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Benefits of OBE's & Meditation

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Bancopuma said:
Galantamine/choline wise, I have these same capsules, and for me personally they haven't helped at all actually...one night I had impressive and vivid dreams, but that's it.
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Have a look at: http://lucidconsciousness.com/wp-co...Pharmacological-Induction-of-Lucid-Dreams.pdf

If you add 25mg of caffeine and 200mg L-theanine to the mix, it will suppress deep sleep and should result in higher lucidity (LDS4 in the paper).

It is hypothesized that the success of this approach is due to the combination of a cholinergic stimulating substance with a deep sleep suppressing substance which allowed the subject to move from the waking state directly into a very light sleep with increased acetylcholine levels.
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Thanks a bunch for that link, have downloaded the paper and will be sure to assimilate it. Your timing for this message could not be more impeccable, as I have a mug of green tea next to me now, and from tonight was planning to incorporate it into a nightly pre-bed meditation and lucidity aid, from a little research it seems like it could be a healthy ally to both. The first time I experienced what I think was the start of an OBE was when I was stoned and in a hypnagogic state...I don't think the cannabis was the cause of it by any stretch, although I do think it helped facilitate it, by me being very physically relaxed but mentally still awake, and my feeling is green tea will produce a similar effect but via different pharmacology.

I've been using tryptophan recently, but if anything my sleep on it has been too deep, and I've found it harder getting up in the morning, so think I'm going to abstain from that and see how I get on. Last week I had one quite amusing precognitive dream, and another deeply intuitive dream within a night or two of each other, the latter was informing me of something that had happened yet but was indeed in the pipeline as I found out a few days later, and really taught me to trust my intuition more. This may be partly due to my brain being in a post ayahuasca afterglow state with my recent shamanic weekend, not sure, but OBE and lucid dream induction do seem largely compatible and overlapping which is cool.
 
SpartanII said:
Yup.

In body, out-of-body...eventually it doesn't matter anymore, it's all the same, or it's all relative. Inner/outer, within/without, etc. "As above, so below...etc"

What we call a "body" is simply one of many possible perceptions. Once consciousness is non-local, it's non-local, you know what I mean?😉
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That's a good point SpartanII,

I have found that meditating and OBE's are pretty common in my exp. while I project my human body as a vessel for these journeys. One in the same for the most part for me. But silence is a necessity. I just cant lucid dream! IDK why. Im not aware im dreaming and therefor cannot control it for some reason or another, it happens soo rare that I realize it but then shortly wake up after the realization. I guess it just takes practice...

Meditation has helped all round with my life to be honest, including my acute accelerations into hyperspace. It decreased my worries to almost nothing. It takes around 5-10 min of silence to OBE for me. I have some techs I gathered over the years some breathing, some centering, and some mind discipline. But incorporate into one.

Namaste:thumb_up:

---dls---
 
Interesting. It seems that lucid dreams and OPBE's are linked (and the former can act as a launch pad for the latter), and some studies I have read have observed a link between proficiency at lucid dreaming and likelihood of experiencing OBE's. For the vast majority of people though OBE's are harder to induce than lucid dreams so you've got it a nice way round!

Are you able to provide any information on your meditation, like what type it is, how long you tend to do it for, and when in the day, and when do you find the best time of day for OBE's etc? Any information on the breathing, centering and mind discipline techniques? I know we are all individuals and must find what works for us, but I for one would be very interested to hear more about this and your journey and I'm sure others would too.

I was thinking of having a green tea, sitting Zazen for 20 minutes, then doing some body point relaxation while continuing to relax with mindfulness on breathing, also have the option of binaural, isochronic, hemi-sync tones to aid in getting into trance. Do you have a strong intention to project or just let it happen? Apologies for the questions, but would love to know more.

This simple approach detailed in the link below kinda resonated with me, as the guy uses the hypnagogic state (the state from which I had on OBE take off one time) and it incorporates breathing mindfulness meditation so you get the benefits of that even if you don't project.

