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Caapi Copy

Migrated topic.
I asked FV "What is the TTH/Harmine/Harmaline in your caapi copy? Is it 3:8:1 respectively?"

The reply back was...
Harmine is the main component, with just slightly less THH, and a very small amount of harmaline. That “3:8:1” ratio you mentioned would be too high in harmine and too high in harmaline.

These guys sell a great product, have the right attitude, and are serious about product quality. I am going to keep going back to these guys!

SWIM is going to take the following formula tonight.
20mg harmaline
20mg harmine
160mg THH
100mg DMT Fumarate

Wish him luck!
 
a1pha said:
antrocles said:
a1pha- where'd SWIY get that MHRB tincture? sounds quite interesting...especially considering my recent experiences with tinctures...
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I make it myself. I put about 1/4 pound whole mhrb in a jar and fill it about a quarter way up with grain alcohol. Shake shake shake for a week and you're left with some incredible dark purple/yellow tincture. I then fill up a number of 1oz dropper bottles with this, each being two doses. I then repeat the process adding more alcohol until I feel it's exhausted.

Sorry for the poor description but I let intuition, not science, guide me. This method has been working very (very) well. It's also like nothing I've read on this forum or anywhere else. Yes, I am n00b so I don't have much of a reference point. Best I can describe I've found the keys to heaven...
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That sounds pretty sweet. Would powdered mhrb work just as well? Just mix with a ratio of 4:1 with grain alcohol?

So you just down half a fluid ounce full, or mix it with a lot of water?
 
mapp said:
a1pha said:
That sounds pretty sweet. Would powdered mhrb work just as well? Just mix with a ratio of 4:1 with grain alcohol?

So you just down half a fluid ounce full, or mix it with a lot of water?
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I haven't tested powder yet. I have some coming this week along with non-powdered. The non-powdered is nice b/c the bark can soak in the alcohol, pull the alks, and be easily poured out.

Yes, I just down half fl ounce. I do this about 45min after inhibition. It works quickly as the alcohol aids in absorption.

Do any of the chemists in the room have suggestions on more refined methods of tincture?
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SWIM says...

"that dose was pretty strong. Next time I will do 150mg or 200mgDMT Fumarate, 70mg THH, 100mg Harmine, and 30mg harmaline. My interest in DMT has always primarily been from an academic point of view, so I doesn't have a lot of experiences under my belt. I compare my experience with DMT to THC. Initially I didn't understand or feel the affects of marijuana but after a few times I began to feel and understand it. The first time I smoked the base I didn't really have any visuals that I can remember. So, it is taking me awhile to understand the DMT experience. The dose stated above was pretty physically disorienting because the ayavisions were overlaying the room but the visions still weren't strong. It is hard to explain... as was the whole experience. It wasn't too strong though and I think I can definitely handle a higher dose. I weigh approximately 150lbs."
 
Yeah, SWIM does. He lives on one of those crazy ass abandoned oil rigs! He even has his own flag posted up and everything! Sorry for overusing SWIM! I won't do that anymore.
 
So swim is finally gonna give it a shot, can swim just mix 200mg caapi copy with 30 mg spice in orange juice and drink up? also how long should swim expect the experience to last? And last but not least, is it anything like smoking spice or should swim expect something much different?


WSaged said:
Uncle Knucles said:
Sorry to bump the thread, but can anyone advise a good moderate first timer's oral dose (both caapi copy and freebase DMT)?
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On FV's site they mention in the write up on the Caappi Copy that:
200 mg of Caapi Copy contains the same amount of Banisteriopsis caapi alkaloids as found in 40 grams of a typical batch of Banisteriopsis Caapi.
(also, 1 gram of Caapi Copy contains the same amount of Banisteriopsis caapi alkaloids as found in 200 grams of a typical batch of Banisteriopsis Caapi.)
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So 200mg would be around the typical amount found in the average cup of Ayahuasca, which usually calls for 40-to-50g of B.Caapi vine.
I'd start with 30-to-40mg of DMT-fumarate, once again around the average amount of DMT found in the average dose of Aya (50g of Chacruna).
Use 5-to-10mg less DMT if it is freebase. The DMT-Fumarate, or DMT-HCL are easier on the stomach, but freebase works too.

I just ordered 400mg of Caapi Copy to compare it to the Aya caps I made using FV's isolated harmalas.
I read a recipe for "True Pharmahuasca once, it recommended:
45mg THH
55mg harmine
5mg harmaline
Plus 45mg DMT fumarate
It also stated "1 capsule is 1 dose, equivalent to 1 mild dose of authentic ayahuasca. The effects are IDENTICAL but without the nausea."

I can verify this statement!
This produced the most wonderfully clean Ayahuasca experience I've had!!
And it truely was indistinguishable from the 50g Caapi/50g Chacruna brews I've made with vine from Maya, except for the total lack of nausea.
It had all of the spirit of a full on Ayahuasca dose & I was able to communicate just as well, if not better!

