Brain injuries and drug use

[gammagore]

Yes Mr_DMT, I agree that alot of people would give up weed easier that cocaine, the endless nights of crying and depression helped me realise that coke was doing me no good, but the weed, that was a different story, very subtle, in a way that it makes you just accept things alot easier, and forget about problems.

But I was a heavy user of weed for many years, only now after having stopped it for a few weeks have I notices more ambition to do things, and get things done.

Anyway, sorry for going off the original thread topic.

 

[jamie]

I hope you are all capable of adding 1+2 and conclude that there are more studies "AGAINST" cannabis because the industry finances these studies.
Cannabis is one of the safest drugs in the world.
Of course, some people might get addicted, but we are speaking of MILLIONS of people doing it. If a few thousands get addicted - where the fk is the problem.
These people would certainly get addicted on any other drug of their choice.

A drug addict is a drug addict.
A drug benefiter, is a drug benefiter,
an abuser is an abuser
a seeker is a seeker.

Dude you know what? NOONE here is saying that weed should be illegal so what are youtrying to prove? Lots of people use cocaine occasionally and dont become addicted either..but its very addictive and should still be legal...

WAY more than a few thousand people smoke cannabis every single day man...I dont know where you are getting your info..theres more people that smoke cannabis all day than that just in BC alone..the fact is that cannabis IS addictive..noone is saying that YOU should or should not do something..but people here are speaking about how cannabis was a negative influence in they're life..

And no these people dont certainly get addicted to any other drug of their choice..thats complete bullshit..and egotistical of you to say...lots of people can quit cannabis and still take other psychedelics like mushrooms and LSD and love it to death and NOT become addicted to them the way that they do with cannabis..this has to do in part with the PHARMACOLOGY of cannabis.

If you feel like smoking than go ahead noone is telling you not to..but dont come on here and act like we're all a bunch of retards for admitting that it was indeed addictive.

 

[kyrolima]

I don't think anybody here wants any drug to be illegal.
But they want to tell me that good old cannabis makes an addict out of me


All addicts are victims of their powerlessness to control and to determine what exactly, how much and when to intake a specific substance.
If you think you won't be able to control a certain substance you shouldn't touch it.

Some people don't even ask themselves this question . They just consume.

And thats the big problem. Because nobody takes care of his self.

To put up psychedelics in your argument is nonsense. Psychedelics can not be used as recreational drugs.
And if people do that i bet they go insane very quick.

My opinion: If you are aware of your self, care about your well-being, know what you want, YOU won't do this stupid mistake and let a substance control you.

 

[jamie]

"To put up psychedelics in your argument is nonsense. Psychedelics can not be used as recreational drugs.
And if people do that i bet they go insane very quick."

And how is it nonesense? I specifically stated that it did have to do with the pharmacology of cannabis that allows it to be more easily abused the way it is compared to other psychedelics...

And uhh yes psychedelics can be used as recreational drugs..lots of people do this..I really dont know what you are talking about there..lots of people take shitty acid cut with speed etc and go out and party..I take mescaline and go to the beach..i concider that recreational..whats wrong with recreational use of psychedelics? I certainly get something out of it..I dont know why some people are against recreational use..I cant even recall how many times I have read about people taking mescaline and going to the movies etc..nothing wrong with that. It's all pharmacology..you cant really drink aya and go to the movies and act to normal though..the pharmacology involved in that can end in chaos.

You are right though I personally cannot use these psychedelics in most everyday situations the way that cannabis lends itself to everyday use..thats the pharmacological difference between cannabis and trad psychedelics..and thats basically what i said.

You seem to be getting angry over the fact that someone would say that cannabis is addictive, and comming up with all these reasons blaming the person instead of the substance..which is in part correct, but really what is the difference? the pharmacology of the substance is part of how it effects the person and the person responds a certian way to the effects...cannabis just has certain effects that seemed to me to strengthen addictive/compulsive habits..whereas psychedelics like LSD and psilocin seem to pull me out of those habbits and allow me to see those habits for what they really are...

THis is why things like mescaline and psilocin and ayahuasca are used to help drug addicts..where with cannabis all i see is people trading cocaine or crack etc for cannabis addiction instead..which obviousily is a good thing..but different from the way the psychedelics actaully break these habits altogether.

