LongTimeWaiting
Rising Star
dreamer042 said:
Have you enjoyed your experiences so far? Do you think whatever chemical was created is worth pursuing? Have you gained anything from your experiences?
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Bioassay of Melatonin Doped Cubensis
- Thread starter dreamer042
- Start date
Have you enjoyed your experiences so far? Do you think whatever chemical was created is worth pursuing? Have you gained anything from your experiences?
dreamer042 said:
Cool. Any after effects? Feel more refreshed/tired?
LongTimeWaiting
Rising Star
Any updates for us, dreamer042?
Mindlusion proposed in chat that indeed we could be getting 4,7-OH-Melatonin. If so, dreamers tests indicate this is not psychedelic, but instead an interesting lucid dream and sleep molecule.
Bellow is the chat log from Mindlusion and images he uploaded. Thank you Mindlusion.
An interesting next step would be to give mushrooms mexamine. We may get 4,7-OH-5MeO, a potential novel compound. There are efforts to get mexamine from melatonin with household grade chemichals at the moment: simply dissolving melatonin in ever clear and NaOH in an airtight Kombucha bottle and letting that sit for a few weeks.
Begin chat log:
05:22:03 ‹Mindlusion›hydride can leave after the O transfer
05:22:17 ‹Mindlusion›because electrons have a place to go, the quinone
05:22:28 ‹Mindlusion›and so formally, you are adding oxygen and losing hydrogen
05:22:32 ‹Mindlusion›so it could come from water
05:22:42 ‹Mindlusion›enzymes can catalyze this
05:22:49 ‹Mindlusion›through hydride donor acceptor mechanisms
05:22:53 ‹Mindlusion›that are also quinone based
05:22:57 ‹Mindlusion›like NADH
05:23:01 ‹Mindlusion›NAD+ to NADH
05:23:04 ‹Mindlusion›and reverse
05:23:54 ‹Mindlusion›the arrows can go both ways actually depending
05:24:02 ‹Mindlusion›which hydride you want to lose
05:24:05 ‹Mindlusion›doesn't really matter
05:24:13 ‹Mindlusion›its synchronous moving of electroncs
Bellow is the chat log from Mindlusion and images he uploaded. Thank you Mindlusion.
An interesting next step would be to give mushrooms mexamine. We may get 4,7-OH-5MeO, a potential novel compound. There are efforts to get mexamine from melatonin with household grade chemichals at the moment: simply dissolving melatonin in ever clear and NaOH in an airtight Kombucha bottle and letting that sit for a few weeks.
Begin chat log:
05:22:03 ‹Mindlusion›hydride can leave after the O transfer
05:22:17 ‹Mindlusion›because electrons have a place to go, the quinone
05:22:28 ‹Mindlusion›and so formally, you are adding oxygen and losing hydrogen
05:22:32 ‹Mindlusion›so it could come from water
05:22:42 ‹Mindlusion›enzymes can catalyze this
05:22:49 ‹Mindlusion›through hydride donor acceptor mechanisms
05:22:53 ‹Mindlusion›that are also quinone based
05:22:57 ‹Mindlusion›like NADH
05:23:01 ‹Mindlusion›NAD+ to NADH
05:23:04 ‹Mindlusion›and reverse
05:23:54 ‹Mindlusion›the arrows can go both ways actually depending
05:24:02 ‹Mindlusion›which hydride you want to lose
05:24:05 ‹Mindlusion›doesn't really matter
05:24:13 ‹Mindlusion›its synchronous moving of electroncs
Thanks Loveall and Mindlusion. :thumb_up:
I think the 4,7 is a pretty good candidate. Whatever it is, the presentation is incredibly close to melatonin, only a bit more active/interesting. This is a good sign that if we manage a similarly novel 5-MeO-DMT analogue, it's presentation will be quite similar to 5-MeO-DMT itself.
I stumbled across an intriguing paper on deacetylation of alcohols with baking soda and water which I've attached. I assume there are probably factors with mela > mexamine that make it not quite that simple, but I figured I'd share it anyway just in case it sparks some new possibilities.
Bora, Utpal. "An eco-friendly and mild process for deacetylation reactions in water." Asian Journal of Chemistry 23.2 (2011): 941-942.
I think the 4,7 is a pretty good candidate. Whatever it is, the presentation is incredibly close to melatonin, only a bit more active/interesting. This is a good sign that if we manage a similarly novel 5-MeO-DMT analogue, it's presentation will be quite similar to 5-MeO-DMT itself.
I stumbled across an intriguing paper on deacetylation of alcohols with baking soda and water which I've attached. I assume there are probably factors with mela > mexamine that make it not quite that simple, but I figured I'd share it anyway just in case it sparks some new possibilities.
Bora, Utpal. "An eco-friendly and mild process for deacetylation reactions in water." Asian Journal of Chemistry 23.2 (2011): 941-942.
Not to be a wet blanket, but in reaching out to some analytical folks (may have found NMR, definitely found some other stuff 
) the first question was whether or not there was a control group grown under the same conditions without melatonin. Easy to rectify with another grow experiment...would be good to demonstrate the results as reproducible anyways, especially given some folks struggling to reproduce some Gartz work, iirc.
