Can't break through, not due to purity or smoking technique

[xram]

Hi all,

My friend can't break through with DMT. Yes, he's read the thread on this. He's tried about 30 times now. He's used an eclipse H20 and changa/sandwich method with various bongs and bubblers, as well as a friend's GVG and an e-cig with highly-concentrated solution. For the freebase material he uses only very pure, crystal-clear heptane-rex'd shards (I can post one of his pics if this is in doubt).

With each of these methods he has taken many hits and held them until he has no motor function left, using amounts that have sent all of his friends off to meet the entities and then some (in some cases managing to cleanly vape ~60+mg before zoning out). He's not burning the spice - he knows that acrid, burnt-plastic taste from his first few attempts, and has taken care to avoid it since. He's facilitated breakthroughs for 7 or 8 other people. However, no matter what, he just gets, at most, some weird alien noises / high pitched whining and amorphous, not-especially-colorful moving patterns - never the complete loss of body or hyper-real scenes that others describe.

My friend is not a visual person - in fact, he can't "picture" things normally with his eyes closed or form mental images as others describe being able to do. Given this, he wonders if his difficulty with this molecule is neurological. He also wonders if anyone else has had this problem, and if/how they got around it.

Thanks!

 

[xram]

For what it's worth, my friend is not a particularly big dude (~145 lbs) and is not especially hard-headed with psychs - they usually hit him quite fast, and, for example, he finds 400mg of clean mescaline sulfate is enough for a definite (+++) experience.

 

[RAM]

I'm sure there are other threads on this, but what does your friend think a breakthrough is exactly? You seem to imply that he takes hits until he has no motor function at all left; that's going pretty far right there.

Does he think that "having a breakthrough" requires meeting entities? There are multiple reports of people never meeting entities in any of their experiences. In fact, during my past few experiences (which I would consider breakthroughs), I met with no entities at all. Rather, I experienced large energy-forms or even nothing at all! However the shift in my consciousness and interpretation was extreme. I wasn't able to figure out what breathing was, let alone interpret anything coming my way.

The idea of a breakthrough is completely subjective, although I think most Nexians would agree that it's the kind of thing where "you know it when you have one." But maybe his standards are off as to what exactly he is expecting.

Also why is pursuing a breakthrough so important? Does he think that something magical will happen when he has an experience that others would refer to by a certain name? I can tell you it won't, especially since he has already been experimenting with solid methods.

If he really wants to push it further out there, try it with some harmalas beforehand. If vaporhuasca or something of the sort doesn't get him where he wants, then I don't know what to say.

 

[Calaquendi]

Interesting situation man...

My friend is not a visual person - in fact, he can't "picture" things normally with his eyes closed or form mental images as others describe being able to do. Given this, he wonders if his difficulty with this molecule is neurological. He also wonders if anyone else has had this problem, and if/how they got around it.

There was a fellow in one of the ibogaine groups who has real difficulty experiencing enhanced visual 'depth' with any psychedelic material & imperceptible visual sensory even during dreams. He described himself as not a "visual person" -wondered if the faculty of his 'mind's eye' wired differently than most - seemed to think it an affliction, if you will, perhaps something neurological as your above mention...

Is your friend on any RX medications (in particular neuroleptics)? Any prior head trauma/concussion? I like to look at somatic possibilities first, so I can eliminate any hypochondria [hee]

Barring those things, your friend may need only to mix up his/her itinerary some. This has been a go-to protocol for many a 'stuck' adventurer - plus friend seems to have an intrepid attitude - which is great - so I'd like to share what my vibes are and advise accordingly

SET - don't know anything about friend's set - but I always feng shui my diggs with a smudge, eliminate all lighting save a candle perhaps, and insist on the chillest of ambient vibes with few attendees. 'From Within pt One' Richie Hawtin and Pete Namlook , the third track "A Million Miles to Earth" - 29 minutes of utter ineffability

Spice - I've strong intuition its time to nix the changa and even the pure spice friend has attempted before, not a dig on the materials, I've no doubt its pro and delicious - just time to allow friend's intrepid hunger for the Impossible to manifest...Take 100mg of STB spice called forth from MHRB. Shiny, golden yellow and pungent. Apply with generous glob of favorite top shelf stank and layer X 3 via sandwich method - no water bongses or new-fangled, vapo-misto-electro-sophisto gadgets them dern kids use these days. Load it in big gnarly heavy glass pipe with large bowl.

Now Fire! - by now friend should have all in order - the situation known as 'everything is everything' - it means time to jaunt: Friend should hit apparatus slowly, deeply and while praying...deep inhales held in ten seconds each - four times. You mustn't allow friend to fall out until four times have been negotiated. Wake him up and wipe the drool off if he crumples after three, but that fourth is the Grand Poo Bah.

Likely to be tears in this scenario, Lord I hope for your friend's sake there are. No matter who goes about it - this formula will do the same thing, and that is kill you , which clearly is the core of friend's wishes. Seek and Ye shall find alright.

