deadhor5 said:
Welcome! Have you ever had ayahuasca with datura, or brugmansia in it? also known as hells bells, toe, angels trumpets, etc.? Do you know anything about why it is used so frequently by many shamans? what are your thoughts/opinions on this plant?
Hi!
No, I never tried this mixture, but close friends of mine had. This is a hot topic around here! I'll write down the things that I know about it:
There is a tradition around Toe in Peru/Brazil Amazon region among a few tribes, it is a known visionary add-on but I can affirm for use it's not a "common" additive, and it's not considered "plain" ayahuasca when it has Toe on it - it's something done on specific purposes. I've known a person that lived in a tribe that used a different plant for increasing visionary experiences, but the paje (shaman) there used it in very few occasions, and I believe it's the same case for toe. The plant toxicity is not unknown, and I believe this is the reason people don't play with it without a good reason.
Unfortunately I don't have the information on the specifics of its usage.
Another known thing is how hard it is to harvest quality caapi in the jungle; I don't know if anyone here ever done it, it's not for the faint of heart; one has to go up trees high as buildings with no safety harness of any kinds, and up there face fierce ants and wasps to disconnect the vine from the tree. It's not a job for the lazy, and remember that when you put your hands in a good caapi from the forest (you can plant it and make it grow on concrete poles - only concrete handles the weight - making things easier, but still has to nurture it from 5 to 7 years). So, it's a well known thing that when a scammer wants to trick gringoes into buying ayahuasca, he must provide something that works. This is the bad side of datura usage: to fool outsiders.
After harvesting, the preparation work is not easy as well, even if you have a good engine shredder.
One can brew very weak ayahuasca, using only the "rama" (thin stems from caapi that are easily harvested), and add some toe to it: the person will have a visionary experience and think he had "great ayahuasca", no complains.
So, there's a scamming culture around Toe right now in the Amazon basin. One can know he had toe by a few things: very cartoonish, colorful visions, dry mouth, difficult in vision, long duration, mental confusion.
But it gets worse:
The worst ayahuasca group in Brazil, called "Ceu da Nossa Senhora da Conceicao" uses secretly toe in their ayahuasca for some reasons;
The first is to make people think they have a supernaturally strong ayahuasca for spiritual reasons (they're cheating)
The second is to take advantage of the mental confusion to preach their beliefs against other ayahuasquero groups - the good old brain washing - not a CIA style brain washing, but brain washing nevertheless.
I have at least 2 close friends who took part on their rituals and felt the classic effects of toe, and knew the moment they drank it that it wasn't plain ayahuasca.
So, my personal opinion is that outside a serious and traditional use that puts a meaning to it, toe is not a good addition to ayahuasca and offers a very different experience - instead of clarifying one's life, makes it more confusing.
