Best Jungle spice extraction method?

[PrimateSphinx]

Hey Ya'll

I had a few questions about Jungle Spice. My pet tuatara has quite a bit (maybe 6 liters or so?) of old basic Mimosa solution that has already been processed using Noman's tek with heptane as the solvent. He was considering doing a Jungle spice extraction since he has a few liters just lying around and wondered the best way to go about doing this. From his understanding the best way to get jungle spice from already processed mimosa solution is to just do a few pulls with xylene or tuolene and then do an evap in a glass dish. Is this correct or does my tuatara have to take more steps to get some of that red waxy spice goodness? Also my friend of the dinosaurs was wondering what key differences there are between regular spice and jungle spice. He read that the effects are a lot more "dark" than those of regular spice and he was wondering what some of you think about it from your experiences. Is it worth extracting or should he just stay with regular spice?

 

[endlessness]

You can use xylene, toluene or limonene. Xylene and toluene can be evaporated to leave a red or orange waxy product which is comprised mostly of DMT, plus some fatty acids and a couple of other alkaloids (NMT and two or three beta carbolines in very small amounts). The problem with evaporating is that xylene and toluene take long to evaporate and smell VERY nasty (be sure you dont have neighbours that can smell it or they might be suspicious, and dont do it inside your house unless you have flowhood or its an isolated room with good ventilation. Also just simply evaporating is big waste of petrochem solvents. The alternative is to salt out your alkaloids with vinegar and dry/evaporate that. You can mix that evaporated vinegar with a little bit of water and plenty of sodium carbonate, let it dry, and pull with acetone or ethanol or IPA, and evap. The alkaloid fraction will be the same as if you just evaporated, but this way you wont be evaporating all the petrochem.

Limonene HAS to be salted, it cant be evaporated, so if you use that, salt with FASW if you want full spectrum, or FASI (though FASI has NMT and 2MTHBC, not MTHBC and the other yet uncaracterized beta carboline). You can later convert the fumarates in same way as described above for full spectrum alkaloids.

As for the experience being dark, I think thats self-suggestion (and possible set and setting) because people see something red they associate with evil/dark. There is no reason why NMT and a betacarboline or two will make the trip dark. In fact, 2MTHBC is also found in some ayahuasca samples, which dont necessarily have anything to do with dark trips.

Im currently doing some analysis on different jungle products, you can read more about it here: Its kinda technical but if theres anything you dont understand, feel free to ask. There's more information to come in the future

 

[PrimateSphinx]

thanks endlessness,
I figured you'd be the one to answer this. Would you say that the extra alkaloids in the red waxy spice make a lot of difference in the overall trip experience? I have heard a lot of mixed things about it and I'm trying to figure out if its worth it because my tuatara doesn't have a lot of money for supplies now and doesn't really care do to it if the trip is almost the same as regular white crystal spice. I heard Jungle spice is a lot more powerful than regular, is that true? Also he was wondering if he were to use say xylene and go that rout how much xylene per pull would be needed? I'm definitely a layman when it comes to chemistry like this so sorry if this is redundant. Also could you repost the link to your analysis? it didn't post or at least where I can see it,
thanks again

 

[q21q21]

Subjectively, I don't think anyone but that guy who posted about jungle DMT being "dark" that somehow got read by freaking everyone would consider it darker.

While debated I've found that jungle give brighter reds and purples and softer more close-up visuals. OEVs are more object focused rather than the liquid-morphing-haze over everything I get from white DMT. Also it is maybe a little more stimulating and also slightly shorter in duration.

I mean this is just my subjective experience but one thing that I can say for sure is that in no way have I, or anyone I've given some jungle, consider it darker. It is DMT, maybe slightly different, but upwards of 90% of the experience is exactly the same from white to jungle

 

[PrimalWisdom]

Hey
IME jungle is more of a smoother ride, with plant and animal themes, I've also witnessed ancient rituals and been smudged by a shaman all while under the influence of "Jungle" I really love it. I think my experiences definitely stem from the term "jungle spice" and the connotations this conjures in my mind. I really don't mind though.

