Can xylene pulls can be backsalted?

[Kalitechnik]

Hey folks please help me on this one as i am wondering, can my xylene pulls be backsalted?
Do i understand correctly that i can use water with citric acid to backsalt my xylene, and later add the base solution and do the pet ether pulls to freeze precip my xtals?

And how to do it corectly? If i will have around 350 ml of xylene, how much acidic water i should use, and how many times i should do it?

 

[bodymechanics]

show some pics of the oily part. there must be more deems there. i would expect around 2% yield with the xylene.

Yeah it’s totally forming crystals in the oil.
This was an oily stuff that I separated during back salting

 

[bodymechanics]

Very nice pics! Crystalline + no smell very much suggests that it's the pure substance, and goes to illustrate how pure DMT can indeed be yellow.

You might want to use some kind of tray or liner on your scale, to help avoid gumming it up - a square of foil will do.

I’ve never hear that the smell not being there would be a sign of purity. Makes sense tho.
Almost every batch I’ve made has been so floral except this

 

[Loveall]

COOL !
I dont understand what you mean by this:

1st 100ml new xylene semi saturated but weak ish
2nd 100ml new xylene saturated but still slight
3rd 75ml new xylene extra saturated
4th 75ml used xylene super saturated
5th 50ml used xylene saturated

what is this saturated/super saturated things?

And also i dont understand why do you keep basing for a long time, usually as i understand we want to minimize the time ot that stage.
(as @Loveall observed the more time in teh lye the more chance to get gooey, polimerized dmt?)

And also i noticed you skipped adding salt at all to the mix?

It can happen that alkaline conditions make gooey dmt, but not always. Max ION tek concentrations/pH are ok for quite a while. However, heavy dmt concentrations and high pH can start agregaring the dmt. In extreme cases a layer of dmt goo will form above the water.

 

[Loveall]

It can happen that alkaline conditions make gooey dmt, but not always. Max ION tek concentrations/pH are ok for quite a while. However, heavy dmt concentrations and high pH can start agregaring the dmt. In extreme cases a layer of dmt goo will form above the water.

Oh, and NaCl concentration also matters. Na+ can disrupt DMT aggregation in water. I think this is an important part of max ion.

 

[bodymechanics]

In extreme cases a layer of dmt goo will form above the water.

So during backsalting this orange oily stuff separated. I collected it into this little beaker and evaped in open air.
Turned out lots of crystal.
Still a a little puddle of goo.
Seems some solvent is still evaporating as well.
Definitely didn’t expect this oil to turn out so many crystals.

 

[bodymechanics]

So after weighing this and combining with previous weight that’s 3.89g total.
Not bad really.
This xylene>backsalt might be the way forward

 

[Transform]

So after weighing this and combining with previous weight that’s 3.89g total.
Not bad really.
This xylene>backsalt might be the way forward

Glad this old topic is being rediscovered. It just reminds me of how, in a pre-Nexus incarnation over at the Shroomery, I suggested using xylene for DMT pulls and was greeted with the response "xylene is junk and stinks like mad". Hence, I'm particularly grateful that people like you are trying this stuff out and confirming its usefulness. I feel positively vindicated. Keep it up!

 

[Kalitechnik]

Glad this old topic is being rediscovered. It just reminds me of how, in a pre-Nexus incarnation over at the Shroomery, I suggested using xylene for DMT pulls and was greeted with the response "xylene is junk and stinks like mad". Hence, I'm particularly grateful that people like you are trying this stuff out and confirming its usefulness. I feel positively vindicated. Keep it up!

Oh yes. Right now at least for me i find that with xylene i can get way more of the good stuff, the with other solvents. So i am in love with xylene.
And now after finding that we can skip the evaporation and do the backsalting it became even more interesting.

So i will try to master the process.

I am also very happy to see master @Loveall around here. I was (still am) very much inspired by your aproach to turn goe/waxy stuff into the white xtals.
Hope to get some hints about that from you, how to utilize your findings and use them in the xylene/backsalting process.

I am wondering also, as we can see tha we get here some orangy/yellowish crystals. As my understanding goes crystals are rather pure compounds, so can we say that not only white is desireable? as long as we get crystals, and the goey waxy deems, are they clean and ok?

 

[1Starway7]

So during backsalting this orange oily stuff separated. I collected it into this little beaker and evaped in open air.
Turned out lots of crystal.
Still a a little puddle of goo.
Seems some solvent is still evaporating as well.
Definitely didn’t expect this oil to turn out so many crystals.

not SHURE ....BUT after magnifacation...THEY DONT LOOK LIKE NORMAL DMT CRYSTALS?

