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Camalonga strychnos and related seeds as entheogens?

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69ron

69ron

Rising Star
I’ve recently seen Camalonga strychnos being offered on several sites. This is apparently used by shamans. It’s related to Strychnos nux-vomica. Like Strychnos nux-vomica, Camalonga strychnos contains strychnine.

Apparently 2 seeds are used. The seeds are broken up and dissolved in alcohol. Then the seeds are strained out and the alcohol is drunk.

I read a report that when used sublingually, it produces LSD like effects. Is this true? From what I gather, the main alkaloid is most likely strychnine. I never heard that strychnine was psychedelic. I know it’s a stimulant, but a psychedelic? I find that hard to believe.

Now sometimes, Ignatius bean (Strychnos ignatii) is used as a substitute for Camalonga strychnos. Ignatius bean is well known to contain strychnine as its main active alkaloid, so this is really a mystery. Why would these people be using strychnine for psychedelic effects?

The seeds are very pricey, about $7-$10 each!

Does anyone know anything more about this seed?
 
christian rastch said that it was active in small amount sublingually... this has not been reported by any one else really. but its been used as another master teacher plant in the amazon for a long time. camaloongeros are sort of like the antiayahuasceros and compete with them and combat them... so the stories go. there are male camaloonga seeds and female camalonga seeds and they are supposed to be mixed together so ive been told... in one bottle with camphor. when this is sprayed on some one it acts as a sort of remover of obstacles and puts out what ever crisis seems to be going on in a person during ceremonies. SWIM works with it in this way. swim has never gotten any effects from it as a pscyhoactive though. rastch said that it is very common to get fake ones. and that the real ones that are sold are exspensive down there and holes are drilled through them so that no one can grow them in competition. thus keeping them fairly rare...
it seems to be one of those things... like with piri piri. piri piri is said to be like lsd in effects and entheogenic but swim has never heard of any one having any effects from it.
it might be possible that some one might get effects from drinking a shot of it soaked in a fifth...
if it is just strychnine... though, eh no...
like a lot of things in the curanderismo tradition its the spirit that does the work not the chemicals... and swim has fel tit to be very effective in ceremonies in combating ill intentions... and mal...
 
So these rumors about it having LSD like effects when taken sublingually are just sales gimmicks put out by a few sellers to get people interested in buying them?
 
know ive never actually tried a slice to find out. but honestly it came from christian rastch... who can some times exaggerate a little... i think at least.
the seeds are really rare so sellers having them the ones that are really psychoactive, if they exist and are not just a medicine thats like piri piri and having just spiritual effects... man i dont know... it sounds like bu ing one and trying it couldnt hurt. a sliver under the tongue made rastch away that it blew him away. so its not likely to hurt anything to try it...IMHO though... there may be something to it... but we are just not privy to its secrets. its dubious though
 
I don't know about trying something that contains strychnine that isn't well known. You could kill yourself if you took a little bit too much.

I'm curious about this seed and want to know more. Maybe there's more in it than just strychnine? Or maybe strychnine has mild psychedelic effects if specifically used sublingually?

I know that small doses of strychnine act as a stimulant, and make your senses more acute. Sounds have more detail, colors are brighter, everything looks more intense, etc., so it almost sounds like something on the verge of being psychedelic. But from what I've read, even people suffering seizures from strychnine overdose don't have psychedelic effects. I keep reading that the mind remains clear even up until death from overdose of strychnine. The effects it has on the senses, while fantastic in low doses in combination with other psychedelics, are not truly psychedelic, it just increases your senses, it doesn't cause sense distortions, or at least that's what I've read.

Now I did read once on another forum that this one guy found strychnine to be somewhat mind altering at higher doses than is usually used. Considering the high toxicity of strychnine, it doesn't seem wise to use it for any such effects. I can see using small doses to enhance other psychedelics, but pushing the limit and taking a high doses of strychnine for some sort of intoxication sounds really dangerous to me.

Are there any known deaths caused by Camalonga strychnos?
 
not that i have heard of. at the time rastche was promoting lots of newly discovered entheogens, and really exagerating them. pscyhoactive too is different then pscyhedelic and it is possible that his reaction to it was a stryc reaction who knows.
how long does it take for stryc to come on sublingually?
another thing is it may not have stryc in it at all. but something entirely new and different which is what he thought.
little is k nown about this one...
 