 
Its 100% alright my friend! With my OBE's I tend to combine it with a standard breathing exercise, where I focus on my breath slower and slower, in, out, in out, (in the basic meditation stance or what ever is comfortable) till I slow my heart rate way down, then as my mindful thoughts continue to bombard my head with my imaginations and thoughts, I just observe them, I don't have an opinion or get involved about anything I think of or see, I just tell myself "O Well, PEACE" and it makes me let go even farther past every thought, I got to the point where I don't even use the words to get to that feeling anymore. As my experience dives deeper it becomes black all around me, I made my mind shut up lol. Its soo very talkative lol. But as there is nothing, im floating in the vastness of dark space, no detail just ME, meditating, floating. I can then imagine anything I want into "My Reality" I can portray myself meditating by leaving my body and looking back at myself, that's kind of a checkpoint for me knowing I did it, I always look back to catch as much detail of the place im ascending from and makes the journey that much more lucid/vivid.

The funny part is whenever I usually come back from OBE's without forming to my body with my astro body, or im interrupted I get sucked back through wormhole backwards is what it feels like, and I could see the tube of the wormhole from inside, kind of really weird but I found its my soul/being getting pulled back to my vessel at incredible speed. doesn't happen very long, but long enough for me to take note of it. lol

As for time and place to execute this endeavor, nighttime would be the best bet from what it sounds like you told me, but silence is key though "Don't break the silence" lol but all techniques done in order, should give you the catalyst needed for OBE's. Daytime works well with me too as the photons from the sun or light penetrate under my shut eyelids giving a bit more live detail to the exp. But glad to post and contribute! I found this works extremely well for me, any questions ill do my best to answer them!

Sorry tho I don't have a name for this type of meditation :(

Edit: Turns out its Zen Meditation never knew lol.:)

May Peace Follow,

--dls--
 
Bancopuma said:
Thanks a bunch for that link, have downloaded the paper and will be sure to assimilate it. Your timing for this message could not be more impeccable, as I have a mug of green tea next to me now, and from tonight was planning to incorporate it into a nightly pre-bed meditation and lucidity aid, from a little research it seems like it could be a healthy ally to both. The first time I experienced what I think was the start of an OBE was when I was stoned and in a hypnagogic state...I don't think the cannabis was the cause of it by any stretch, although I do think it helped facilitate it, by me being very physically relaxed but mentally still awake, and my feeling is green tea will produce a similar effect but via different pharmacology.
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You're welcome.

Well, I failed with the Galantamine/Choline mix as well, so I re-read the Yushak papers yesterday and noticed that particular paragraph. I tried the combo with a can of caffeinated soda (~25 mg caffeine) and 600 mg of Alpha GPC after 4h of sleep, but failed again. Dreams were vivid though.

The soda can was probably not a good idea, green tea might be more effective - you don't want to excess the 25 mg caffeine mark, however.

L-theanine, a natural constituent in tea, and its effect on mental state.

L-theanine significantly increases activity in the alpha frequency band which indicates that it relaxes the mind without inducing drowsiness. However, this effect has only been established at higher doses than that typically found in a cup of black tea (approximately 20mg). The aim of the current research was to establish this effect at more realistic dietary levels. EEG was measured in healthy, young participants at baseline and 45, 60, 75, 90 and 105 minutes after ingestion of 50mg L-theanine (n=16) or placebo (n=19).
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How much L-theanine is in a cup of black tea?

About 20mg (24.2 ± 5.7mg)

How much caffeine is in a cup of black tea?

14-61mg

How much L-theanine is in a cup of green tea?

The exact L-theanine content of teas will depend on environmental conditions (climate, rainfall, sunlight). Standard green tea may have L-theanine content as low as 5mg per cup (7.9 ± 3.8mg). While shade grown green tea (Gyokuro, Matcha) may have as much as 46mg per cup.

How much caffeine is in a cup of green tea?

