Breaking through the breakthrough with extreme doses

[arcanum]

EZ4U2Shoot, your post of Feb. 2008 was a joy to read, with a dose of 65mg you clearly had a remarkable experience, indicative of someone displaying a "normal" sensitivity to DMT. Your story goes pear shaped at the end of the thread of 26th August, with the brag about 800mg+ doses in a sitting. If you had an insensitivity to DMT it would have manifested itself on the first trial as a mild or non event.

Sorry, but to say your story is implausible is being overtly polite. Sounds like taking the piss to me.

 

[EZ4U2Shoot]

...
...
I don’t doubt that some people need very high doses to achieve effects, but I doubt very much that a person of average sensitivity will “break through the breakthrough” at unusually high doses. Beyond a certain dose, there are diminishing returns.

Some personal observations regarding dosing:

Here’s what happened to me the one time I took a “higher than average” dose: As I was inhaling, I glanced at the clock (as I usually do). I finished inhaling the dose and closed my eyes. I immediately opened my eyes and looked at the clock, only to see that about 12 minutes had passed.

My deepest, most intense experiences were not my highest-dose experience. In fact, these types of experience almost always catch me off guard, because they are totally unexpected given the dose consumed. Beyond a certain minimum dose, depth of experience no longer correlates with size of dose.

I agree with you, Brother, on much of what you say. I definitely agree that you cannot "break through the breakthrough". That was something that Master Bassface said when he started this. Breakthrough, to me, is measured by that moment when ego death occurs and you lose awareness of your physical existence and (in your mind) time is irrelevant and existence is infinite.

I also agree there is a point of diminishing return. I think that point varies from person to person and tolerance build up will also affect it. If you have found the level that you are most comfortable with, then stick with it. Don't let anyone persuade you otherwise. Find what is right for you and go with it. I suspect that, while it is different for everyone, it also changes over time for everyone. So what might be right for you today, may not be the same in 5 years time.

 

[EZ4U2Shoot]

EZ4U2Shoot - Clearly Traveler feels differently about this (and you) than I do. I hate that you are being indulged and allowed to expound upon your "mega dose" ideas here.

In the first place, I just don't believe you. I'm sorry, but for whatever reason, I think you are embellishing in an attempt to set yourself apart. This is nothing new and it's not such a mystery. It's what insecure drug users do. You're clearly invested in the concept that you are some kind of physiological anomaly and a deeper traveler of psychedelic realms than anyone else anywhere.

In the second place, embellished or not, wolf8312 is exactly right that this is crack head behavior. What you are describing (while not actually plausible) is extremely egregious abuse, and whether or not it's even true is really beside the point. You're trying to legitimize grotesque and dangerous drug abuse. You're trying to romanticize it as something it's not and yourself as boldly going where others dare not go.

I call bullshit. I'm sorry, Traveler, but this is bad mojo right here.

Art, it’s alright that you don’t believe and it’s ok to think its embellishment. I could present evidence and argument to show otherwise, as I have, but that would be fruitless and it still would not change your mind. Since you are not my wife I do not feel the necessity to do so.

However, please, do not think that I am “being indulged”. This crap is time consuming and exhausting. I have, out of courtesy for a friend, taken the time present accurate information accompanied with fair warning of dangers. It is out of my own feeling of obligation to that end that I see this through and so your opinions and thoughts in those regards have no weight in comparison to my obligations and because of this you cannot tarnish my honor.

As for abuse, I will first refer you to my reply to wolf8312. Secondly, IF you do DMT for recreational purposes then I might argue that THAT is abuse. Although, on a few occasions, I have done it recreationally, I do not use The Spice for recreation. At first, it was experimentation. Now I use The Spice strictly for personal spiritual exploration.


I would only add one thing. The only bad mojo that I have seen in this thread has been that which you have stirred up. That is just an observation and I apologize because I realize that sounds like an insult. I do not mean it to be, but to be honest, there isn't much other way to put it.

 

[tetra]

I plan on pharmahuasca (200mg DMT with 30mg harmaloid) coupled with smoke

Have you not done this? Just as jamie said, if you really want to plumb the depths, you must drink. In my early DMT days, all of a year ago, I found myself smoking too much and not getting the results as advertised. Enter caapi and later syrian rue, and I've never smoked boring ole freebase alone again. All of my journeys are pharma with changa on the side. You say you smoke for personal spiritual reasons, well, it doesn't get more personal
than oral DMT.

30mg harmaloid? C'mon, you can do better than that. 4 grams syrian rue is more like it. 200mg DMT is a good place to start (I'm a 222-300mg man myself).

