Both are very visionary and dreamy at the right dose, both initiate purging. Rue does not make me dry heave without a purge or make purging harder than with vine like some people claim.

I don't find vine to produce a more full experience. Maybe drink more rue if that is what you find, or maybe caapi is just more of a teacher for you. Whatever.

I prefer mimosa as admixture, although I also really like chaliponga. Psychotria I have limited experience with and it was underwhelming. The sickness to signal ratio was heavy with psychotria viridis, perhaps due to the large ammount of leaf required.

Personally, my guess is that at least a portion of the perceived differences commonly described are due more to the stories we have to tell about these 2 plants, than they are due to the actual pharmacology. Banisteriopsis caapi has a long and rather well known tradition of ethnic use behind it, and IS ayahuasca. Peganum harmala is known to only few as Haoma, and while it has at least as rich a tradition of ethnic use going way back, the focus for many people is one that writes the character of Rue as a cheap alternative or analogue of Banisteriopsis caapi that lacks the lineage of amazonian traditions. I find it sad, that this is the story we have chosen to tell of this plant. It is a common story of linear reductionism, and a box we trap ourselves in. Mythology is important, becasue of the power it holds. It can guide us, or it can trap us..depending on the stories we tell and how we tell them.

For about two years I was once a week drinking brews that contained both vine and rue, with jurema and chaliponga as admixture with a very tiny pinch of mapacho.

 

[maranello551]

I personally don't find rue more toxic feeling then caapi. In fact the most "toxic"(neither caapi or rue are in reality toxic at doses we are talking about) I have felt has been with vine. I find rue to be very clean and clear, somewhat more crisp in terms of visions than vine has been for me. Both are very visionary and dreamy at the right dose, both initiate purging. Rue does not make me dry heave without a purge or make purging harder than with vine like some people claim.

I don't find vine to produce a more full experience. Maybe drink more rue if that is what you find, or maybe caapi is just more of a teacher for you. Whatever.

I prefer mimosa as admixture, although I also really like chaliponga. Psychotria I have limited experience with and it was underwhelming. The sickness to signal ratio was heavy with psychotria viridis, perhaps due to the large ammount of leaf required.

Personally, my guess is that at least a portion of the perceived differences commonly described are due more to the stories we have to tell about these 2 plants, than they are due to the actual pharmacology. Banisteriopsis caapi has a long and rather well known tradition of ethnic use behind it, and IS ayahuasca. Peganum harmala is known to only few as Haoma, and while it has at least as rich a tradition of ethnic use going way back, the focus for many people is one that writes the character of Rue as a cheap alternative or analogue of Banisteriopsis caapi that lacks the lineage of amazonian traditions. I find it sad, that this is the story we have chosen to tell of this plant. It is a common story of linear reductionism, and a box we trap ourselves in. Mythology is important, becasue of the power it holds. It can guide us, or it can trap us..depending on the stories we tell and how we tell them.

For about two years I was once a week drinking brews that contained both vine and rue, with jurema and chaliponga as admixture with a very tiny pinch of mapacho.

Interesting. I am currently using Acacia confuse and am a this point considering either switching over to chaliponga, or combining the two.

Couple more questions:

1. Why did you mix MAOI's? Did you find that using both gave a more complex experience or did you use the rue to boost the effects of the caapi (or vice-versa)?

2. What did the chaliponga add to the experience when used in combination with the juerma that juerma alone (obviously with a raised dose to compensate for the lack of the other admixture) did not bring, and what does including juerma provide that chaliponga alone (again with the dose upped) does not?

Sorry if my questions are annoying..I just like to know as much as I can about the new things I will be trying. While I ask, SWIM does still experiment with his acacia, rue, and occasionally mushrooms at the moment so he's not just asking and doing nothing else in case people were wondering.