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Can you help me identify what type of Phalaris is that pal?

Migrated topic.
That's not Phalaris, the inflorescens is wrong and that grass has hairs on it.

There's people on here way more knowledgeable with grass id who might be able to tell you what that is, or if it has something you might want in it though...
 
reDeMpTion said:
Thanks for informations. How inflorescens should be for phalaris, what is odd? Do you mean that there are little hairs where the leaf connects to stem?

It looks like kinda Arundinoideae to me but i am not sure since the whole plant is thinner and the seeds have red-like strips.
Click to expand...
 
Phragmites australis.
It belongs to the subfamily Arundinoideae, as you said. On the other hand, Phalaris spp. belong to the subfamily Pooideae.
 
CosmicRiver said:
Phragmites australis, not active.
It belongs to the subfamily Arundinoideae, as you said. On the other hand, Phalaris spp. belong to the subfamily Pooideae.
Click to expand...

What are the main physical differences of Phragmites from Phalaris?
Thanks for info.
 
Laszlo Burek said:
What are the main physical differences of Phragmites from Phalaris?
Click to expand...
Most Phalaris species look quite different from Phragmites australis, but I guess you're referring to Phalaris arundinacea, which is the most widely distributed and also the most similar to Phragmites australis.

I'm not very good at describing them, but I think that these pictures can make it easy for you to tell the two species apart:

This is Phragmites australis:
File:Illustration Phragmites australis0.jpg - Wikipedia (drawing)
https://kasvio.avoin.jyu.fi/kasvit/J%e4rviruoko_PhragmitesAustralis/3_B.jpg (photo)

This is Phalaris arundinacea:
File:Phalaris arundinacea — Flora Batava — Volume v7.jpg - Wikipedia (drawing)
https://www.biolib.cz/IMG/GAL/BIG/155244.jpg (photo)
 
CosmicRiver said:
Laszlo Burek said:
What are the main physical differences of Phragmites from Phalaris?
Click to expand...
Most Phalaris species look quite different from Phragmites australis, but I guess you're referring to Phalaris arundinacea, which is the most widely distributed and also the most similar to Phragmites australis.

I'm not very good at describing them, but I think that these pictures can make it easy for you to tell the two species apart:

This is Phragmites australis:
File:Illustration Phragmites australis0.jpg - Wikipedia (drawing)
https://kasvio.avoin.jyu.fi/kasvit/J%e4rviruoko_PhragmitesAustralis/3_B.jpg (photo)

This is Phalaris arundinacea:
File:Phalaris arundinacea — Flora Batava — Volume v7.jpg - Wikipedia (drawing)
https://www.biolib.cz/IMG/GAL/BIG/155244.jpg (photo)
Click to expand...

That explains a lot, thanks!
Yeah i agree they look very similar except the seed colors and overall thickness/size.

Also as i saw from photos: Phalaris are located very close, like a bush. Phragmites is also located like groups but roots/plants are more apart from each other. Is that a correct observation?
 
I have to make a correction: I said Phragmites australis isn't active, but I was wrong.
It has DMT in roots, even if it seems to be a poor source compared to Phalaris arundinacea.
Both plants contain a toxic alkaloid (gramine) that needs to be separated from DMT during an extraction.
 
CosmicRiver said:
I have to make a correction: I said Phragmites australis isn't active, but I was wrong.
It has DMT in roots, even if it seems to be a poor source compared to Phalaris arundinacea.
Both plants contain a toxic alkaloid (gramine) that needs to be separated from DMT during an extraction.
Click to expand...

Can you give numbers like percantages, that would be great since i can experiment new things.
 
CosmicRiver said:
I have to make a correction: I said Phragmites australis isn't active, but I was wrong.
It has DMT in roots, even if it seems to be a poor source compared to Phalaris arundinacea.
Both plants contain a toxic alkaloid (gramine) that needs to be separated from DMT during an extraction.
Click to expand...


from this source: there are people who tried take the Phragmites australis oral(tea) and got good results. Do you think it is safe to try 45gr tea? How much gramine would be lethal?
 
Laszlo Burek said:
Yeah i agree they look very similar except the seed colors and overall thickness/size.
Click to expand...
The spikelets change color during maturation, so in some instances they could also be similar among the two species. But broadly speaking in Phragmites australis they go from purple to to tan with silver hairs, while in Phalaris arundinacea they go from light green (often with purple hues) to tan.

Laszlo Burek said:
Also as i saw from photos: Phalaris are located very close, like a bush. Phragmites is also located like groups but roots/plants are more apart from each other. Is that a correct observation?
Click to expand...
Yes, P. australis are less bushy and it's easier to spot the different plants within a group. They can also grow taller.

Laszlo Burek said:
Can you give numbers like percantages, that would be great since i can experiment new things.
Click to expand...
The reported alkaloid content for Phalaris spp. varies widely and it's from very old sources. They contain DMT, 5-MeO-DMT and bufotenine, along with gramine and other alkaloids.
The alkaloid content for Phragmites australis has never been reported. It contains DMT and bufotenine, along with gramine and other alkaloids.
This thread should help you: The Phalaris Analysis Thread - Plant Analysis and Substance Testing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
 
Laszlo Burek said:
from this source: there are people who tried take the Phragmites australis oral(tea) and got good results. Do you think it is safe to try 45gr tea? How much gramine would be lethal?
Click to expand...
DMT isn't orally active by itself.
I don't think we know the exact amount of gramine that would be lethal for a human. Even in sublethal amounts, it could give very unpleasant or even dangerous side effects. And since the gramine content in plants varies, it's not safe to experiment with these plants as long as gramine is involved.
 
CosmicRiver said:
Laszlo Burek said:
from this source: there are people who tried take the Phragmites australis oral(tea) and got good results. Do you think it is safe to try 45gr tea? How much gramine would be lethal?
Click to expand...
DMT isn't orally active by itself.
I don't think we know the exact amount of gramine that would be lethal for a human. Even in sublethal amounts, it could give very unpleasant or even dangerous side effects. And since the gramine content in plants varies, it's not safe to experiment with these plants as long as gramine is involved.
Click to expand...


Yeah, i need MAO which i can get from rue ( i have lots of them).
Thanks for answers so far.
 
I'd look at a botanical key to determine the species of the grass in the above picture. You will likely need to look up what a lot of the botanical terms mean to do this, but will get you positive identification of the grass. "Manual of the grasses of the United States" is a good one IIRC (can't currently find my copy).


A quick way to identify P. arundinacea is 1) It should have rhyzomes. 2) It should have a non-hairy ligule. 3) All stems should be round. 4) If you pull back the leaf sheath (the part that wraps around the stem) the veins should ave a "brick like" pattern. If all these match up, it is likely Phalaris a. Bonus points for being in or on a creek bed.

-D.
 
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