 

[Pokey]

I thought this thread was about brain injury and drug use.......

 

[SnozzleBerry]

I thought this thread was about brain injury and drug use.......

Bump

It spiralled out of control (off topic), as many web threads do, when the addictive properties of cannabis were brought up.

 

[Kartikay]

I thought this thread was about brain injury and drug use.......

One topic leads to another. Such is how conversations work, even on the interwebs.

I don't think anybody here wants any drug to be illegal.

I can see the merit to the argument that all drugs should be made legal. I can also see the merit to the argument that some drugs are so addictive or bad for the body that they should remain illegal, like heroine or methamphetamine, respectively. I tend to agree that in order to stop gang violence, all drugs must be made legal. I also think that before we can legalize all drugs, there has to be a more effective method/organization established for educating the young about the true nature of each drug. It isn't just survival of the fittest if we are at fault for not properly educating children about the risks. DARE fails epically due to bias. I'd rather see Erowid teaching our kids than them.

But in the spirit of agreement, Mr_DMT, it is true that legalizing drugs would take them off the street. If there was a minimum age requirement (I fully support age requirements for drugs), then they couldn't even get them at the pharmacy. The pathetic business that dealers would have from selling solely to kids (since anyone else could buy it themselves at the pharmacy) wouldn't even be worth it.

 

[kyrolima]

"To put up psychedelics in your argument is nonsense. Psychedelics can not be used as recreational drugs.
And if people do that i bet they go insane very quick."

And how is it nonesense? I specifically stated that it did have to do with the pharmacology of cannabis that allows it to be more easily abused the way it is compared to other psychedelics...

And uhh yes psychedelics can be used as recreational drugs..lots of people do this..I really dont know what you are talking about there..lots of people take shitty acid cut with speed etc and go out and party..I take mescaline and go to the beach..i concider that recreational..whats wrong with recreational use of psychedelics? I certainly get something out of it..I dont know why some people are against recreational use..I cant even recall how many times I have read about people taking mescaline and going to the movies etc..nothing wrong with that. It's all pharmacology..you cant really drink aya and go to the movies and act to normal though..the pharmacology involved in that can end in chaos.

You are right though I personally cannot use these psychedelics in most everyday situations the way that cannabis lends itself to everyday use..thats the pharmacological difference between cannabis and trad psychedelics..and thats basically what i said.

You seem to be getting angry over the fact that someone would say that cannabis is addictive, and comming up with all these reasons blaming the person instead of the substance..which is in part correct, but really what is the difference? the pharmacology of the substance is part of how it effects the person and the person responds a certian way to the effects...cannabis just has certain effects that seemed to me to strengthen addictive/compulsive habits..whereas psychedelics like LSD and psilocin seem to pull me out of those habbits and allow me to see those habits for what they really are...

THis is why things like mescaline and psilocin and ayahuasca are used to help drug addicts..where with cannabis all i see is people trading cocaine or crack etc for cannabis addiction instead..which obviousily is a good thing..but different from the way the psychedelics actaully break these habits altogether.

You are certainly not addicted to psychedelics and won't use them daily (that's what i meant by "recreational usw"). You just can't do that.. thats what I was trying to say.
Of course you HAVE to blame the person and NOT the substance.
At least I think that.
If a person recognizes, he needs a certain drug to get trough the day there have to be alarming signals in the head. He has to realize that this cannot be the right path, doing a drug on a daily basis.

If you are concerned about your sanity you won't let something like that come up.

 

[polytrip]

I hope you are all capable of adding 1+2 and conclude that there are more studies "AGAINST" cannabis because the industry finances these studies.
Cannabis is one of the safest drugs in the world.
Of course, some people might get addicted, but we are speaking of MILLIONS of people doing it. If a few thousands get addicted - where the fk is the problem.
These people would certainly get addicted on any other drug of their choice.

A drug addict is a drug addict.
A drug benefiter, is a drug benefiter,
an abuser is an abuser
a seeker is a seeker.

You're doing exactly what i sayd: you're pretending there is no objective scientifif truth, because it suits your political doctrine about legalisation of cannabis while at the same time you're acting as if that doctrine IS an objective truth.

You cannot realy believe that all science is corrupt, while at the same time believing that there are strong objective arguments for the claim cannabis is harmless.