Dorge said:
christian rastch said that it was active in small amount sublingually... this has not been reported by any one else really. but its been used as another master teacher plant in the amazon for a long time. camaloongeros are sort of like the antiayahuasceros and compete with them and combat them... so the stories go. there are male camaloonga seeds and female camalonga seeds and they are supposed to be mixed together so ive been told... in one bottle with camphor. when this is sprayed on some one it acts as a sort of remover of obstacles and puts out what ever crisis seems to be going on in a person during ceremonies. SWIM works with it in this way. swim has never gotten any effects from it as a pscyhoactive though. rastch said that it is very common to get fake ones. and that the real ones that are sold are exspensive down there and holes are drilled through them so that no one can grow them in competition. thus keeping them fairly rare...
it seems to be one of those things... like with piri piri. piri piri is said to be like lsd in effects and entheogenic but swim has never heard of any one having any effects from it.
it might be possible that some one might get effects from drinking a shot of it soaked in a fifth...
if it is just strychnine... though, eh no...
like a lot of things in the curanderismo tradition its the spirit that does the work not the chemicals... and swim has fel tit to be very effective in ceremonies in combating ill intentions... and mal...
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Hmm,this is a bit of topic, but... i still have a piece of piripiri root lying somewhere.(got a free sample of it from a company that sells ayahuasca herbs) I just don't know what to do with it.
That shamans used it is not realy a recomendation to me, because what they used to get visions is not nessecarilly pleasant to take or good for your health (like tobacco).
Do you know anything about it, dorge?
 
That's funny, I came across this thread via google while researching camalonga myself!

This guy says he drinks it:
He says it's a seed. You can see him cooking it in a big pot, which makes one think that dosage is not a delicate issue.

I read somewhere on Corroboree or Edot (I think) that camalongueros don't take ayawaska because th strychnine lingers in their bodies for 5 weeks. But is this wrong, because the guy singing looks Shipibo to me so I'm guessing he drinks ayawaska sometimes too? And these guys below say they drink camalonga just before an ayawaska ceremony:

http://oleggutsol.com/2009/01/ayahuasca/ said:
There are many restrictions while drinking ayahuasca, one of them is abstinence from alcohol, so we drank camalonga (which is a brazilian nut mixed with local sugar cane moonshine) on the first night. The drink tastes atrocious, it resembles nutmeg, shoe polish, sawdust and the worst alcohol all mixed together. The shamans say camalonga works in your dreams – one could have wild and very vivid dreams, even shared dreams between several people.
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What doesn't make sense there is that they say they can't drink alcohol so instead they drink camalonga made with moonshine? Moonshine is alcoholic!
 
Ok, I asked a friend of mine, who asked a guy he knows in Peru.

He says that camalonga seeds are used for protection. People do not eat them, because they are poisonous.

He says there are some shamans who use camalonga to heal, but they NEVER eat the seeds by themselves. These shamen only use camalonga, nothing else. They macerate the seeds in an alcoholic drink made from sugar cane and drink the juice in order to heal people.

The seeds do contain strychnine. He thinks that the fact that they macerate (=soak) whole seeds but do not crush or grind them is important for ensuring that the concoction is edible. Anyway, he does not recommend trying it.

Nevertheless, this makes me think that strychnine is not present in the drink in any significant amount. Overdose would surely be common otherwise. I would guess that there is either another entheogenic chemical in the seeds which enters the drink, or the drink is not chemically active. Perhaps the fact that the seeds are poisonous adds mystique to the shaman's work?
 
PLEASE DO NOT TRY TAKING CAMALONGA OR STRYCHNOS NUV VOMICA OR AN EXTRACT OF EITHER UNLESS YOU KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING. BOTH CONTAIN STRYCHNINE AND BOTH CAN BE FATAL IF USED INCORRECTLY. JUST 1 STRYCHNOS NUV VOMICA SEED CAN KILL A PERSON.

Well SWIM has an extract of strychnos nux vomica that he made a just a while ago. He’s been playing about with it. It’s extremely dilute. 1 ml only contains about 243 micrograms of strychnine. He’s used up to 1.5 ml of it orally, and as much as 1 ml sublingually. Nux vomica also contains brucine in near equal amounts. Brucine causes a numbing effect in the mouth if used sublingually.

