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Caapi extraction tek
- Thread starter kyrolima
- Start date
Hey there,
50g is considered a standard dose for aya. Depending on individual sensitivity even 25g can do.
People also report taking caapi in small doses (5-20g) as a daily tea-supplement with positive responses. People also may take larger than 50g doses of caapi, like 100+ grams without any dmt (or dmt containing plant admixture) to experience caapi's own psychedelic qualities.
50g is considered a standard dose for aya. Depending on individual sensitivity even 25g can do.
People also report taking caapi in small doses (5-20g) as a daily tea-supplement with positive responses. People also may take larger than 50g doses of caapi, like 100+ grams without any dmt (or dmt containing plant admixture) to experience caapi's own psychedelic qualities.
I cant see why a simple manske + base just as with rue wouldnt work...
Maybe even it works better, with easy filtering
SWIM was also thinking of trying, he has some caapi laying around
Maybe even it works better, with easy filtering
SWIM was also thinking of trying, he has some caapi laying around
tea tastes very strong, but its nice to take it sometime.. But extraction might be worth also
check this thread out:
Just use caapi instead of rue... Its basically making a manske salt precipitation and then later redissolving and freebase-precipitating with sodium carbonate
check this thread out:
Just use caapi instead of rue... Its basically making a manske salt precipitation and then later redissolving and freebase-precipitating with sodium carbonate
kemist
John
I definitelly remember somebody on this forum claiming that THH wouldn`t pecip. trough Manske, only harmine and harmaline could.
In this case one can easily recover harmine and harmaline of decent purity from rue. It
work out considerably cheaper then wasting precious wine.
Nobody here knows chemical and physical properties and behaviour of THH so actuall tek can`t be easily developed.
In this case one can easily recover harmine and harmaline of decent purity from rue. It
work out considerably cheaper then wasting precious wine.
Nobody here knows chemical and physical properties and behaviour of THH so actuall tek can`t be easily developed.
kemist said:
can anybody confirm this? Is it true THH wouldnt precipitate in a manske, and also if possible can someone explain the chemistry of why?
I also think extracting from rue is better overall for general purpouses as it is much more common and cheaper, but I have some extra caapi I wouldnt mind using once, as I would love to have something like a 'caapi copy' with THH also to experiment with...
Well, even if THH does not precipitate via Manske (I'd still like to see a reference for that) it should precipitate as a freebase out of basic solutions.endlessness said:
In fact, if one wants to extract caapi there is no need to do a Manske. Manske is essential for p.harmala since the decoction is thick and syrupy. I'd just boil the caapi, reduce to 500-1000ml and the basify.
Mr_DMT said:
Get Caapi, it is far superior to rue, most people seem to agree with this.
Also, if you make a tea and don't reduce it, it actually tastes pretty good. It's when you reduce the tea from 200grams into 100mL that the texture resembles mud and the taste is the most bitter thing you've ever come in contact with.
You can achive full MAO inhibition with unreduced Caapi, you just need more of it. Some drink their Aya like this...reduced Admixture plants (Chaliponga or Chacruna + whatever else is being put in) and unreduced Caapi tea.
Im in the process of breaking up some caapi now and tonight gonna start a caapi extraction... to bad no camera at the moment, would be nice to make a photo report.. The caapi is a couple of years old..
check back for results tomorrow or smt
what yield should I expect? 0.3-0.6% ?
check back for results tomorrow or smt
what yield should I expect? 0.3-0.6% ?
then you would have some very impure goo
Im at the moment extracting here.. I made the tea out of 350g of caapi harvested over two years ago, from the thinnest ones I had, to not use the best in the first try...
Filtered first with cotton plug and then coffee filter, added the base and a lot of stuff precipitated, supposedly alkaloids but a lot of gunk also, which took ages to filter in coffee filter.. now I redissolved in acidic water and am filtering this and then will add the base again, lets see how much cleaner its gonna get
Im at the moment extracting here.. I made the tea out of 350g of caapi harvested over two years ago, from the thinnest ones I had, to not use the best in the first try...
Filtered first with cotton plug and then coffee filter, added the base and a lot of stuff precipitated, supposedly alkaloids but a lot of gunk also, which took ages to filter in coffee filter.. now I redissolved in acidic water and am filtering this and then will add the base again, lets see how much cleaner its gonna get
ok so I finished the caapi xtraction
from 350g caapi it came out 500mg clean light tan alkaloids after about 6 A/Bs ..
May seem like a low yield but im happy, since it was some left-over caapi from many years ago, I took only the thinnest least mature vines from the batch, plus there were a couple of spills during the process, and it is quite clean after so many A/Bs
from 350g caapi it came out 500mg clean light tan alkaloids after about 6 A/Bs ..
May seem like a low yield but im happy, since it was some left-over caapi from many years ago, I took only the thinnest least mature vines from the batch, plus there were a couple of spills during the process, and it is quite clean after so many A/Bs
biopsylo
Rising Star
from 350g caapi it came out 500mg clean light tan alkaloids after about 6 A/Bs ..