 

[EZ4U2Shoot]

Here’s something I’m curious about regarding mega-dosers: How do you manage to inhale all that vapor?

25-30mg of DMT, when properly vaporized, produces a dense, thick lungful of vapor. I doubt very much that more than about 50mg could be inhaled in a single breath. If that’s the case, it would take at least 20 monstrously large hits of dense vapor to inhale 1g of DMT.

So what about the time? A single inhalation takes maybe 20 seconds. Hold for another 20 seconds. Exhale for a few more seconds, then take another 13 seconds or so to get a breath or two of fresh air. For repeated hits, each hit would take about 1 minute. 20 to 30 hits, if taken with intense determination, would take between 20 and 30 minutes to do. Even if one is inhaling inert vapor, this would be very difficult to do.

Also, assuming that one is completely insensitive to DMT and isn’t far out in hyperspace after the first inhalation or two, the effects of early doses would already be waning by the time you take the final doses 20 – 30 minutes later.

The whole thing seems very implausible.

I think I understand your thinking here. Understand that when doing those doses, it is not one long hit. Generally, I can inhale the smoke from only about 80-100mg in one long slow inhale which lasts almost 30 seconds. When I use a vaporizer, I can get a little more than that. As for going through more than a gram, keep in mind that this is done over a period of time that lasts between 4 and 8 hours, usually being about 5 or 6 hours. After that 4-8 hours I reach the end of the ride and it doesn't matter how large of a dose I inhale, it does nothing at that point. At the end of the night, I CAN smoke 5 100mg hits back to back and it is just a waste because it doesn't even give me a tingle at that point, just a sore throat.

Also, before I smoke The Spice, I first smoke a harmaloid freebase extracted from peganum harmala which is a fairly good MAOI. Because of the harmaloids, the onset of blastoff is delayed. Whereas with straight Spice, blastoff begins within about 45 seconds to a minute, with the MAOI blastoff doesn't completely happen for about 5 minutes or so. Instead of being so immediate it works up a little slower.

 

[EZ4U2Shoot]

EZ4U2Shoot, your post of Feb. 2008 was a joy to read, with a dose of 65mg you clearly had a remarkable experience, indicative of someone displaying a "normal" sensitivity to DMT. Your story goes pear shaped at the end of the thread of 26th August, with the brag about 800mg+ doses in a sitting. If you had an insensitivity to DMT it would have manifested itself on the first trial as a mild or non event.

Sorry, but to say your story is implausible is being overtly polite. Sounds like taking the piss to me.

Understand Brother. It wasn't a brag, but an inquiry. You might also notice from the next post that over time I started doing larger amounts in one sitting. Some of this, without a doubt, was because of a tolerance building up.

Also, I don't suggest that my sensitivity is not normal. A strait 65mg dose still gets me to right about the same place as it did then as long as I haven't done anything within a week and no mega dosing for at least a month. What is different is that when I break through I do not simply drop the pipe and go on. As I stated earlier, I just keep smoking without any conscious effort. It is as though my body goes on doing what it is doing while my mind and spirit leave my body. As a result, I have had experiences that are thousands of times more intense than that very first time.

 

[EZ4U2Shoot]

I plan on pharmahuasca (200mg DMT with 30mg harmaloid) coupled with smoke

Have you not done this? Just as jamie said, if you really want to plumb the depths, you must drink. In my early DMT days, all of a year ago, I found myself smoking too much and not getting the results as advertised. Enter caapi and later syrian rue, and I've never smoked boring ole freebase alone again. All of my journeys are pharma with changa on the side. You say you smoke for personal spiritual reasons, well, it doesn't get more personal
than oral DMT.

30mg harmaloid? C'mon, you can do better than that. 4 grams syrian rue is more like it. 200mg DMT is a good place to start (I'm a 222-300mg man myself).

LOL 30mg of harmaloid freebase is equivalent to about 3 grams of syrian rue. And yes, the last time I Spiced was almost 9 months ago. The last time I did the Spice I took 200mg harmaloid freebase orally (2 capsules not completely full) and 1200mg DMT orally (fit in 7 capsules completely filled). Then proceeded to smoke about 50mg of harmaloid freebase immediately followed by 3 consecutive 100mg hits of DMT. By the time that third hit kicked in I started throwing up and when I finished throwing up I died and left my body and didn't return for at least 5 hours.

Like I said, it has been almost 9 months and the simple fact is that I do not have any way to know just how much the tolerance build up had to do with it. There was a year strait that I took the Spice every weekend. So, I decided to find out what kind of tolerance I built up. That is why I decided to take a 9 month hiatus from the Spice.