Most dmt crystals im used to seeing... are shaped like blooming flowers..or snow flakes].....but i guess crystals can change shape some ,,,but these appear like solid chunks??

I never use exyl en ,,,as a solvent ....only napatha works best for me ...

 

[bodymechanics]

I usually get larger chunks when the solvent gets heated quite a bit and cooled slowly.

 

[doubledog]

I am wondering also, as we can see tha we get here some orangy/yellowish crystals. As my understanding goes crystals are rather pure compounds, so can we say that not only white is desireable? as long as we get crystals, and the goey waxy deems, are they clean and ok?

Yes, orange waxy material is still quite pure dmt freebase ( of course only in case that no contaminants were left there from the extraction and purification process)
Simplified explanation is that there are two main forms of freebase: white crystals and orange waxy stuff - both are soluble in xylene, but only white fraction is soluble in naphtha.

 

[Kalitechnik]

Yes, orange waxy material is still quite pure dmt freebase ( of course only in case that no contaminants were left there from the extraction and purification process)
Simplified explanation is that there are two main forms of freebase: white crystals and orange waxy stuff - both are soluble in xylene, but only white fraction is soluble in naphtha.

The question comes.
Can we turn orange waxy dmt from this method into white xtals then?
i was reading some post of @Loveall when he showed that after some acidic treatment almost all of the waxy yellowish stuff turned to white product.
@Loveall did you made some more of those experiments and did you found out the method?

 

[acacian]

Looking great!

not SHURE ....BUT after magnifacation...THEY DONT LOOK LIKE NORMAL DMT CRYSTALS?

Most dmt crystals im used to seeing... are shaped like blooming flowers..or snow flakes].....but i guess crystals can change shape some ,,,but these appear like solid chunks??

I never use exyl en ,,,as a solvent ....only napatha works best for me ...

@1Starway7 DMT crystallizes differently with xylene. That second pic is what you can expect from xylene/toluene. Doesn’t mean impurities .. just a different way of crystallizing. Starts as a clear oil, and the crystals over the period of an hour start as little circular specs and expand outwards until they can crystallize no more. If the extract was wrought with impurities, you’d expect it to have trouble crystallizing. I really like watching the circular crystals form.. when you see those first few specs appearing in your oil you know your in for a piece of art to come.

@Transform and @Loveall .. do you guys know what the reason is behind this style of crystallization? My hunch is it is to do with DMT’s solubility in the solvent essentially up until it’s almost completely evaporated.. so it seems like it’s deposited differently to other more volatile/lower holding solvents.

I personally think xylene is great and think it is a useful “keep it all in one place” solvent for initial pull before backsalting. You don’t have to worry about bits of spice crashing out and depositing on different jars etc when you handle it in cooler environments.

The groovy thing with backsalting is you get to precipitate your DMT from a clear solution.. it’s still one of/if not the the most satisfying parts of extraction aside from the crystals themselves. When you know your salts are in the water and then POOF they explode out of the solution.. that gets me every time.

Toluene is also great @bodymechanics .. basically works identically to xylene but doesn’t have as unpleasant an odor. It smells like a hobby shop. While it has a strong odor of its own, I don’t think it stinks. It is however slightly more toxic I believe.. so that’s something to bear in mind.. use in well ventilated area and don’t get it on your skin.. it’s a known carcinogen.

Curious on the solubility of salts in DCM. I have read that because DCM has some slightly polar characteristics, that it isn’t great for backsalting. I have backsalted from it a couple times and evapped the solvent to see if any DMT remained and certainly going on smell/burn test it seems to be mostly inactive waxes left over that smell like puppy. If the slight solubility of salts wasn’t an issue (and I suspect it is minimal) it would be great for initial pulling before back salting as it holds more alkaloids than toluene or xylene per ml.

I also find it fascinating that DCM is more dense than water yet is an incredibly fast evapping solvent.. it seems to evap even faster than naptha!

 

[Transform]

@Transform and @Loveall .. do you guys know what the reason is behind this style of crystallization? My hunch is it is to do with DMT’s solubility in the solvent essentially up until it’s almost completely evaporated.. so it seems like it’s deposited differently to other more volatile/lower holding solvents.

That sounds about right to me - DMT is known to crystallise in different polymorphs depending on the solvent used.