Second thing, hi-res LC was suggested as the next step rather than NMR, and we can get that I believe.
Awesome work, y'all
) the first question was whether or not there was a control group grown under the same conditions without melatonin. Easy to rectify with another grow experiment...would be good to demonstrate the results as reproducible anyways, especially given some folks struggling to reproduce some Gartz work, iirc.Second thing, hi-res LC was suggested as the next step rather than NMR, and we can get that I believe.
Awesome work, y'all
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions SnozzleBerry.
One question I have is, Would this allow someone to legally grow cubensis since psiloc(yb)in did not show up in MS? Would have to be done from the very beginning I guess (grain and/or liquid culture stages)
There are people who like to grow mushrooms for the fun of it, just like others grow flowers. Adding melatonin may let them do this without fear of a tyrannical government. Also, they may want to do it to consume and explore the effects on sleep. Others love/like the taste (but this seems rare).
One question I have is, Would this allow someone to legally grow cubensis since psiloc(yb)in did not show up in MS? Would have to be done from the very beginning I guess (grain and/or liquid culture stages)
There are people who like to grow mushrooms for the fun of it, just like others grow flowers. Adding melatonin may let them do this without fear of a tyrannical government. Also, they may want to do it to consume and explore the effects on sleep. Others love/like the taste (but this seems rare).
I'm no legal expert, so this is speculative but...Loveall said:
Psilocybin and Psilocin are explicitly listed, but I don't believe any mushroom species are. So, in theory, assuming we could show that these results hold, I would imagine it would allow for legally growing from spore, potentially, in states where spores are not controlled.
Something to consider, in the event someone wanted to make that case. It would seem important/worthwhile to analyze the substrate at different points in the growth process as well, to ensure that psilocybin/psilocin never appear. I don't know enough about biosynthesis, so perhaps there's no potential for the production of scheduled tryptamines in the presence of melatonin (if so, how much is adequate?), but it would be important to demonstrate that no controlled substance ever appears. Otherwise you could technically get busted for a psychoactive substrate, if there is a brief period where those compounds are present, and the cops were to obtain a sample for analysis in that window.
Just a thought. Otherwise I suspect you have a very interesting point
Below is a picture with normal mushrooms at the bottom and melashrooms at the top. I inspected the melashrooms for blueing from bruising and strugged to find it. I only found a small blueing area on one mealmushroom that had matured the most and grown very large, and found no blueing on the younger melashrooms.
I believe you can see the blueing for the normal mushrooms in the picture below, and it is very apperent when looking at them directly.
Both sets of mushrooms where grown with the same process and person and batch of inoculated grain spawn jars at different times. Only known difference in cultivation was the addition of melatonin to the water (~10mM).
Another difference is that the normal mushrooms where vacuum sealed and frozen right away while the melashrooms spent a few weeks in the fridge in a simple ziploc bag.
The melashrooms tend to bruise dark brown from what I can see in my case. Since there is a tiny bit of blue in the more mature specimen I'm afraid this may not be a sure-fire way to avoid what are (in my opponion) oppressive anti-natural government laws. Also, there are the other development stages that SnozzleBerry mentioned to worry about.
I think the lack of blueing in the younger melamushrooms is consistent with the MS result which also came from younger specimens (same batch).
I believe you can see the blueing for the normal mushrooms in the picture below, and it is very apperent when looking at them directly.
Both sets of mushrooms where grown with the same process and person and batch of inoculated grain spawn jars at different times. Only known difference in cultivation was the addition of melatonin to the water (~10mM).
Another difference is that the normal mushrooms where vacuum sealed and frozen right away while the melashrooms spent a few weeks in the fridge in a simple ziploc bag.
The melashrooms tend to bruise dark brown from what I can see in my case. Since there is a tiny bit of blue in the more mature specimen I'm afraid this may not be a sure-fire way to avoid what are (in my opponion) oppressive anti-natural government laws. Also, there are the other development stages that SnozzleBerry mentioned to worry about.
I think the lack of blueing in the younger melamushrooms is consistent with the MS result which also came from younger specimens (same batch).
Attachments
Awesome!
I assume those particular specimens haven't been analyzed yet?
I assume those particular specimens haven't been analyzed yet?
SnozzleBerry said:
Right, but other specimens from the same melashroom monotub were analyzed by Benz (MS) and dreamer with TLC + bioassay (MS and TLC shown in the first post). The melashrooms that Benz and dreamer042 got were young and from the first flush.
I believe Dreamer042 is planning to grow his own batch of melashrooms (with a time paired control I think), so it will be interesting to see if the observations repeat (different TLC spots, MS peak at 264, different bioassay, and different blueing).
One new bit of info: Benzyme was on chat this weekend. He estimates the MS peak was at 261-262 after taking into account absolute calibration (instead of 264).
LongTimeWaiting
Rising Star
Hey, does anyone have any update on this? I haven't been on in a long time and thought about this specific project a few times in the past 6-7 months or so. I would appreciate it. Thanks.
SunPatterns
Rising Star
Id like to give this a try. What is the preferred method for adding the melatonin into the growing medium? and measurements?
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