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Better ways to reduce HCl-Cook Volume?

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Brennendes Wasser

Brennendes Wasser

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Senior member Chemical engineer
Hello!

When doing multiple cooks I am left at the end with like 7 Liters of HCl-aqueous soup.

This must be reduced to 1 Liter.

Yeh ... thats hard.


Right now I place it into 2 pans and stuff it in my oven. Then I heat it up so that it is as ~ 80-90 °C and then open the door of the oven just a little bit and put a fork in between.

This way it stays hot and the evaporated water can escape.

By this it takes HOURS to get from 7 Liters to 1 Liter. And I mean like 10 hours maybe, not just 3 or 4.

It is long and also very energy consuming - not that it costs much, but it just feels silly.




Any other ideas?

Right now I can just imagine to replace the pans with baking plates to enlarge the surface area. Other tipps?
 
So, am I assuming correctly that your using HCl because its a sure way to free DMT from poorly soluble DMT tannate, and then not boiling the resultant fluid extract because boiling DMT with dilute HCl destroys the DMT?
It would probably be far more effective to use a mild acid, one that you could boil without destroying your DMT, your oven, your lungs...
If you don't want to exclusively use vinegar [it does cook off with the water] you could include, or use instead, citric acid or tartaric acid. Citric acid is found with canning supplies with other useful things like paraffin wax and tartaric acid can be made from measured quantities of cream or tartar and hydrochloric acid.
If you currently have 7 litres of HCl brew that you want to simmer down you could buffer it to a gentler acid pH with a stoichiometric quantity of cream of tartar, which is potassium bitartrate. Markets that cater to people that don't actually cook every day often overcharge for cream of tartar, if you cant find any of a decent price but there is an asian market in your town then monosodium glutamate could be used to buffer away HCl.
 
You are going to corrode the inside of your oven.

As Elrik said, best to use a different acid right from the beginning, that way you can happily boil away on a stove top or outside.
Unless there was some specific reason you wanted to use hcl?
 
Well I dont really get your posts with safety for lungs and for my oven.

If I put my HCl into the water in the beginning, it directly dissolves and creates the acidic soup I want with a pH of like 2-4.

Then the Spice gets dissolved while cooking - afterwards the pH is still somewhere in that range. At this point it is just a salt solution, not capable of releasing HCl ever again, except when I completely remove all water, which means no solvent and even at this point I am 98 % sure that I will just be left with the salts.



Now when I reduce the hell out of this stuff, YES, if using acetic acid it also evaporates.

But even if I reduce 7 L of HCl-Soup down to 1 L, then all of the HCl stays in the soup COMPLETELY, leaving a H*DMT(+) Cl(-) soup. Meanwhile it will never release any HCl back and it does not corrode anything as no acidic gas is released. It is just a salt-solution and remains this while reducing. I did it all the time so far.

I use HCl > organic acids as I just need a slight drop of 35 % HCl to get to the desired pH and it does not smell that strong. Also I dont want to add any unneccessary organic molecules further into the soup, but this is just a personal preference.


I just seek for a faster way to get that volume down.


Yeh but STB is no option, I think its not as nice as A/B ;\


Maybe I could try to use fumar acid to let it crash out of that 7 L ? But I'm not sure how well it works with all those other crap still inside that whole mix ...
 
Hcl only stays in your soup completely if you have an equimolar amount of dmt freebase, as hcl, or a smaller number of moles of hcl compared to dmt freebase, that is, a deficiency.
If you have an excess of hcl, then it doesn't stay in your solution. It comes out slowly as a gas, as you heat your solution. Obviously you're aware that hcl is a stronger acid than acetic acid, and therefore more corrosive. That's why I mentioned your oven.

If you feel you've added an equimolar amount of hcl, then that's fine, you won't damage the metal in your oven as you heat.
So if you've added a tiny drop of hcl, you'll be fine, no issues.
 
You might wanna do the first few mins of boiling outside but I dont see the problem with that little HCl. Ofc you shouldnt bend over the pot.

Given that 35% is roughly 12 molar. Given a generous drop of 5ml thats
0.005*12=0.06 an estimate of 0.06 moles of HCl. Given a molar volume of 22.4L thats 1.344L of HCl gas. That is next to nothing given that enough of the HCl will be stuck in the base soup by binding to residiual ions of Na K or similar while displacing weaker acids like oxalic or tartaric which are commonly found in plant matter.

Ofc repeating this will start to damage your pot and will cover your kitchen with a film of "salt".(The bane of my existence in the lab. With so many squirt bottles of conc HCl theres fumes everywhere covering entire shelves in salt)
While making all iron and steel tools rust.

Naturally its best to keep all fumes away though.
 
Keep in mind, a good test to do is to moisten a piece of pH paper with distilled water and hold it in the steam for 20 seconds. If it shows an acid reaction then you are damaging everything in the room that's not glass, including yourself. HCl really has no odor, multiple times I didn't notice it until my throat started dissolving.
If you are skilled enough to reliably restrict it to a quantity that is fully buffered by the salts in the bark but still efficacious in dropping the pH to a level that prevents DMT tannate from forming, good job :thumb_up:
I'd boil the bark until the fluid was like strong tea or weak coffee before adding a volatile acid, and then I'd use the pH paper steam test.

If the pH is kept above 2 and any strong acids are buffered away by salts of weak acids, is there any reason not to gently boil bark brews on the stoves burners? Ayahuasca is gently boiled all day.
When I cook up cactus brew to extract I boil off like 12 litres of water on the stove top.
 
I've boiled down cactus teas outdoors over a wood fire. As an estimate, reducing 7L to 1L would take about 6 hours. Using home-grown and waste wood means the cost is effectively zero. The brew might gain a smoky tang but this could be regarded as adding character. This shouldn't affect a DMT extraction too greatly as the smoke aroma compounds are soluble in strong aqueous alkali.

The amount of HCl from a literal drop (~0.2mL) will be way less than Ulim's estimate (nice to see you here Ulim 😉 )
 
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