I'm very much for legalizing the stuff, but the main argument for this is of a moral nature and not false, health claims, fabricated for this purpose.

Twisting, bending and fabricating facts, raising doubts on the integrity of sources of information that doesn't suit you, that's politicizing facts and issues. I find that a dishonest way of having a discussion and i also find that that type of behaviour is exactly what's wrong with politics these days.

It's exactly what the bush administration did in iraq.
Once we start having no respect for facts, we enter a fantasyworld and that could lead us into many more iraq's to come, if we don't watch out.

 

[kyrolima]

You're doing exactly what i sayd: you're pretending there is no objective scientifif truth, because it suits your political doctrine about legalisation of cannabis while at the same time you're acting as if that doctrine IS an objective truth.

You cannot realy believe that all science is corrupt, while at the same time believing that there are strong objective arguments for the claim cannabis is harmless.

I'm very much for legalizing the stuff, but the main argument for this is of a moral nature and not false, health claims, fabricated for this purpose.

Twisting, bending and fabricating facts, raising doubts on the integrity of sources of information that doesn't suit you, that's politicizing facts and issues. I find that a dishonest way of having a discussion and i also find that that type of behaviour is exactly what's wrong with politics these days.

It's exactly what the bush administration did in iraq.
Once we start having no respect for facts, we enter a fantasyworld and that could lead us into many more iraq's to come, if we don't watch out.

I just trust my personal experience. Scientific "reasons" for or against anything should be regarded as a small hint, but not the egg of the columbus.

 

[Kartikay]

I just trust my personal experience. Scientific "reasons" for or against anything should be regarded as a small hint, but not the egg of the columbus.

Why? Case studies and individual stories should never be looked at with more favor than a repeatable experiment with a compilation of dozens or hundreds or thousands of samples from a population. That's what science does, it uses a huge sample size to eliminate or minimize the chance that the data is not based on just one or two people's personal experiences. You can already see why this is important from a sample of responses from this thread. See below:

It was alot easier for me to kick my terrible cocaine habbit than it was to kick my weed habbit.

Here we have an uncommon personal report.

That statement makes me think a little bit, but i think that the majority of people has a different experience. In general people will be more likely to quit weed than cocaine.

Here you realize that it is more important to look at the "majority of people" rather than just one person's experiences. that is what science is interested in as well.

Yes Mr_DMT, I agree that alot of people would give up weed easier that cocaine

Here, gammagore recognizes that his own personal experience is not the common one. This is a healthy attitude. While personal experiences are important, it is more important to recognize the common or general effect of a drug when discussing it in the general public.

 

[soulfood]

I just trust my personal experience. Scientific "reasons" for or against anything should be regarded as a small hint, but not the egg of the columbus.

Well, it is good to pay attention to your body, but not all personal damage hits like a sledgehammer, most personal damage will build up slowly over time. Your body is no good at detecting problems of such a manner,

 

[kyrolima]

If you feed yourself poison you can not expect sanity.
But if you feed yourself medicine, or healthy food then you can expect a healthy body.
I consider cannabis as medicine and healthy food (hemp nuts, hemp oil etc. etc)

I see the plant as a whole. This plant is certainly a divine plant, because it has so much benefit to the human being.
I hope you can see clearly now, that i don't care what science has to say about it!

 

[Kartikay]

This plant is certainly a divine plant, because it has so much benefit to the human being.

I believe that science is more divine than any plant. It has more to offer humankind than anything we've ever discovered or created.

 

[soulfood]

I hope you can see clearly now, that i don't care what science has to say about it!

I could see that clearly weeks ago. Your stubborn... I get it But that's why I love you.

 

[jamie]

If you feed yourself poison you can not expect sanity.
But if you feed yourself medicine, or healthy food then you can expect a healthy body.
I consider cannabis as medicine and healthy food (hemp nuts, hemp oil etc. etc)

I see the plant as a whole. This plant is certainly a divine plant, because it has so much benefit to the human being.
I hope you can see clearly now, that i don't care what science has to say about it!

None said it was poison..I think your taking peoples words out of context serve yourself..