These Camalonga seeds are said to produce a numbing effect in the mouth if taken sublingually, followed by an LSD-like effect. At least that’s 1 person’s report. SWIM has not tried Camalonga seeds, but they are chemically very similar to strychnos nux vomica and I believe they contain both strychnine and brucine. As stated above, brucine makes your mouth a little numb if taken sublingually.

So, as a test SWIM tried 1 ml of his nux vomica extract sublingually. That amount contains about 243 micrograms of strychnine and about 307 micrograms of brucine. It’s extremely bitter, and your mouth gets a little numb just as is reported by one Camalonga user.

Now it gets a little more interesting. After about 20 minutes, some LSD-like effects were actually felt, just as described with Camalonga seeds. SWIM did not know how similar in effects strychnine can be to the effects of LSD until he tried taking it sublingually. It’s much more potent sublingually I guess. It’s not truly psychedelic, but does have some qualities that are very similar to LSD. The effect it has on sound, vision and sense of touch is very similar to LSD in some ways. Things look sharper, colors brighter, sounds are more detailed, you see things with more vividness. It feels trippy, Your sense of awareness is increased, and you feel stimulated in a way very similar to LSD. It’s quite fascinating.

In the past SWIM has used pure strychnine orally, but never really sublingually. I think the most he used orally was 500 microgams. The 1 ml dose of his extract contains only 243 micrograms but because it was taken sublingually it was much stronger than 500 micrograms taken orally. Actually SWIM was a little shocked by how strong it was and got some kavalactones ready to ingest as a strychnine antidote just in case he started getting a few muscle twitches (but that never developed).

The bottom line is that the effects SWIM got from nux vomica by taking it sublingually very closely matched the effects he read about camalonga having when taken sublingually.

Camalonga is likely very dangerous to take orally or sublingually, more so than nux vomica. The reason I say that is because nux vomica has been studied for hundreds of years, and the amount of strychnine present in it is very well known, so “safe” dosages can be accurately calculated based on the maximum strychinine content per mg of dried nux vomica seeds. Camalonga’s strychnine content is not well known. You should stay away from it. Strychnine can be fatal in doses of 30 mg and up, and possibly even less for some individuals.

If you do play around with camalonga, be extremely careful and make sure you have some kavalactones present as a strychnine antidote, as well as some 1000 mg tablets of vitamin C.

Both vitamin C and kavalactones help prevent mild strychnine poisoning. If you get even the slightest twitch from it, you’d better swallow 1000 mg of vitamin C and a few kavalactone capsules. Tell everyone around you what you did, so they know. If you are alone, then immediately make a note of the fact that you took these and strychnine and securely tape it to your arm with very strong duct tape. And if things get any worse immediately call for emergency help. If they arrive and you’re already having convulsions and can’t easily speak hopefully they’ll see the note taped to your arm. This will help them save your life. An extreme overdose of strychnine can kill a person in as little as 15 minutes, but with the proper medications, it’s possible to survive.
 
I am in Iquitos right now. Went on a jungle trip. The two guides I was with had both tried camalonga quite a few times.

In about an hour I am heading over to a camalonguero, one that works with camalonga, to try to get as much information about it as possible.

I will try take some pictures of the seeds and learn about how she prepares it. Also, if it is dangerous in some way.

I will report back.
 
Unfortunately the guide that were going to take me to the camalonguero didnt show up. So today I went down to Belen and checked out the camalonga seeds they have there. It turns out that they use different kind of camalonga seeds. One is from Brazil, it is a bit stronger than the peruvian kind. There is also another type from Ecuador.

Price was less than a dollar for a pair of the seeds. I also talked to a guy at the market that was a camalonguero. He told me there was 3 ways to prepare camalonga. The main one that most use down here is a mixture of aguardiente+some kind of onion+camphor.

There was also one preparation with tobacco.

WARNING: As I cannot vouch for the correctness of the information stated below, it would be good to start with a dose waaaay lower than the one mentioned here. Ill try it at some point myself and see how it works out.
The third one that I was most interested in was with water. To prepare two doses, you take 1 male and one female seed. Take off the outer shell and throw it away. Cut the seeds in two and put it in ~300 ml of water and cook it for 30 minutes or so until it has been reduced to about 75 ml. Then drink half. You can reduce it more for a stronger dose.

He also took VERY little piece of the seed and told me to suck on it. I did, but not sure if I noticed anything. Perhaps some slight ringing in the ears. But we are talking about less than a mg or so. He just stuck the knife into the seed, about 3mm in and twisted the knife around.