I'd use xylene. It's easy to get, relatively cheap and works well. If you have neighbours that might get suspicious like me. I usually put a paint tin and some brushes outside my garage door while evapping it so it looks like I am painting or something, In my head this helps set a back story for the smell of the xylene permeating from my garage.

Peace

PW

 

[endlessness]

PrimateSphynx, its kinda hard to say if its worth it.. What was your yield so far with naphtha from the base soup?

You could get some limonene or xylene, pull with it a few times and salt it out and convert as mentioned above. Then just store the used limo/xylene and you can use it again for next extraction, so in this way no matter what, youre not wasting money...

In fact, you could in the next extraction start with that solvent already instead of naphtha. The yields will be significantly higher. Then if you want some pure DMT from it, you can (after converting to freebase) recrystallize using a bit of naphtha (30ml hot naphtha per impure jungle) and freeze that naphtha (or do FASI/FASA on some of the limonene/xylene and get some clean fumarates which can be freebased to clean crystals as it shows in BLAB tek). If you salted with vinegar and reconverted to freebase, and are doing a naphtha recrystallization as mentioned above with 30ml hot naphtha, repeat this once or twice more and freeze separately each run. Then you can bioassay that jungle which has less DMT, and see if you find any difference in experience (though of course unless you do a blind test, it will be impossible to say how much of the difference is self suggestion)

Good luck!

Oh sorry, here's the analysis link:

Mimosa hostilis and extract analysis thread (FASA, FASW, Naphtha, Limo, "jungle spice" etc - Plant Analysis and Substance Testing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[LetSoulsDevour]

So its time for my 1st jungle spice extraction, but I do not know if I have to do 2-3 pulls for the DMT with heptane before doing the xylene pulls?
Should I just pull with xylene from the beginning and skip the heptane pulls?

 

[endlessness]

You can skip the heptane pulls and go straight for xylene. You can use heptane to pull DMT from jungle later on, as explained in my above post. Its basically doing a recrystallization in your jungle, FAQ has more detailed explanation on how to recrystallize.

 

[LetSoulsDevour]

But is it even necessary to do it? Don't we want DMT in our end-produckt as well? I mean is not jungle spice NN-DMT + other alkaloids, if you pull the DMT later on is it really jungle spice then? *A little bit confused*

 

[endlessness]

Yeah jungle is a mix of DMT + other alkaloids.

I said about the recrystallization in the case you want to also have pure DMT without other alkaloids. So, say, you could have half your batch as normal jungle, and the other half recrystallize. This way you would have half of normal jungle, plus something around a quarter of pure dmt and a quarter of "pure" jungle (consisting of other alkaloids and less dmt). Does that make sense? I was just giving you more options.

 

[LetSoulsDevour]

Oh ok, just got confused because I read in different places that people do pull the dmt before pulling the jungle so I thought that
it was something that was necessary. Thanks for the options, I do have some pure xtals lying around so I'll go for xylene pulls right
from the beginning. Going to use nomans tek

 

[q21q21]

There is unofficial jargon that goes with it. I like (forget who coined it, some well-known nexian I believe) the term jimjam for everything that xylene/toluene/d-limonene pull from MHRB without naptha being used in the extraction. Jungle being what naptha/heptane cannot pull.
What I use for terms:
White/Yellow DMT = Crystals from naptha/heptane
Jungle DMT = The orangish to redish to brownish stuff naptha can't pull
Jimjam DMT = a combination of the two.

As endlessness said, the analysis shows that by far the main constituent of each is DMT, but naptha and heptane really suck at dissolving jungle DMT.

 

[PrimateSphinx]

@ endlessness,
The tuatara actually doesn't use naptha for his pulls, he just does the whole thing with heptane which he found to work better ihe. He usually only does 100 g extractions and usually yield a gram or a little more of pure crystals which he's pretty satisfied with being that thats a 1% yield. But everyone has convinced me now that jungle is worth it so he's gonna go for it when he gets the chance. How many xylene pulls would you say he should do because he thinks he'll end up doing the xylene rout for the ease of it. He was thinking about 3 or 4, would that work?