14-61mg
nootropicsguide.wordpress.com

L-theanine Caffeine and Tea

L-theanine L-theanine and Caffeine. L-theanine appears to be both very safe and effective. It has a long history of use, an LD50 estimated to be over 1000 times larger than a standard therapeutic d…
nootropicsguide.wordpress.com nootropicsguide.wordpress.com
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Thank you both for the really great info, very much appreciated. :thumb_up:

My meditation/mindfulness breathing exercise sounds very much the same as yours darklordsson so I'm gonna keep up with that, and thanks for the other info, all interesting stuff.

Ufostrahlen, thanks for the dosage info. I'm a bit of a caffeine lighweight in the eve, if I consume it too late it can give me insomnia, I'm maybe playing with fire a bit here, so I'll be microdosing with it anyway. I'm going to use loose leaf green tea which should make this easier, and it happens I just got some matcha a few days ago so I will try experimenting with that, it sounds like the L-theanine could be a real ally here and for meditation generally, it could be superior than caffeine for me in some respects. Will experiment with both.
 
Yeah, caffeine is a helluva drug. I don't like the side effects of it and I think it doesn't benefit meditation practice in general. Matcha is rich in catechines and l-theanine, unfortunately in caffeine, too. So good luck with your experiments.

I hope to soon get my hands on l-theanine again; I used a 60 cap bottle with the amino acid mix propagated by Yushak with no success, however I wasn't aware of the deep sleep issue. And I never tried it with meditation practices, so I guess there's room for new experiments.
 
Hmmm yeah I feel this could be a little too risky for me. I'm intrigued by this stuff but my sleep quality is very important to me. I did have insomnia just the other night after that green tea, but it was an incredibly stormy noisy night, which forced me to close my window later on in the night, and I'm someone who always likes fresh air when they sleep. So not sure what was to blame, but caffeine has caused issues with sleep in the past, and I'm not keen to revisit those!

L-theanine sounds promising though, both from research on it and anecdotal reports, have just ordered some.

From Wiki, quite well referenced on this stuff.

"In 2006, a study found no consistent, statistically significant treatment-related adverse effects on behavior, morbidity, mortality, body weight, food consumption and efficiency, clinical chemistry, hematology, or urinalysis in rats fed high doses of theanine for 13 weeks.[23] Large studies in humans have not been undertaken, however several smaller-scale studies (less than 100 participants) have shown increased alpha wave generation and lowered anxiety, along with benefits to sleep quality in patients with ADHD.[11][26][26][27][28]"

Seems like it aids in relaxation and reduces stress, both of which are going to aid OBE induction, and importantly, it doesn't seem to be detrimental to sleep quality. Tryptophan seemed a little unreliable...it was great to start with but I slept too deeply on it and felt quite groggy in the mornings and found it harder to get up than usual, and want to avoid tweaking my serotonin system too much on a regular basis, if it ain't broke don't fix it I'm thinking. This and 5-HTP can be great for some people but my personal view based on experience is they are perhaps better used on occasion as oppose to very regularly. Melatonin levels can be increased by meditation by candlelight before bed with all the benefits of that over taking it is a supplement. The evidence with melatonin is also that less definitely seems to be more.
 
Bancopuma said:
I'm intrigued by this stuff but my sleep quality is very important to me. I did have insomnia just the other night after that green tea, but it was an incredibly stormy noisy night, which forced me to close my window later on in the night, and I'm someone who always likes fresh air when they sleep.
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Outside noises don't bother me much, as I sleep with ear plugs. They are beneficial for meditation, too, as they instantaneously shut off the external world. I probably couldn't sleep or meditate without them.

Another nice tool I learned about yesterday, is the Neuro-Programmer 3. It's been mentioned here before by Benzyme and Hyperspace Fool and the cool thing is, you can hook up an EEG to the software and use both for customized binaural/isochronic frequencies:

BioOptimization makes sessions more effective

NP3 has the unique ability to use biofeedback data to optimize session frequencies. It does this by collecting physiological or EEG data while you use a session and then later analyzing that data to determine which frequencies you respond best to.

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Sounds good on paper and I actually put it on my soon-to-achieve-goal list (NP3 & NeuroSky EEG). Maybe someone on the forum has this combination and can comment about it?