So 6 A/Bs. did you do this whole tek without salting out?
was there any benefit to this, and Is this about what you would expect to get? swim recently did an extraction on caapi, salting twice, and will never again use ammonia(id did not work for swim). he got around 700mg from 460g old vine. thought there was a mention elsewhere that consecutive basing of harmalas will decrease yields. could be remembering this wrong...
was just wondering if you were satisfied with the tek as performed//
So 6 A/Bs. did you do this whole tek without salting out?
was there any benefit to this, and Is this about what you would expect to get? swim recently did an extraction on caapi, salting twice, and will never again use ammonia(id did not work for swim). he got around 700mg from 460g old vine. thought there was a mention elsewhere that consecutive basing of harmalas will decrease yields. could be remembering this wrong...
was just wondering if you were satisfied with the tek as performed//
yes I didnt salt out in the caapi because I read somewhere that THH doesnt crash out as a salt, so one would lose it when salting out. I dont know if this information is true, but just in case I decided not to salt it...
As for losing alkaloids when basing, it is harmaline which is slightly water soluble even at high pH, so every basing step would lose a small part of the yield.. But, harmaline is a significant component in Rue, NOT in caapi, where it is nearly all Harmine and THH... So I guess rather better A/Bing than salting the caapi out (in the case that THH does not salt out, this still has to be confirmed, because otherwise salting would be fine)
Im happy with the tek, yes.. I think if I had powdered the initial material (it was in macerated pieces, not too small), made 4x acid cooks instead of 3, had used more mature and fresher bark, and had not spilled some liquid when I did at some point, then the yield would have been significantly larger.
The only issue I have is in the final retrieving of the alkaloids.. I filtered in coffee filter, but whether one scrapes it while still wet, or waits for it to dry, there's always a significant loss to the filter itself (and if one scrapes too much filter fibers come off).. The way I 'work' around this is to scrape most of it carefully, and then put the filter with the trapped harmalas in a little bowl with acidified water, to redissolve it (and then save this for next extraction round or whatever).. But would be nice to have a clean non-wasteful way of yielding the alkaloids.
As for losing alkaloids when basing, it is harmaline which is slightly water soluble even at high pH, so every basing step would lose a small part of the yield.. But, harmaline is a significant component in Rue, NOT in caapi, where it is nearly all Harmine and THH... So I guess rather better A/Bing than salting the caapi out (in the case that THH does not salt out, this still has to be confirmed, because otherwise salting would be fine)
Im happy with the tek, yes.. I think if I had powdered the initial material (it was in macerated pieces, not too small), made 4x acid cooks instead of 3, had used more mature and fresher bark, and had not spilled some liquid when I did at some point, then the yield would have been significantly larger.
The only issue I have is in the final retrieving of the alkaloids.. I filtered in coffee filter, but whether one scrapes it while still wet, or waits for it to dry, there's always a significant loss to the filter itself (and if one scrapes too much filter fibers come off).. The way I 'work' around this is to scrape most of it carefully, and then put the filter with the trapped harmalas in a little bowl with acidified water, to redissolve it (and then save this for next extraction round or whatever).. But would be nice to have a clean non-wasteful way of yielding the alkaloids.
Manske extaction works well on rue because it leaves behind undesirable alkaloids. With Caapi there ARE NO UNDESIRABLE ALKALOIDS!!! Therefore, as endlessness has stated, an A/B should work just fine.
500mgs sounds about right for immature Caapi vine. The stuff I once had (pencil thin or less) required about 250grams for full Caapi effects (equivallent to about 50g of good white Caapi).
I'm surprised it took 6 A/B's to clean it up though. Did you do any defats in the acidic stage?
this is good news, but how to seperate them....Maybe a Manske could seperate THH from the harmine???
the harmine would precipitiate out, then the remaining liquid could be basified precipitating only THH!!!
This might be your answer right there. An A/B to get all the alks out, a Manske to get out the harmine, and basification of the remaining liquid to get out the remaining THH......
endlessness, would you mind using 100mgs of your extract to see if this would work?
500mgs sounds about right for immature Caapi vine. The stuff I once had (pencil thin or less) required about 250grams for full Caapi effects (equivallent to about 50g of good white Caapi).
I'm surprised it took 6 A/B's to clean it up though. Did you do any defats in the acidic stage?
this is good news, but how to seperate them....Maybe a Manske could seperate THH from the harmine???
the harmine would precipitiate out, then the remaining liquid could be basified precipitating only THH!!!
This might be your answer right there. An A/B to get all the alks out, a Manske to get out the harmine, and basification of the remaining liquid to get out the remaining THH......
endlessness, would you mind using 100mgs of your extract to see if this would work?
I have to bring this question back on the forefront.Are we totaly sure that a "manske" will not precipitate THH? I see it repeated all over ,but i see no evidence or experiment on it.It seems well accepted though.
A simple experiment mentioned before in another thread would be for a member with access to THH (i think some can procure it commercialy from websites) to make a solution of it and try a "Manske" on it,putting it on the fridge and waiting at least overnight to see what gives. If it doesnt work, nothing is lost : basify and reclaim!