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Betel Nut

Migrated topic.
Well the stuff on sale is a salt I think- arecoline hydrobromide- doesn't that mean it doesn't need to be mixed?
It'll get banned for sure eventually because it's fun so we'll need a tek one day. They won't ban the nuts themselves because of the racial issue. Any tips? SWIM was thinking of powdering and soaking the rest of his bag in IPA for starters.
I read that arecoline has been used to flush out tapeworms- it has a laxative effect if you swallow enough.
SWIM is going to try making chewing gum balls out of it, by putting 7mg inside a piece of gum so he can take it out with him for nighttiming. The doses are too small for eyeballing so need to be pre-prepared. A guy who snorted 10mg said that was a bit too much and recommended 7mg.
 
I know very little about arecoline or betel nut. I know far more about bufotenine and 5-MeO-DMT, their use as snuff, etc., and I'm applying that knowledge to arecoline, but it might not be correct for arecoline.

Does betel nut or arecoline go well with any psychedelics?
 
The isolate is still used pretty rarely, I haven't found anyone using it with other things. I've got a bit obsessed and have been hunting for info on other forums. No idea of contraindications. But the nuts are chewed by a large proportion of the world, it's the fourth most used drug worldwide apparently (I presume behind tobacco, nicotine and alcohol), so I'm sure there are shamen merrily chewing away while they're tripping somewhere in the world. Here's a map showing geographical distribution of use Betel - Wikipedia

I wouldn't recommend using arecoline while you're tripping, because I've read that if you get your dosage wrong you're a goner. SWIM was chewing 3g of nuts, and I read 8-10 nuts can be fatal to some people. Don't know if this is all people, or just in a certain situation, or if some people are sensitive and it's only dangerous for them, maybe they're the allergic ones. Just don't know. So with the isolate, being conservative, that's like the difference between a 5mg dose and a 13mg one! The guy on Edot who snorted 10mg said it felt like way too much, so that 'fits'. That's why SWIM wants to pre-prepare individual doses when he gets his hands on some. Although looking at those figures, he's not sure if he trusts his scale. Might as well take up henbane with those odds!

If so many people in the world chew it, surely these figures can't be right? Is it not possible to fit 8g in your mouth at one time? It's easily possible, and that means a lot of people would've tried it! Hmmm...

As for chewing the nuts while tripping, I definitely wouldn't recommend putting edible lime anywhere near your mouth while spaced out! And you'd be dribbling it all down your top, the quantity of saliva produced is unbelievable.

There's nothing visionary about betel... it's purely recreational. SWIM wants to use it as an alternative to alcohol. It only lasts half an hour, so you could go out, chew some arecoline in gum every now and then, have a dance, then by the time you got home you'd be sober again!

Ethnogarden are selling it for 10x more than other (non-entheogenic) sources. You can buy it 10x cheaper from chemical companies, SWIM's seen it on the internet (and this fits with what an Edot member wrote in a thread over there). But he hasn't bought any because he's having trouble finding any that definitely say FCC or USP grade... these chemistry sites are confusing! How do they write what grade it is? Is it just inherent in the chemical code, with each chemical having a few different codes to differentiate the grades?

I've picked up from a few sources that it's a 'muscimol agitator' (?) or something, meaning it works on the same bit of the brain as amanita (altough the effects are very different). Also people are using it as a raw material for making cocaine analogs (precursor? I don't know the lingo).

Acolon_5 used to chew betel, I found an old post of his on drug-forum. But he chewed them without lime as a coffee alternative. Where are you Acolon-5?! :)
 
Can't believe you went and tried it after what SWIM did to his mouth! Haha.
Don't worry, his mouth's healing, it doesn't hurt to eat anymore, so I guess it only take a few days to heal.
 
ohayoco said:
I've picked up from a few sources that it's a 'muscimol agitator' (?) or something, meaning it works on the same bit of the brain as amanita (altough the effects are very different). Also people are using it as a raw material for making cocaine analogs (precursor? I don't know the lingo).
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That's interesting. I wonder if it goes well with panther or muscaria mushrooms?
 
ohayoco said:
Can't believe you went and tried it after what I did to my mouth! Haha.
Don't worry, my mouth's healing, it doesn't hurt to eat anymore, so I guess it only take a few days to heal.
Click to expand...

I thought maybe id somehow get away with it. lol.

But yeah mines fine now too.
 
69ron said:
That's interesting. I wonder if it goes well with panther or muscaria mushrooms?
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Well, on the one hand, it makes you salivate by the bucketload which would counteract amanita-cottonmouth.
On the other hand, it makes you a little sweaty (just a little), which might not be nice if amanita flushes you too.
The extra buzz would certainly be welcome.
 
The panther doesn't make you sweat like the muscaria does. Its much more potent but doesn't contain as much toxic crap as muscaria. That sweating is caused by the toxins in muscaria, not the ibotenic acid/muscimol.

NOTE: Be careful ingesting dried panther. Just 1/4 of a teaspoon of dried panther powder is enough for effects. It’s very potent. Too much ibotenic acid/muscimol can kill you.
 
I started a thread on the safety of arecoline over at Edot because some on there have tried it out.

SWIM decided to stop his explorations with this chemical until more scientific research has been done on its safety. Some think it's carcinogenic, others suspect it can actually inhibit cancer but this seems to be no more than a hypothesis at present, so SWIM is going to play it safe.
 