Toluene is also great @bodymechanics .. basically works identically to xylene but doesn’t have as unpleasant an odor. It smells like a hobby shop. While it has a strong odor of its own, I don’t think it stinks. It is however slightly more toxic I believe.. so that’s something to bear in mind.. use in well ventilated area and don’t get it on your skin.. it’s a known carcinogen.

While the odour is worse, xylene's lower toxicity, as well as its diminished flammability hazard compare very favourably with toluene.

Curious on the solubility of salts in DCM. I have read that because DCM has some slightly polar characteristics, that it isn’t great for backsalting. I have backsalted from it a couple times and evapped the solvent to see if any DMT remained and certainly going on smell/burn test it seems to be mostly inactive waxes left over that smell like puppy. If the slight solubility of salts wasn’t an issue (and I suspect it is minimal) it would be great for initial pulling before back salting as it holds more alkaloids than toluene or xylene per ml.

I suspect that if, for some peculiar reason, one were to attempt preparation of DMT butyrate [vomit-flavoured vapes - what's not to like?!] in DCM that the salt would show some noticeable solubility. From what I understand of it, DCM will dissolve ionic compounds once they start to contain significantly lipophilic substituents. This is what I'm extrapolating from Shulgin's observation that DOX compounds with longer 4-alkyl substituents were staying in DCM even when in salt form.

 

[1Starway7]

That sounds about right to me - DMT is known to crystallise in different polymorphs depending on the solvent used.

While the odour is worse, xylene's lower toxicity, as well as its diminished flammability hazard compare very favourably with toluene.

I suspect that if, for some peculiar reason, one were to attempt preparation of DMT butyrate [vomit-flavoured vapes - what's not to like?!] in DCM that the salt would show some noticeable solubility. From what I understand of it, DCM will dissolve ionic compounds once they start to contain significantly lipophilic substituents. This is what I'm extrapolating from Shulgin's observation that DOX compounds with longer 4-alkyl substituents were staying in DCM even when in salt form.

Even with the list of xylene's positives...I still say xlyene stinks to high heaven!... ..i would never use it in an extraction ... in a house.... or apartment...maybe way out in the country/// far from neighbors noses...you DONT need unwanted attention!

Ive tryed using the stuff doing a mescaline extraction in the southern usa...The smell was so strong... the smell...carries quite far in the air!!!

I was concerned about being found out...that i walked far into the desert... where i was alone ... to continue the extraction and even alone... i was getting a sore neck... from looking over my shoulder constantly!

when doing an extraction...privacy is important!....Your freedom is number one! It must be protected!

Even with all my work back then ...the extraction failed...there was too much cactus goo to deal with...

napatha solvent]... for dmt is better because it evaporates faster than exylene.... the smell doesnt carry half as far as exylene odor does..

When using exylene.... You must be far!... from strangers!...Then.....[with a resperator]..... Exylene is safer to use..

 

[bodymechanics]

Even with the list of xylene's positives...I still say xlyene stinks to high heaven!... ..i would never use it in an extraction ... in a house.... or apartment...maybe way out in the country/// far from neighbors noses...you DONT need unwanted attention!

Ive tryed using the stuff doing a mescaline extraction in the southern usa...The smell was so strong... the smell...carries quite far in the air!!!

I was concerned about being found out...that i walked far into the desert... where i was alone ... to continue the extraction and even alone... i was getting a sore neck... from looking over my shoulder constantly!

when doing an extraction...privacy is important!....Your freedom is number one! It must be protected!

Even with all my work back then ...the extraction failed...there was too much cactus goo to deal with...

napatha solvent]... for dmt is better because it evaporates faster than exylene.... the smell doesnt carry half as far as exylene odor does..

When using exylene.... You must be far!... from strangers!...Then.....[with a resperator]..... Exylene is safer to use..

I have lots of hobbies, some of that is painting. So having solvents around seems pretty typical as opposed to making me paranoid.
I think some are just more sensitive to those smells.
I like the smell of gas, so solvents are semi nice

 

[Kalitechnik]

Even with the list of xylene's positives...I still say xlyene stinks to high heaven!... ..i would never use it in an extraction ... in a house.... or apartment...maybe way out in the country/// far from neighbors noses...you DONT need unwanted attention!

Ive tryed using the stuff doing a mescaline extraction in the southern usa...The smell was so strong... the smell...carries quite far in the air!!!

I was concerned about being found out...that i walked far into the desert... where i was alone ... to continue the extraction and even alone... i was getting a sore neck... from looking over my shoulder constantly!

when doing an extraction...privacy is important!....Your freedom is number one! It must be protected!