I'm not foolish, I will ease back in. That is why I figure start with 200mg DMT and 30mg harmaloid orally and just lay out some of both to smoke and see what happens from there. Try a hit or two and see how I feel.

 

[tetra]

I took 200mg harmaloid freebase orally (2 capsules not completely full) and 1200mg DMT orally (fit in 7 capsules completely filled). Then proceeded to smoke about 50mg of harmaloid freebase immediately followed by 3 consecutive 100mg hits of DMT. By the time that third hit kicked in I started throwing up and when I finished throwing up I died and left my body and didn't return for at least 5 hours.

I hate to say it, but what's wrong with you? What rational mind thinks this is a good idea? It does seem rather obsessive-compulsive. Where's your patience? You couldn't start at even a moderate oral dose? I only throw up when I take too much or am having a rough time and just need to purge. Next time you try oral, wait a whooooole freaking hour (long time, I know) before you smoke, and then just take a moderate puff to kick start things. But please note that by your own admission, you didn't smoke anywhere near a gram when matched with rue (not counting the 1200mg you threw up); no blind reaching for the pipe then, heh heh heh.

So, be honest, you really took a break from the molecule because your four kilo a month mhrb habit was eating into rent money, yes?

 

[universecannon]

I plan on pharmahuasca (200mg DMT with 30mg harmaloid) coupled with smoke

Have you not done this? Just as jamie said, if you really want to plumb the depths, you must drink. In my early DMT days, all of a year ago, I found myself smoking too much and not getting the results as advertised. Enter caapi and later syrian rue, and I've never smoked boring ole freebase alone again. All of my journeys are pharma with changa on the side. You say you smoke for personal spiritual reasons, well, it doesn't get more personal
than oral DMT.

30mg harmaloid? C'mon, you can do better than that. 4 grams syrian rue is more like it. 200mg DMT is a good place to start (I'm a 222-300mg man myself).

LOL 30mg of harmaloid freebase is equivalent to about 3 grams of syrian rue. And yes, the last time I Spiced was almost 9 months ago. The last time I did the Spice I took 200mg harmaloid freebase orally (2 capsules not completely full) and 1200mg DMT orally (fit in 7 capsules completely filled). Then proceeded to smoke about 50mg of harmaloid freebase immediately followed by 3 consecutive 100mg hits of DMT. By the time that third hit kicked in I started throwing up and when I finished throwing up I died and left my body and didn't return for at least 5 hours.

Like I said, it has been almost 9 months and the simple fact is that I do not have any way to know just how much the tolerance build up had to do with it. There was a year strait that I took the Spice every weekend. So, I decided to find out what kind of tolerance I built up. That is why I decided to take a 9 month hiatus from the Spice.

I'm not foolish, I will ease back in. That is why I figure start with 200mg DMT and 30mg harmaloid orally and just lay out some of both to smoke and see what happens from there. Try a hit or two and see how I feel.

Um...30mg is NOT in ANY WAY AT ALL comparable to 3 grams of syrian rue. And you say you took 200mg..which, by that logic, would be what then? 20grams of syrian rue. That all makes zero sense

I haven't read this whole thread but to me this just seems like either lies, wreck-less use, abuse, extreme insensitivity, stupidity, or more probable-some mix of all of the above

 

[jamie]

I plan on pharmahuasca (200mg DMT with 30mg harmaloid) coupled with smoke

Have you not done this? Just as jamie said, if you really want to plumb the depths, you must drink. In my early DMT days, all of a year ago, I found myself smoking too much and not getting the results as advertised. Enter caapi and later syrian rue, and I've never smoked boring ole freebase alone again. All of my journeys are pharma with changa on the side. You say you smoke for personal spiritual reasons, well, it doesn't get more personal
than oral DMT.

30mg harmaloid? C'mon, you can do better than that. 4 grams syrian rue is more like it. 200mg DMT is a good place to start (I'm a 222-300mg man myself).

Yeah dude..30mg? try 2-300mg harmalas and then you will find out just how deep you can actaully go. Most people here talk about the "DMT breakthrough" etc etc..that is nothing compared to a full dose of ayahuasca that contains enough harmalas for you to enter full on harmala dreams with a good dose of DMT on top of that. I know this wont be a popular opinion but it makes any ammount of vaped DMT alone loook like childs play in comparison.

30mg of harmlalas wont do much of anything whe it comes to activation of oral DMT..you will get more from 200mg of harmalas with 30mg of DMT than you will from 30mg of harmalas with 200mg of DMT. That is just a giant and silly waste of DMT.