The Mind WorkStation and the Emotiv EPOC sound/look even better, but they are 4 times costlier and the EPOC seems unsuitable for lying down (lotus position only).
 
I have recently returned from a four day intensive Consciousness Development Programme (CDP) put on by the International Academy of Consciousness (IAC) in London, and wanted to give a brief review here if it is of any interest to anybody. In a nut shell, I'm really glad I experienced the course. The instructors were both great, psychologists by training and were clear communicators who really knew their stuff. One was given theory classes on a range of topics related to OBE's, followed by a bioenergy workout at the end of each, alternating with a practical class on a particular OBE technique with a discussion on others for home use. There are was around ten of us, from all over the world...Sweden, Russia, Poland, China, Finland, and the instructors were Brazilian, I thought this was cool. The IAC take an experimental approach and are against dogma or belief and take a pro science approach, which, as a scientist, I liked. The organisation's motto is:

"DON'T BELIEVE IN ANYTHING. Even in what we report in the IAC. EXPERIMENT. Have your own experiences."

Some of the talks got pretty darn out there, when dealing with consciousness evolution and the like, and being a "noob" to this I will need to have my experiences and go from there, but this is what they are all about. Some of the course teachings I definitely took with a pinch of salt, although I was very interested in their perspectives obtained through their member's collective OBE explorations. One of the instructors in particular was also highly anti-drug, and I did not share his views on this, but this did not detract from the content of the presentations or guidance with techniques.

The bioenergy techniques... the Voluntary Energetic Longitudinal Oscillation (VELO), exterisation and absorption of energies produced impressive results that were cumulative over time, I was impressed. I also noticed that despite the four 12 hour days (10-10) after the first day I felt invigorated and energised, and after the course on the last night getting back home from London on the train around 1AM and having shared a bottle of wine on the way back with my mum we weren't tired and I actually had trouble falling asleep...when I did I proceeded to have CRAZY and very intense dreams, I actually think I came quite close to projecting! The techniques themselves were interesting...the body point relaxation and elongation techniques worked particularly well for me. It was also reassuring getting such results in a room full of occasionally snoring people with the tube rumbling past occasionally! For the the body point relaxation, following the bioenergy work, I actually had done it wrong by over stretching muscle groups yet I felt numbness, ballooning and vibrations/undulations in my legs, and at the end of the session when the instructor called us back, I was surprised to find my projective legs slam back into my "real" legs with powerful force and vibrations...I hadn't noticed they were "out"! My strongest symptoms to date...the elongation technique produced strong tingling, warmth and later strong vibrations in my hands and my feet in particular, I was impressed! I didn't really expect to project on the course, this is something most of us need to work on over time, like working out, you don't get profound results after just a few sessions...but I was impressed with what I experienced with the techniques and the bioenergy workouts. The course has given me a great deal of motivation to persevere with both the bioenergy workouts and the OBE techniques that worked well for me. My mum joined me, and she is a naturally gifted projector. She experienced powerful energy symptoms during some of the techniques, had an extra physical cat jump on her chest during a VELO session, and seemed to remote view my sister in France working on her masters stuff (my sister text her half an hour later saying she had just finished her masters work!)

For anyone wanting a little more info on the VELO bioenergy workout, this is worth a look. Definitely worth exploring for those interested, may take a few days before you start getting noticeable results, but they are definitely cumulative with time, and I'd be really interested to hear feed back on this from others.


This page provides some good information and many resources regarding conscious projections and how to induce them.


So yeah, I'm glad to have experienced this course...I'm quite hard headed and skeptical in some respects and am surprised and impressed I experienced what I did on the course, and I have a lot more motivation now to keep on persevering with this OBE stuff, I hope it lasts! I have been enjoying the bioenergy workouts, and already results of applying the techniques are tangible and pleasant and I'm motivated to practice them daily to see where it takes me. The course wasn't cheap, but the IAC are a non profit organisation largely run by volunteers, and they are active in OBE and consciousness research, so I this is money I was happy to spend.