@PrimalWisdom
thats a good idea about having paint buckets and such to create a ruse. Definitely going to do that whenever my tuatara chooses to extract.

 

[endlessness]

Naphtha is more or less equivalent to heptane, but naphtha has a different composition depending on who makes it. Naphtha is usually a mix of aliphatic hydrocarbons such as pentane, hexane, heptane, octane and their isomers which have similar solubility/polarity characteristics, though sometimes some naphtha may have some percentage of things such as xylene. I once used some naphtha with 3% xylene that when evaporated yielded some beautiful white/orange/red crystals (pic 1 and 2).

In any case, as for knowing how much xylene is enough, the best way to find this out is if you salt/evap each xylene pull separately. Do 2, see if the second pull yields significant amount. Do another pull, see how much it diminishes.. As long as there's still nice active stuff coming out, keep pulling, right?

Good luck!

 

[PrimateSphinx]

You can use xylene, toluene or limonene. Xylene and toluene can be evaporated to leave a red or orange waxy product which is comprised mostly of DMT, plus some fatty acids and a couple of other alkaloids (NMT and two or three beta carbolines in very small amounts). The problem with evaporating is that xylene and toluene take long to evaporate and smell VERY nasty (be sure you dont have neighbours that can smell it or they might be suspicious, and dont do it inside your house unless you have flowhood or its an isolated room with good ventilation. Also just simply evaporating is big waste of petrochem solvents. The alternative is to salt out your alkaloids with vinegar and dry/evaporate that. You can mix that evaporated vinegar with a little bit of water and plenty of sodium carbonate, let it dry, and pull with acetone or ethanol or IPA, and evap. The alkaloid fraction will be the same as if you just evaporated, but this way you wont be evaporating all the petrochem.

I'm bumping this because I'm going to start work on this soon. Can anyone give me a more in depth explanation of how to salt the alkaloids out because I don't think evaporating the xylene is any longer an option. Would this just entail adding the vinegar to the xylene after the pulls have been done and then separating the layers of vinegar and xylene. How exactly is the salting done?

 

[3rdI]

Would this just entail adding the vinegar to the xylene after the pulls have been done and then separating the layers of vinegar and xylene.

Thats what i do, except with limonene not xylene. There is an explanation of the salting process in the Q21Q21 tek.

Step 1: Pour some vinegar into the container with the solvent. About 1 shot-glass full.

Step 2: Seal the container and agitate it a bunch. I prefers to use the turning-the-doorknob method to agitate as shaking sometimes causes leakage. There is sometimes a small bubbly layer of emulsion that take a long time to resolve.

Agitate it and the top layer, the solvent, will start to cloud with DMT-acetate floating around. over a period of at least 2 minutes, for the process to complete. Don't leave it for over 10 minutes because after a while oils and gunk can migrate to the vinegar/water

Step 3: Use a turkey baster to suck out the vinegar (bottom layer) and transfer it to a separate clean container.
If you don't get all the vinegar don't worry.

Step 4:Next add a shot or two of hot tap water to the solvent, and agitate it for about a minute.

Step 5: Use a turkey baster again to suck out the water and combine it with the vinegar.

I then evap in a hot water bath and boom, lurvly Jimjam goodness.


As a bit of a tangent, can i pull crystals from Jimjam?

I have about a 1.5g of Jimjam that i pulled at the weekend and would like to experiment. If i was to add some warm naptha to the Jimjam and swirl/mix it about would this result in the DMT in the Jimjam transfering to the naptha which i could then evap or freeze precip to leave me with some crystals??

for 1 reason or another i always fail on crystal extractions and this might be an alternative way to go

cheers

 

[PrimateSphinx]

Thats what i do, except with limonene not xylene. There is an explanation of the salting process in the Q21Q21 tek.

Step 1: Pour some vinegar into the container with the solvent. About 1 shot-glass full.

Step 2: Seal the container and agitate it a bunch. I prefers to use the turning-the-doorknob method to agitate as shaking sometimes causes leakage. There is sometimes a small bubbly layer of emulsion that take a long time to resolve.