If you are looking for an experience rich in spiritual depth, larger psychedelic doses of the harmalas as the base is the way to go..then add the DMT to that-and be careful..no ammount of large vaped doses will prepare you for some of the places this can take you. Vaped DMT alone(or with little 30mg etc doses of harmalas) just has a limit IMO in terms of what it can do compared to ayahuasca and analogue brews prepared in a way that mirrors jungle ayahausca-which means heavy on the harmalas.

 

[EZ4U2Shoot]

I took 200mg harmaloid freebase orally (2 capsules not completely full) and 1200mg DMT orally (fit in 7 capsules completely filled). Then proceeded to smoke about 50mg of harmaloid freebase immediately followed by 3 consecutive 100mg hits of DMT. By the time that third hit kicked in I started throwing up and when I finished throwing up I died and left my body and didn't return for at least 5 hours.

I hate to say it, but what's wrong with you? What rational mind thinks this is a good idea? It does seem rather obsessive-compulsive. Where's your patience? You couldn't start at even a moderate oral dose? I only throw up when I take too much or am having a rough time and just need to purge. Next time you try oral, wait a whooooole freaking hour (long time, I know) before you smoke, and then just take a moderate puff to kick start things. But please note that by your own admission, you didn't smoke anywhere near a gram when matched with rue (not counting the 1200mg you threw up); no blind reaching for the pipe then, heh heh heh.

So, be honest, you really took a break from the molecule because your four kilo a month mhrb habit was eating into rent money, yes?

LOL. Nah Brother. I smoked every bit that I left in my pyrex dish, which was about a gram. Either way, I went through over 2 grams that night. I'm not saying that it is a regular thing. In fact, finding the "perfect" dose has always been the secondary goal. The primary being to reach a certain state that I have no name for but I know what it feels like. I was narrowing in on that nice balance which, for me, seemed to be around 400-600mg DMT 50-100 harmaloid pharmahuasca kicked in by 50mg harmaloid 400mg DMT fumahuasca. And I always throw up if I take even as little as 10mg of harmaloid or if I smoke DMT without anything else.

As far as the rent, rent is priority. Family is first priority. Besides, I bought MHRB in 12 or 24 lbs and kept it in the freezer and 12lbs would be enough to last 4 months at least. Now when I got laid off, I had to ration so I made 3 lbs last for almost 8 months but I wasn't purchasing any while I was laid off.

Like I've said, my only addiction is tobacco. I take care of the family first. Meet all of the needs. Then some of the wants. Then get my tobacco. Then take care of more of the wife and kids wants. Then I get something once or twice a year, tax return and my birthday. Usually, my intention is simply to get my years supply at tax time and don't worry about it again.

 

[jamie]

"LOL 30mg of harmaloid freebase is equivalent to about 3 grams of syrian rue."

Real funny..

To bad that statement is just bullshit.

3g of rue adverages about 120mg harmalas.

 

[jamie]

"I took 200mg harmaloid freebase orally (2 capsules not completely full) and 1200mg DMT orally (fit in 7 capsules completely filled). Then proceeded to smoke about 50mg of harmaloid freebase immediately followed by 3 consecutive 100mg hits of DMT."

Sure you did :roll:

It is truely sad when people have to make this sort of stuff up.

 

[EZ4U2Shoot]

I plan on pharmahuasca (200mg DMT with 30mg harmaloid) coupled with smoke

Have you not done this? Just as jamie said, if you really want to plumb the depths, you must drink. In my early DMT days, all of a year ago, I found myself smoking too much and not getting the results as advertised. Enter caapi and later syrian rue, and I've never smoked boring ole freebase alone again. All of my journeys are pharma with changa on the side. You say you smoke for personal spiritual reasons, well, it doesn't get more personal
than oral DMT.

30mg harmaloid? C'mon, you can do better than that. 4 grams syrian rue is more like it. 200mg DMT is a good place to start (I'm a 222-300mg man myself).

Yeah dude..30mg? try 2-300mg harmalas and then you will find out just how deep you can actaully go. Most people here talk about the "DMT breakthrough" etc etc..that is nothing compared to a full dose of ayahuasca that contains enough harmalas for you to enter full on harmala dreams with a good dose of DMT on top of that. I know this wont be a popular opinion but it makes any ammount of vaped DMT alone loook like childs play in comparison.

30mg of harmlalas wont do much of anything whe it comes to activation of oral DMT..you will get more from 200mg of harmalas with 30mg of DMT than you will from 30mg of harmalas with 200mg of DMT. That is just a giant and silly waste of DMT.

