-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
BASI DMT Benzoate Salting from Isopropanol
- Thread starter modern
- Start date
So that's mescaline benzoate, then? Enough for a test
Yea Idk if it would be enough to test on its own but with 200mg harmalas should even 80mg should have been enough. Weekend plansSo that's mescaline benzoate, then? Enough for a test
One more note all of the material I’ve been pulling from has been added to a lye water and pulled with xylene to see how effective it has been salted with hcl at excess to see if mescaline or other alkaloids remain. The yield is low but this is peruvianus that I didn’t have much hope for to start with.
Dmt citrate always forms a goo due to h20 in the air. Meacaline citrate is much more stable however.
Yea citrate works great with Ethyl acetate but with isopropanol since there is zero water it forms a goo. MAYBE after decanting the alcohol adding a drop or two of water then adding isopropanol again will form the monocitrate form the same as CIELO? I like benzoate though since weight isn't so far off HCL. Not that it matters much.
Strange because iso has reportedly worked very well to crystalise goo in the cielo tek.
With Cielo tek if too dry you get a hard some times red goo like I got here. The isopropanol is when there was slightly too much water. The hard goo needs a little water to hydrate with Cielo. So I think adding very very minimal water to the goo then reading isopropanol may get crystals but I’ll just go straight to Benzoate which is less steps
It might be useful to analyse such a goo since there were some hints that a more mescaline-rich type of citrate gets formed under anhydrous conditions [but I wouldn't want you to quote me on that definitively].
I remember reading something similar it would be 1-1 mescaline to citrate where most Cielo is 1-2 or 1-3 which causes those high doses for dosing which doesn’t matter much really.
The only interesting thing about the citrate goo is trying place on paper to dose eating the paper
Well, citric acid can, in principle, combine with up to three equivalents of mescaline. In an ideal CIELO procedure, a hydrated form of the 1:1 mescaline [dihydrogen] citrate hets produced, which is about the minimum amount of mescaline per citrate moiety. Because the solubility of citrate in EA decreases with lower amounts of water present, it could well be that the mescaline precipitates in the 2:1, or even the 3:1, form under low-moisture conditions.
Salts of polybasic organic acids with amines that contain a higher proportion of amine will have a partial tendency to interconvert between the protonated amine form and the proton moving back onto one of the carboxylic acid groups because of the greater overall charge on the citrate trianion making it more basic. This phenomenon would contribute greatly to the gooey nature of a 'higher' mescaline citrate, I feel. The tribasic citrate also bears some relationship to ionic liquids, except for the proton transfer bit.
Anyhow, yes, the hydrated monobasic citrate has a greater proportion of other stuff than mescaline compared to other salts like the hydrochloride or sulfate, so the mass of that salt required to provide a suitable dose of mescaline is correspondingly higher.
So after 4h from taking the 130mg benzoate salt and 200mg harmalas there is zero visuals and zero euphoria that I experienced with 50mg hcl and 200mg harmalas.
This is almost identical to my experience with 100mg non-mescaline alkaloids with the harmalas. The benzoate salt is 100% psychoactive causing lots of energy and alertness however not psychedelic. I also get very cold hands and feet and feel warm to the touch. Feel happy but not euphoria. I have had an issue with my peruvianus being bunk so I'll reattempt this in the future using a bridgesii. I'm culling all my peruvianus and only gonna use as grafting stocks with only 1 being active out of 5.
The salting did precipitate alkaloids and this shows it also pulls non-mescaline alkaloids IMO which I like. Obviously this is still subjective to me and others will need to confirm or test themselves. In a few months I'll reattempt this using bridgesii. Peruvianus have only caused me troubles but I do like the activity of energy with maoi. VERY nice clean energy.
This is almost identical to my experience with 100mg non-mescaline alkaloids with the harmalas. The benzoate salt is 100% psychoactive causing lots of energy and alertness however not psychedelic. I also get very cold hands and feet and feel warm to the touch. Feel happy but not euphoria. I have had an issue with my peruvianus being bunk so I'll reattempt this in the future using a bridgesii. I'm culling all my peruvianus and only gonna use as grafting stocks with only 1 being active out of 5.
The salting did precipitate alkaloids and this shows it also pulls non-mescaline alkaloids IMO which I like. Obviously this is still subjective to me and others will need to confirm or test themselves. In a few months I'll reattempt this using bridgesii. Peruvianus have only caused me troubles but I do like the activity of energy with maoi. VERY nice clean energy.
Just to follow up on the experience indeed it is exactly like my experience of non mescaline alkaloids. After 16h still had the constant alertness/energy and had issues sleeping. No crash the following day. Not mescaline for sure.
The kash I preformed on all the material after iso pulls and cookings yielded no mescaline. BUT there was likely little to none to start with. I wanted to see how effective the isopropanol pulls were but had no yeild.
I’ll reattempt this in the future with bridgesii. Someone willing to experiment they could take half the paste they would use for Cielo and dry it in the microwave. Run ethyl acetate and citric acid and the dry do isopropanol pulls and benzoic acid. They can use calcium hydroxide as normal to alkalinize since insoluble in isopropanol
Either convert the citric acid to benzoic acid or calculate the difference and test them. This way you can test based on started material for the extraction. Or even dry the material from the ethyl acetate pulls and pull with isopropanol afterwords and test the salt from that alone.