For my 2 cents: The base is crucial with betel nuts. It's possible to achieve a noticeable dose of betel without base, but it takes an awful lot of material (like a whole mouthful of betel slices).

What I've found to be extremely effective is coating betel nut chunks with a light powdering of calcium carbonate. This way just a few chunks placed in the gum and chewed occasionally as they soften produces a satisfactorily potent dose.

The nuts I'm using now are from a local Indian import market that offers the chopped nuts "sweetened" (basically flavored to taste like mukwas), plainly labeled right at the front of the store. It's illegal to sell betel for human consumption according to the FDA, but I guess this shop doesn't figure anyone knows what betel is enough to enforce this, and they're probably right. In the past I've used sliced nuts that were unflavored from a different Indian import market; they sold both whole and sliced betel nuts, but the packages were completely unlabeled aside from a price sticker, so they just looked like exotic spices except to those in the know (I guess this store was a little more paranoid about the FDA regulation). For best effect I'd coat the slices with calcium carbonate powder, and chew them around the side of my mouth together with some mukwas for flavor.

I've never had the pleasure of trying it with betel leaf (from a different plant altogether, the betel pepper, Piper betel), but I hear it has some aromatic compounds that enhance the experience.
 
So calcium carbonate works well. That’s what I figured.

Is there much of a difference between using calcium carbonate and calcium hydroxide?
 
In terms of effect, they're basically the same. But like others have noted, calcium hydroxide is pretty irritating to the lining of the mouth. I haven't found any irritation to occur with my calcium carbonate-dusted betel.

Also someone mentioned that calcium hydroxide is not good for teeth; I don't know about that, it could be the case. But calcium carbonate is good on the whole for dental health, it keeps the pH of the mouth from becoming too acidic to where the enamel of the teeth can weaken. The way that betel is bad for the teeth is in the small particles it leaves in the teeth to decompose. Simple dental hygiene (dental floss and regular brushing) will combat the vaunted 'betel-mouth' syndrome seen in southeastern Eurasia.
 
They sell the leaf where SWIM got his stuff from, though he didn't buy any.
(Calcium carbonate- is this the stuff that results from putting sodiumbicarbonate in the oven, or am I getting mixed up?)

SWIM took what he had left and made a water extraction on the hob as one would for aya, but with a little blob of lime paste instead of vinegar/lemon just because he had no idea what he was doing, letting each of the two pulls sit overnight. He then smoked some of the resultant residue from evaporation (the 'extracted equivalent' of 1.5g nut). He felt something but it was slight and not particularly pleasant. He then tried a full dose (that he thought equivalent to 3g of nut) sublingually alone, and after 5 mins when nothing had happened he added baking soda, but again absolutely nothing happened. He's not putting lime in his mouth again, so he can't tell if it's active or not. A failed project.
 
ohayoco said:
Calcium carbonate- is this the stuff that results from putting sodiumbicarbonate in the oven, or am I getting mixed up?
Click to expand...

You’re thinking of sodium carbonate.

Calcium carbonate is used as a calcium supplement and sold at lots of health food and vitamin shops. You can get pure calcium carbonate in food grade powder form at many of these stores.
 
Kewl, thanks. PS are oil of peppermint pills ok for LSA experiments? Bought them instead of the actual liquid stuf because he thought they'd last longer.

Oh, also about areca, I was told by someone who tried an alcohol extraction that crystals formed but were inactive.
 
SWIM might obtain some 5x betel nut powder extract in the near future... How would SWIYs recommend he consume this?

He doesn't know whether to use it like a tea and only drink the steeped water, or consume the powder along with a tea, or use it sublingually or what. He figures it should go well as a good stimulant because he doesn't have to deal with the chewing, lime, etc.
 
Ah betel nuts!

I still use these on occasion...and yes, they are a great coffee alternative.

I do recommend using them with a bit of lime buffered with tums (I've had one too many lime burns in my mouth to put straight lime in there with the nuts)...or just go to a local indian grocery and ask for Pan Parag (aka Marsala, AKA Supari). I get the blue can for about $8.00 and it lasts for a few months...not as strong as fresh betel nuts, not by a long shot, but effective nonetheless. using without lime has worked for me, but it really works better with the lime added.

The way I make my own mix is the following:

Take 4 oz betel nutz, crush if not already. You don't want dust, but finely crushed nuts work best. Add 1/4teaspoon lime and 4 teaspoons crushed up tums. Add a sprinkle of cinnimon, or anise seeds. put in ziplock bag and shake the heck out of it until the seed bits are coated.

Personally, I would not mix them with psycadelics. Most psycadelics I use are already stimulating (esp the phens) and adding more stimulation doesn't sound like that good of an idea.

The effects are mildly euphoric (with a good solid dose) but it takes a long time to build. You really have to keep them in your cheek for 30min-hr. They soften up after a bit, and then you can chew them slowly, putting them back in your cheek after a few chews. The red staining juice is the only issue that I have with them. It stains ANYTHING it touches.

I dunno about the actual active alkaloid. I've seen it for sale in a few places, but haven't really bothered to see what it's like. It would be pretty easy to make an extract from it, and then basify it.


BTW: if there is a thread that you would like for me to chime in on, please send me a PM and I'll see what I can add to the topic.
 


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