If you are looking for an experience rich in spiritual depth, larger psychedelic doses of the harmalas as the base is the way to go..then add the DMT to that-and be careful..no ammount of large vaped doses will prepare you for some of the places this can take you. Vaped DMT alone(or with little 30mg etc doses of harmalas) just has a limit IMO in terms of what it can do compared to ayahuasca and analogue brews prepared in a way that mirrors jungle ayahausca-which means heavy on the harmalas.

I apologize, numbers getting mixed up there let me redo math.

OK, from 1 gram of syrian rue seed I extract about 1.5% - 3% harmaloid freebase. Which is 150 to 300 mg harmaloid freebase. 30mg is what I would smoke for one hit of 75mg DMT, 200mg should be good for ingestion. Which is why if you go back to the earlier posts in this thread the 30 doesn't fit... You'll notice that previous reference was 100-200mg harmaloid, which is fine for making DMT active.

So I apologize, when I said "I plan on pharmahuasca (200mg DMT with 30mg harmaloid) coupled with smoke " that would be inaccurate. I am certain that even if you had not brought this to my attention I would have measured and recognized that it just wasn't a big enough pile. I would notice as soon as I tried to fill the pill capsules.

 

[EZ4U2Shoot]

"I took 200mg harmaloid freebase orally (2 capsules not completely full) and 1200mg DMT orally (fit in 7 capsules completely filled). Then proceeded to smoke about 50mg of harmaloid freebase immediately followed by 3 consecutive 100mg hits of DMT."

Sure you did :roll:

It is truely sad when people have to make this sort of stuff up.

OK. Now, I have no problem admitting when I make a mistake. As just a moment ago, but this is petty and ridiculous.


What is truly sad here is how the level of maturity has diminished on The Nexus. It has been quite rare that I post anything. The only reason I got into this in the first place was because of a request from a Brother. I had no intention of posting anything more than my initial remark directed towards Master Bassface who started this thread.

What is truly sad is that the immature and adolescent remarks obviously chased a Brother in Spice away from The Nexus. It is truly sad that a person can fulfill a request from a friend because of honor and obligation, and then so many people so insecure with themselves would contradict the truth and attempt to offend his honor. That is what is truly sad.

Well, my friend. I tried to provide what you requested of me but I think I'm done. I'm afraid that my effort is better spent elsewhere. (If you are the friend I address these lines to then you know who you are.)

If anyone has serious inquiries I might consider replying, but I will no longer waste my efforts any further.

Now I believe I understand Proverbs 26:4-5

 

[jamie]

thank god.

 

[۩]

thank god.

How is a post like this in any way effective or positive?

All I see from some of you in this thread is arrogance and thick headedness.

It saddens me to see, just like it saddens me to see Ez hounded off of our forum simply for being different.

 

[jamie]

well you can have your opinion thats fine. I have mine. Deal with it.

 

[jamie]

Does anyone really buy the idea that someone can ingest 200mg of harmalas, and then take over a gram of oral DMT..and then proceed to smoke 3 hits of DMT, all 100mg each without blackout out before they can finish doing this?

It is rediculous to make claims like this and be so arrogant to be sure of yourself when you are not even sure of what harmala doses are..lol'ing at other people who correctly point out your misunderstandings in reguards to harmala dosing?

Why are they not open to the idea that maybe they load up 300mg into a pipe and take 3 big hits but are still no consuming 300mg? That is the only thing that makes sense. Has anyone else who has even tried loading more then like 150mg been able to vape all that, and actaully get all of it vaped and not black out within seconds?

I can imagine someone eating 200mg of harmals. I can imagine someone then injesting over a gram of DMT(though why they would I cant freaking understand)..I can even imagine that before I kicks in and they black out from a DMT OD that they can then put a pipe to their lips with 300mg in it. I dont believe for one second that they are going to then take 3 100mg hits.

Why this person is so sure about this I dont understand.

I can understand this maybe if they extracted weird bunk DMT..though that would still mean what they are saying is not correct.

Why are people gullable enough to believe that someone can do that?

Why does someone need to come here being so sure of themselves this way, when every other person knows from experience that even taking 3 hits in a row of 100mg of DMT each hit even without the pharma seems rediculous and extremely overly exagerated.

 

[gibran2]

Taking large doses of DMT orally with MAOI is very serious business. If I remember correctly, a fatal dose of DMT is in the “several grams” range.

Assuming one had enough MAOI in their system, and assuming one doesn’t vomit most of the dose, a large oral dose of DMT (several grams) could kill you.