And no, I have not been brain washed by the IAC! ALL GLORY TO THE IAC!!! :d

A decent article on projecting I encountered today that may be of interest.

 
My dream recall has increased quite a bit in the last several months, ive been wanting to get back into learning how to lucid dream and also OoBEs. Im gonna give the txts in the op a read but i had a question.

For the last few weeks i am finding myself waking up around 6am or so and then it takes me anywhere from a few minutes to half an hour to fall back asleep. Can i use this opportunity to lucid dream or have an obe?
 
Hi anrchy, yes this is an excellent time to practice OBE (and lucid dream) induction, one is well rested and deeply relaxed, which is half the work done, and the hypnopompic state makes a great springboard for such experiences.
 
Im sorry i meant to say "how can i use this opportunity..."

Starting last night, im attempting the "noticing" and "mental rundown" excersizes before phasing out to the dream world. After reading one of the txts i think this may be a better technique for me than others i have tried. On a reg basis i get auditory hypnogogic hallucinations right before falling asleep. Most notably i hear my name called out by a female voice that i do not know. Other times it is either a female or male voice that i do recognize.

I also hear exploding sounds, much like a firework report. When that happens its almost always on a repeating time scale. I have been aware of the phase shift before but it was always on accident and i lose awareness shortly after. I think by pointing my attention more closely i will be able to achieve lucid awareness.

Do any of you find the "letting go" into the lucid dream from the wake state to seem like the same mechanism of letting go right before a low dose breakthrough? From my meager experiences of lucid dreaming it feels like the same idea.
 
I just realized this morning cause when I wake up usually, its pretty early but I decided to go back to sleep.

universecannon said:
In the morning after waking up for a bit is the perfect time to try and lucid dream or have an OBE. A lot of my most bizarre dream experiences happen then.
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This is true^. When I get a day off now, ill have about a half a cup of coffee smoke some MJ then go back to bed, the dreams are pretty lucid I think I found a way to coincide with lucid dreaming. The coffee technique works but the herb of choice is a very strong Indica. I had a tiny bit of closed eye visuals with this as the caffeine kept me from slipping away to sleep completely. But yeah, had a dream where I was back in school, kind of weird but I was taking classes for some ridiculous subject and I wasn't taking the class seriously cause I knew I was dreaming and somehow brought my sac with me to the class and it was reeking up the whole class with that sweet smell. Guy I sat next to jus shook his head at me knowing that I brought it when he smelt it lol.

But I think that coffee method is the way to go, coffee affects everyone virtually the same right? Its a matter of finding a sleep herb or just try to go back to sleep without any aid or stimuli. But I cant luce a dream without a lil aid till im warmed up and know im dreaming, I guess it was because I purposely went to sleep with the intentions of having a lucid dream I was expecting to dream.

I dunno, thought id share this lil experiment here. Seemed like a good add on since I couldn't luce a dream before, lol
 
darklordsson said:
But I think that coffee method is the way to go, coffee affects everyone virtually the same right?
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Unfortunately not for me. I believe I am slowly becoming allergic to coffee. Over the years I have accrued an increasing sensitivity to caffeine. Taking 2 excedrin on a less than full stomach results in my body shaking, feeling faint to the point of almost passing out, nausea, hot flash like feelings, with a severe crash at the end. The negative effects usually last about 4-6 hours.

Drinking a normal sized cup of reg coffee gives me close to the same effects, that last approx 3 hours. With more severe shaking.
 
Ah, that's right... My sister in-law has this bad reaction to caffeine, im pretty embarrassed I didn't remember (head in palms). But yeah I remember she cant have any shes really sensitive to it. My bads.:p
 
I dont feel that it takes away from your idea any, i believe many could utilize that method to learn to become lucid aware.

Not sure how caffeine effects it on the grand scale of things, like if it dilutes the experience or not.
 
It was a pretty vivid exp. though. I was able to control my actions instead of just being a witness so to speak. But it was very clear, made out the faces of the people in the class room and the weird instructor dressed like an old German (edit)instructor with the coat with the sewn on elbow patches lol
 
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