I'm curious to see if FV's Caapi Copy has pretty much the same alkaloid mix. I asked the guy & he wouldn't tell me the exact ratios but he said it was the same as a average dose of the vine, without the fibers of the vine.
We'll see, I've been very satisfied with everything else I've gotten from them!!

Cheers,

WS
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200 mg CC taken with OJ followed 2 minutes later with 35 mg spice freebase in oj......

At the 25 min mark now and feeling not very much...
 
lonewolf123 said:
200 mg CC taken with OJ followed 2 minutes later with 35 mg spice freebase in oj......

At the 25 min mark now and feeling not very much...
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SWIM always uses larger amounts of spice (100-125mg fumarate), does it on an empty stomach, and chases it with a snack (usually pita). He also takes half the harmaloids dissolved in a shot of warm water, followed by a mixture of the remaining harmaloids and the spice taken in the same manner 5-10min. later. SWIM usually comes up fairly quickly with this method, but if he deviates too much (by not chasing with a snack or whatnot) he notices a significant reduction in potency.
 
lonewolf123 said:
So swim is finally gonna give it a shot, can swim just mix 200mg caapi copy with 30 mg spice in orange juice and drink up? also how long should swim expect the experience to last? And last but not least, is it anything like smoking spice or should swim expect something much different?
Click to expand...

Sorry for the major bump, but does anyone have answers to these questions? It seems like FV hasn't stocked CC in a long time. Also the Caapi 20X Cielo from CS has been out aswell. Anyone know the reason? How about an alternative? Or should SWIM just go buy each ingredient and make their own mix?

So to refresh:
1)Vaping DMT freebase vs this CC synergy mix, what does it do differently? Slow down and ground the experience? Less alien?

2)How long does it last? Guessing 1-2 hours? As opposed to an Ayahuasca ceremony trip of 4-6 hours? When does it Peak?

3)Also, most seem to be doing DMT-fumarate with it. Would DMT-freebase be any different? Would it create nausea? SWIM has slightly oxidized spice. Does that make a difference? The whole reason SWIM is pursuing this is to avoid nausea and vomiting.

4)What of the technique of Consuming the CC mix first in some OJ, followed by vaping DMT? Anyone try this?

Thanks for any insight.
 
If someone took DMT freebase and stirred it into orange juice, it would become DMT citrate. This would not cause nausea.

For dealing with Caapi-associated nausea, ginger is excellent! Try taking several tablespoons of fresh ginger, grating and/or pounding it up (as with a mortar and pestle), and pouring boiling water over it. Stir in some honey and/or lemon juice if you want, then put it in the fridge. Once it cools down, drink all of the ginger tea WITH THE BITS OF GINGER AT THE BOTTOM. This should knock out nausea for several hours.
 
Sorry for reviving an ancient thread, but today I just made a variation of "Caapi Copy" as a tincture.

Harmala alkaloids are dissolved in 50% ethanol (warm/hot) with small amount of glacial acetic acid added, just enough to convert alkaloids to respective acetates.

Even at 100 mg/mL, everything is held in solution:

6dSZmMRl.jpg


The composition of alkaloids I chose is not based on B. Caapi, but rather on the common ayahuasca decoctions:

Callaway, James C. "Various alkaloid profiles in decoctions of Banisteriopsis caapi." Journal of Psychoactive Drugs 37.2 (2005): 151-155.
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Here harmine:THH ratio is almost 1:1 and there is virtually no harmaline. So I made it this way:

49% harmine (24.5 mg/mL)
49% THH (24.5 mg/mL)
2% harmaline (1 mg/mL)
 
What is the purpose of the alcohol? To increase solubility?
I have made aqueous solutions without alcohol at the same concentration.

THH acetate is the worst tasting thing I've ever ingested and it leaves a long-lasting aftertaste you can't get off.

For me, the solution to making harmalas palatable is to mix them with an actual caapi brew, heat it up and stir for 30 minutes or so. Apparently this causes complexation, whereby the alkaloids bond to larger molecules (like tannins?), which removes the taste. That's why caapi tea tastes so good.

When 2/3 of the harmalas come from isolated harmalas and 1/3 come from tea, it can still be made palatable. Perhaps even at higher ratios, but I haven't tried it. I like to have some real caapi tea in my preparations.
In final (alloyed) teas, the leaf tea probably also adds its own constituents that the isolated harmalas complex with.
 
Good job blue.magic. Also mixing the freebase alkaloids into around 1/4 cup of very hot water with around 100 to 200mg of pure citric acid powder added (vitamin c) will dissolve everything into the water to form the palatable friendly citrate salt form. Simply stir with the end of a spoon for a minute or so. Pure fine citric acid powder can be found on-line from dozens of vitamin shops.
 
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