From what I hear it is good for dreams.

Anyways, I should get a translator with me, because I didnt understand much of what he said.

Perhaps I could send some seeds, if someone would be serious about growing it and distributing it to make it cheaper. Depending on how expensive it is to send from peru.
 
I got hold of a translator and we headed down to Belen. I talked to this woman about Camalonga and she gave me a recipie for water extraction. She said that alcoholic extraction is more potent, but I am not that interested in that.

So, the recipie is this:
1. You take 10 seeds, 5 male and 5 female (5 hombres y 5 embras).
2. You smash them up.
3. Add it to 3 litres of water and boil it for an hour or so.
4. Remove the smashed up material.
5. To get 1 dose, you drink about 25 ml of this liquid.
This should be about 120 doses.

She also said that you can extract the same material 3 times. So, it doesnt pull out everything.

To make a stronger extract, you can reduce the 3 litres down to 1 liter and drink 25 ml.

Everyone I have talked to have said that it produces visuals at higher doses.
When I asked if it was dangerous, they didnt seem to think it was.

I will have to try it out when I get home. But be careful if you want to try this out! I am not sure how the potency of these seeds compare to nux vomica or if it even is the same actives.
 
[quote='Coatl]Daggar can I post that stuff you emailed me?
[/quote]
Sure.

Today I went to Belen again. I talked to this woman there, and I filmed the making of camalonga. Basically it is a mixture of camphor, white onion, strong sugar cane alcohol and camalonga seeds.

One 600 ml bottle of 10 whole seeds was about 30 doses or so. But you can keep refilling it with strong vodka when you are done with it, like 10 times. Giving you about 300 doses total.

I dont think that thevetia peruviana is the one used here in peru. I have seen the seeds from it on the net, the image on the singingtotheplants site is the peruvian kind, but it is not thevetia peruviana as far as I can tell.

I think I will check with IIAP(Instituto de investigaciones de la Amazonía peruana) here in Iquitos. Supposedly they should know what the scientific name of camalonga is.
 
Note that strychnine does product noticeable visual effects. It increases all of your senses. Colors look brighter. You can see things with more detail. You can hear things better, smell more accurately. It heightens your awareness. These are all effect attributed to a low dose of LSD. But it never causes "visions", only an increase in visual acuity.

There's some ambiguity about the true species camalonga refers to. From what I've read recently, these seeds can be either seeds from the strychnos family which contains strychnine or a totally different unrelated seed (I forget the name) which contains no strychnine at all.

In some locations the shamans will substitute ingatia (Strychnos ignatii) for camalonga and consider it to have identical effects. The main active alkaloid in ingatia is well known to be strychnine.

In the past several weeks SWIM has used strychnine (extracted from Nux vomica) regularly in microgram doses (up to 500 micrograms or so), sometimes several days in a row multiple times a day.

Strychnine feels a lot like LSD.

You'll feel the following effects from microgram doses of strychnine: increased awareness, euphoria, stimulation, sense of well being, increased color perception, increased special awareness, increased sense of smell, increased sense of hearing, very pleasurable increases in sense of touch (great for sex), increased memory capacity and increases in mental concentration (it's a proven nootropic).

Strychnine is extremely dangerous and if these seeds are in fact seeds that contain strychnine, you should find out exactly how much they contain. An overdose of strychnine is extremely unpleasant and then you die. It's said to be the most unpleasant way to die. While it's safe in microgram doses, it can easily kill a person if too much is taken.

I would use extreme caution when using camalonga seeds especially since the botanical identificaion of it is unclear.

Keep in mind that other strychnine containing seeds can be used safely. Strychnos nux vomica is used in India, China, and is present in homeopathic medicines world wide. It's only safe in very small amounts. If these seeds are the ones that contain strychnine, which the shamans will substitute ingatia seeds for, then you need to be extremely careful about using them.

My advice is to stay away from these seeds unless you know exactly what you're doing.

Strychnine can be safe, but only in very small doses. The fact that the recipes I've seen that incorporate camalonga seeds seem to be highly diluted indicates they are toxic. And the fact that some shamans use ignatia as a more desired seed in place of camalonga, also indicates that at least one type of seeds called camalonga do in fact contain strychinine, otherwise shamans would not consider ignatia a direct replacement for camalonga.
 
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