Agitate it and the top layer, the solvent, will start to cloud with DMT-acetate floating around. over a period of at least 2 minutes, for the process to complete. Don't leave it for over 10 minutes because after a while oils and gunk can migrate to the vinegar/water

Step 3: Use a turkey baster to suck out the vinegar (bottom layer) and transfer it to a separate clean container.
If you don't get all the vinegar don't worry.

Step 4:Next add a shot or two of hot tap water to the solvent, and agitate it for about a minute.

Step 5: Use a turkey baster again to suck out the water and combine it with the vinegar.

I then evap in a hot water bath and boom, lurvly Jimjam goodness.


As a bit of a tangent, can i pull crystals from Jimjam?

I have about a 1.5g of Jimjam that i pulled at the weekend and would like to experiment. If i was to add some warm naptha to the Jimjam and swirl/mix it about would this result in the DMT in the Jimjam transfering to the naptha which i could then evap or freeze precip to leave me with some crystals??

for 1 reason or another i always fail on crystal extractions and this might be an alternative way to go

cheers

Gracias 3rdI ol' buddy ol' pal:d. do you (or anybody) know if this salting process works better with limonene or xylene? I would go with limonene because that seems to be the easiest but I just don't know where to get it. I figured xylene would be better because it's sold in hardwear stores and is pretty cheap, but I'm no scientist. And can anyone give me a good idea of what kind of yields to expect with jungle spice extraction?

 

[3rdI]

i started ext. with xylene then moved onto limonene when i could find cos xylene is nasty.

i didnt notice a change in yield between the 2 but i never really did an indepth comparison.

My current extractions are coming out between 1-1.3% with limonene but i extract Jimjam and not Jungle, im not sure what the yield of jungle would be after pulling all the NN.

I have a little xylene left at home so when i get my next batch of bark i will do a comparison between the 2 solvents and post it on here.

i read on here recently that the FASI method of salting may be more effective than the vinegar so if i can find some fumeric acid i will give that a go to see if theres a difference.

kitchen chemistry, you gotta love it:d

 

[Squirrel]

You can use xylene, toluene or limonene. Xylene and toluene can be evaporated to leave a red or orange waxy product which is comprised mostly of DMT, plus some fatty acids and a couple of other alkaloids (NMT and two or three beta carbolines in very small amounts). The problem with evaporating is that xylene and toluene take long to evaporate and smell VERY nasty (be sure you dont have neighbours that can smell it or they might be suspicious, and dont do it inside your house unless you have flowhood or its an isolated room with good ventilation. Also just simply evaporating is big waste of petrochem solvents. The alternative is to salt out your alkaloids with vinegar and dry/evaporate that. You can mix that evaporated vinegar with a little bit of water and plenty of sodium carbonate, let it dry, and pull with acetone or ethanol or IPA, and evap. The alkaloid fraction will be the same as if you just evaporated, but this way you wont be evaporating all the petrochem.

Limonene HAS to be salted, it cant be evaporated, so if you use that, salt with FASW if you want full spectrum, or FASI (though FASI has NMT and 2MTHBC, not MTHBC and the other yet uncaracterized beta carboline). You can later convert the fumarates in same way as described above for full spectrum alkaloids.

As for the experience being dark, I think thats self-suggestion (and possible set and setting) because people see something red they associate with evil/dark. There is no reason why NMT and a betacarboline or two will make the trip dark. In fact, 2MTHBC is also found in some ayahuasca samples, which dont necessarily have anything to do with dark trips.

Im currently doing some analysis on different jungle products, you can read more about it here: Its kinda technical but if theres anything you dont understand, feel free to ask. There's more information to come in the future

I really like that post, I am doing pulls with xylene from my spent mimosa, after adding vinegar and pulling that I can just evaporate it? Also is there a rule for how much vinegar should be added?

 

[locojuiceman]

I get a brown type of 'spice' after my ACRB extract is 'spent'. I take the extract, re-acidify, reduce to the pint that 'sludge' builds on the bottom, strain with stainless-steel mesh, then base again and pull with 75/25 naphtha/Heptane and the resulting crystals, very sticky, are worth it. I think it is worth it because it is a nice body high with a slight tryptamine feel too it and why not get all you can from your hard work?