Isopropanol should salt out the other alkaloids and can more easily try to see if there is a difference in experiences. I’ll try this with bridgesii when I get around to it. Only have 300ml of ethyl acetate but should be fine since not gonna do 100g dry.
The kash I preformed on all the material after iso pulls and cookings yielded no mescaline. BUT there was likely little to none to start with. I wanted to see how effective the isopropanol pulls were but had no yeild.
I’ll reattempt this in the future with bridgesii. Someone willing to experiment they could take half the paste they would use for Cielo and dry it in the microwave. Run ethyl acetate and citric acid and the dry do isopropanol pulls and benzoic acid. They can use calcium hydroxide as normal to alkalinize since insoluble in isopropanol
Either convert the citric acid to benzoic acid or calculate the difference and test them. This way you can test based on started material for the extraction. Or even dry the material from the ethyl acetate pulls and pull with isopropanol afterwords and test the salt from that alone.
Isopropanol should salt out the other alkaloids and can more easily try to see if there is a difference in experiences. I’ll try this with bridgesii when I get around to it. Only have 300ml of ethyl acetate but should be fine since not gonna do 100g dry.
If you feel so strongly about it being other alkaloids maybe worth a lab test?
My bioassey is enough to confirm my own bias. As for a lab test I'm not very interested and cost prohibitive for me since in Brasil. I've read most don't even consider the 'impurities' of kash to be active but I've tried it 2x already and at 100mg hcl with harmalas they are active just not psychodelic. ZERO chance it is mescaline since there is no euphoria which even at 50mg mescaline hcl provided lots of euphoria. I evaporated the 'iso wash' of the kash hcl salts which is original material of the non-mescaline salts.
I eyeballed my bridgesii today but am gonna let it grow and only test around spring in 3-4 months. I'll be doing another DMT iso extraction using root bark some time next month. I'll do a small 10g batch and test the salt like I did with OP just to confirm since with psychotria the yield from my own plants were too small.
So over the next few days/weeks I'll be extracting from 45g mimosa inner rootbark manually shredded not powdered. I already placed enough saturated sodium carbonate solution to cover the plant material and will allow it to sit for a few days before placing on low heat to dry and microwave. I decided to do 2x isopropanol pulls and after will add to lye and do heptane pull to test efficacy. I'll test the benzoate salt once the time comes which at 18mg shows great activity.
I've read older posts showing solubility of dmt benzoate in isopropanol so I would think a different 'form' causes it to precipitate? Like dmt freebase + benzoic acid rather than dmt benzoate? I don't have enough understanding. I'll report back in a week or two once I get around to it.
I've read older posts showing solubility of dmt benzoate in isopropanol so I would think a different 'form' causes it to precipitate? Like dmt freebase + benzoic acid rather than dmt benzoate? I don't have enough understanding. I'll report back in a week or two once I get around to it.
Jan e Kharabat
Established member
DMT benzoate is likely sparingly soluble in IPA at room temperature, but soluble enough to not crash out. Freebase on the other hand is pretty much freely soluble. IPA can also be used to recrystallize DMT salts. I have actually attempted a recrystallization with IPA but with 5meo. Most of it crashed out. I evaped the rest of the IPA and was left with a small amount of goo which was active.
So I got around to testing the freeze precipitate from the OP. The freeze precipitate is indeed dmt benzoate based on the weight and effects produced at those levels. I don't have accurate scale to test the solubility of dmt benzoate in isopropanol but from 20mL I was about to precipitate an additional 30mg of salt. I'm unsure if there was more material dissolved in the solvent but assuming it was almost void 1.5-2mg/ml solubility at room temperature being able to recover that amount at -20C. There probably is more in the solvent BUT considering low solubility at room temp is should be quite low loss of yeild.
Jan e Kharabat
Established member
I'd suggest you evap the rest and find out! Assuming there is excess benzoic acid in there, you can evap, mix the residue with some sodium carbonate, moisten it, dry it, and pull with acetone and evap. You'll end up with goo, which can be solidified if left for long enough or smeared around a bit. Then you can measure the freebase and calculate the solubility of benzoate at minus 20 degrees.
So this method isn’t great for plant material particularly if not high quality material. My plant material is low yield like last time which I had around .1-.3% because mostly stem bark. I’ll be doing acid pull on all my bark and reducing it down to tar and trying from there. I’ll reuse current isopropanol.
Also realized the solubility of DMT Benzoate is likely low since I reused my isopropyl to precipitate my cactus I didn’t have a surprise dose from any previous DMT content.
I’ll probably only use this method when reducing tea to tar which helps have higher content and also requires less solvent to pull when compared to plant material.
Not practical method unless you only have access to isopropanol. I’ll probably abandon this and move onto my water only solvent idea.
Also realized the solubility of DMT Benzoate is likely low since I reused my isopropyl to precipitate my cactus I didn’t have a surprise dose from any previous DMT content.
I’ll probably only use this method when reducing tea to tar which helps have higher content and also requires less solvent to pull when compared to plant material.
Not practical method unless you only have access to isopropanol. I’ll probably abandon this and move onto my water only solvent idea.