Even with all my work back then ...the extraction failed...there was too much cactus goo to deal with...

napatha solvent]... for dmt is better because it evaporates faster than exylene.... the smell doesnt carry half as far as exylene odor does..

When using exylene.... You must be far!... from strangers!...Then.....[with a resperator]..... Exylene is safer to use..

well as much as i respect your opinion i would like to kindly say that xylene is solvent of my choice and i am using it and it doesnt smell so bad if i do just 3-4 quick pulls and than backsalt it. The odour is mininimal. And lets end this topic wheter xylene is good or not, since this topic is mainly about xylene as solvent of choice. And actually i am thinking about trying to edit this way of extraction into some TEK, that is well documented. So if anyone would be interested to use it it will be easy accesible.

 

[Transform]

Even with the list of xylene's positives...I still say xlyene stinks to high heaven!... ..i would never use it in an extraction ... in a house.... or apartment...maybe way out in the country/// far from neighbors noses...you DONT need unwanted attention!

Ive tryed using the stuff doing a mescaline extraction in the southern usa...The smell was so strong... the smell...carries quite far in the air!!!

I was concerned about being found out...that i walked far into the desert... where i was alone ... to continue the extraction and even alone... i was getting a sore neck... from looking over my shoulder constantly!

when doing an extraction...privacy is important!....Your freedom is number one! It must be protected!

Even with all my work back then ...the extraction failed...there was too much cactus goo to deal with...

napatha solvent]... for dmt is better because it evaporates faster than exylene.... the smell doesnt carry half as far as exylene odor does..

When using exylene.... You must be far!... from strangers!...Then.....[with a resperator]..... Exylene is safer to use..

I'd say it's up to each person to fit their choice of solvent to their particular situation. Some people even quite like the smell of xylene, as well as it havong legitimate uses, as @bodymechanics mentions. It's a standard solvent for certain specialised paint finishes, for example - so have a handy piece of wrought iron lying around half-painted during your extraction if you must

 

[acacian]

Also to add, that smell shouldn't really be a massive issue if you are actually wearing appropriate PPE gear. So picking a solvent based on smell is as not the best idea as it means your probably already working in a way that could be safer to your health.

@1Starway7 Having these things doesn't have to be suspect, nor does using them. Ideally you should be contextualizing as many of the things used for extraction as possible, which if push came to shove, would paint a picture that works in your favour. Keep your solvents with any paints and brushes, lye under the sink, sodium carb in the laundry.. pyrex dishes in the kitchen. Keeping all your extraction stuff together is not a great idea. It paints a clear picture.

Using a common hardware bought solvent once in a while is probably not going to raise suspicion unless it is happening often. Just do it in a well ventilated area where the scent isn't going to be strong. I know if I caught a whiff of xylene coming from a neighbour on an odd occasion I’d think nothing of it. But I guess this is a convenient perc of freeze precipitation.. no volatiles reaching the neighbour's noses. I'm sure we all have neighbours who take on random projects once in a while where you can smell a bit of paint, lacquer, or solvent. Actually I think it’s more the combination of the smell of the solvent and lye that is the potential eyebrow raiser.. solvent alone is not so strange. Introduce lye into the mix and yes it smells suspicious.

I suspect that if, for some peculiar reason, one were to attempt preparation of DMT butyrate [vomit-flavoured vapes - what's not to like?!] in DCM that the salt would show some noticeable solubility. From what I understand of it, DCM will dissolve ionic compounds once they start to contain significantly lipophilic substituents. This is what I'm extrapolating from Shulgin's observation that DOX compounds with longer 4-alkyl substituents were staying in DCM even when in salt form.

Thank you for the explanation.. there's a few key words here that are looking much more familiar now that I am studying. So hopefully soon I will be able to better get my head around this.

 

[1Starway7]

I have lots of hobbies, some of that is painting. So having solvents around seems pretty typical as opposed to making me paranoid.
I think some are just more sensitive to those smells.
I like the smell of gas, so solvents are semi nice

Shure.... if your just doing your leagle hobby...you have no reason to be parinoid...



But operating a mini drug lab..is quite a different thing...
when you are producing drugs in your kitchen...you have to have total privacy...if you value your freedom!
Thats why Exylene is a bad choice for a solvent.... It has such a potent nasty smell...
some of the people reading this are quite young......and i would hate to see them make mistakes ..[by not being carefull]...!!

there are extractions on line that use much much! safer solvents like vinegar and salt!.....you can find them on line......even safer than napatha..or exylene
its only common sense...