You know coca is a medicine as well..so are poppies...and dare I say it..heroin.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

This has become a thread of hypocrisy as words are hastily being shovelled back into the mouths of those who speak them. The inconsistencies that seem to abound since the switch of focus to addiction (specifically related to cannabis) seem to stem from certain individuals arguing against science when it contradicts their personal experience and for science in a larger "data set". What seems to be getting lost is that your individual experience is one point in that data set. That's exactly why science is useful, because it speaks to those phenomena that occur through time with consistency.

I find this thread highly unsettling and am disturbed by the deflection that seems to be going on.

To comment on the above post as an example...

I see the plant as a whole. This plant is certainly a divine plant, because it has so much benefit to the human being.
I hope you can see clearly now, that i don't care what science has to say about it!

As to the holistic thing, you clearly don't, because if you saw it as a whole you would understand that like any foreign chemical substance, it is not healthy to oversaturate or continuously expose your body to it. Again, it may not have acute physical symptoms (in your case), but it WILL affect you.

As to you not caring what science says, then why were so many of your retorts about studies? If you don't care, fine, don't care, but don't say you don't care when presented with studies contrary to your viewpoint, then turn around, point to some scientific studies and say "I told you so!"

Great point Fractal! There are many plants that are used as medicine. The Hmong use opium for various ailments, yet their culture prescribes the methods and duration of administration as well as stigmatizes addicts...Medicinal plants do have their place, but throughout history (much of it third world and unrecorded) humans have limited the use of even these beautiful herbacious wonders. Doesn't that tell you anything? Or at least suggest it?

 

[kyrolima]

As to the holistic thing, you clearly don't, because if you saw it as a whole you would understand that like any foreign chemical substance, it is not healthy to oversaturate or continuously expose your body to it. Again, it may not have acute physical symptoms (in your case), but it WILL affect you.

??
i stated before that im not in favour of daily or excessive use.
A chemical substance is just a label which was created by scientists on nature. The apple exists without the human saying "this is an apple".
Many substances will never get identified and scientists won't find out about them. Science can never get close to reality. Because at the moment they are getting close, things are getting illogical and don't make sense anymore.
Because reality isn't logic!

 

[Czepa]

I think there is a risk. I basically believe that many psychedelic drugs have a health effect of wich whether it's positive or negative depends on how you respond to it.

Let me say that the state of mind created by all drugs is some form of distortion of brain functions.
DMT as well as most other psychedelic drugs, temporarily diminishes some brainfunctions so your reaction speed, memory, etc will be temporarily diminished to some extend.

I believe that in most people there is some sort of 'rebounce' effect, a quick recovery from this, that basically has a positive effect, many people feel as 'afterglow'. Physical exercise also leads to a sort of recovery reaction of the damage done to your body by intense physical strain, and this is why exercise is healthy for most people.

If somehow your ability to recover is diminished, then i think you should avoid these things. I believe that this is why some people get psychotic or depressed from the use of psychedelic's: their system doesn't have the power to recover from the temporary shut-down.

If your brain needs all it's energy to rewire itself, wich can last for many years, than i think you should not put extra strains on it's regenerative powers.

I feel what you're saying here. I've had alot of issues in my life that have lead to some sort of depression. and maybe the use of alot of my pseudo escapist drugs has contributed. cause ive always been way more effected by drugs than other people my age.

with what you said about recovery, i kind of feel like shit lately. or atleast the last 3 months and ive got darker patches of skin under my eyes. even though i stopped my daily smoking of a jwh018 blend called "aroma". maybe i should listen to my grandmother and stop filling my life with hope cause its probably just dragging me down and killing me softly. Im not going to change my decision on trying dmt but maybe you're right about other substances. respect the vessel

EDIT: the last 3 times Ive smoked any cannabinoid (been having long breaks to try give up)Ive spewed up and greened out from >half of a "normal" dose

 

[polytrip]

I wouldn't give up hope.

I don't know your exact situation, but i would spent all of my energy on recovering from what has happened to you. It might take years, and i cna't judge the seriousness of your situation, but time and effort can do an awfull lot in a human life.

When i was 6 years old, something happened that nearly costed my life and it took years to fully recover from it. I was physically a wreck till my 11th birhday, but i've allmost completely forgotten about it now and i think i'm even healthier than most men of my age.

So from personal experience i would say that time can heal almost anything, if you try to live a healthy life with a good diet, enough sleep, etc.