Please forgive if this is mispercieved as know it all condescension, certainly not meant so - I have had friends who swore about similar difficulties and this was the prescription. I've yet to meet a survivor when adhering to that protocol exactly. Everything IS everything...

 

[gibran2]

In spite of your title, it sounds to me like the problem is a combination of smoking technique and device issues:

You lump the GVG and e-cigs in the same sentence, implying an equivalency between one of the best DMT delivery devices and one of the worst. You also say that he takes many hits.

I can say from personal experience that many hits taken from an e-cig do not lead to breakthrough and in fact only produce a very light experience. (Others may have more success with this device/technique.)

Also, a dose must be consumed within a reasonable amount of time. “Many hits” simply take too long. For example, if it takes 10 seconds to inhale, 15 seconds to hold, and another 10 seconds to exhale and grab a breath of fresh air, then each hit takes 35+ seconds. Ten hits would take about 6 minutes!

In contrast, a GVG loaded with 30-35 mg of freebase DMT on a ceramic disc can be inhaled in a single breath. Most of the dose will vaporize in just a few seconds. Let me tell you, 30 mg inhaled in 3 seconds produces effects quite different from 60 mg inhaled over the course of 6 minutes!

With proper technique and a good device, I think your friend will find success.

 

[○]

In spite of your title, it sounds to me like the problem is a combination of smoking technique and device issues:

You lump the GVG and e-cigs in the same sentence, implying an equivalency between one of the best DMT delivery devices and one of the worst. You also say that he takes many hits.

I can say from personal experience that many hits taken from an e-cig do not lead to breakthrough and in fact only produce a very light experience. (Others may have more success with this device/technique.)

Also, a dose must be consumed within a reasonable amount of time. “Many hits” simply take too long. For example, if it takes 10 seconds to inhale, 15 seconds to hold, and another 10 seconds to exhale and grab a breath of fresh air, then each hit takes 35+ seconds. Ten hits would take about 6 minutes!

In contrast, a GVG loaded with 30-35 mg of freebase DMT on a ceramic disc can be inhaled in a single breath. Most of the dose will vaporize in just a few seconds. Let me tell you, 30 mg inhaled in 3 seconds produces effects quite different from 60 mg inhaled over the course of 6 minutes!

With proper technique and a good device, I think your friend will find success.

 

[oversoul1919]

In spite of your title, it sounds to me like the problem is a combination of smoking technique and device issues:

You lump the GVG and e-cigs in the same sentence, implying an equivalency between one of the best DMT delivery devices and one of the worst. You also say that he takes many hits.

I can say from personal experience that many hits taken from an e-cig do not lead to breakthrough and in fact only produce a very light experience. (Others may have more success with this device/technique.)

Also, a dose must be consumed within a reasonable amount of time. “Many hits” simply take too long. For example, if it takes 10 seconds to inhale, 15 seconds to hold, and another 10 seconds to exhale and grab a breath of fresh air, then each hit takes 35+ seconds. Ten hits would take about 6 minutes!

In contrast, a GVG loaded with 30-35 mg of freebase DMT on a ceramic disc can be inhaled in a single breath. Most of the dose will vaporize in just a few seconds. Let me tell you, 30 mg inhaled in 3 seconds produces effects quite different from 60 mg inhaled over the course of 6 minutes!

With proper technique and a good device, I think your friend will find success.

This^

You have to be quick with this if you want breakthrough. I found that faster you take your hits,better experience is (of course, with proper dosage). Inhale 30-40 mg in one lungful if you (your friend) can, and you'll see what that is. I'm still training my lungs to get used to DMT vapor. I can inhale one giant toke, but then I cough shortly afterwards, and quickly exhale around half of the toke. Then I get good second one, and goodbye corporeality, see you in 10-15 minutes!

But I usually do 3 medium tokes. That way is the most comfortable.

 

[xram]

Thanks for the replies. He's aware of the need to get as much as possible in a short period of time. He's not taking a rip and then setting the bong down for 3 minutes. As I mentioned, he's helped a number of people get there, and does what he advises them to do - take as big a hit as one can hold, hold for 15-20 seconds, immediately take next large hit, repeat until unable to use bong. When I say many hits, I mean he can take 4 large bong rips of vaped shards in between layers of 1:1 changa within 60 seconds (I suppose that's not really "many", but it sure seems like it at the time). He's more experienced with smoking than most of these other people with whom he's shared, and can take very substantial hits without coughing.

I understand why people are skeptical and assume that it is still a smoking technique issue - I'd assume the same thing. FWIW, I agree about e-cigs (at least so far) being substantially inferior to the GVG in terms of getting enough in a short window - I only mentioned his use of them to demonstrate that he is not new to this hobby.

With respect to expectations, he knows that his experience, while "strong", still sounds very different from that described by his friends after they return. My friend's not on any medications and had no prior head trauma - he's just never been able to form mental pictures, which an old cog-sci professor once mentioned is a somewhat rare but real condition. Thus he increasingly believes that it may a problem with his brain wiring, which would be disappointing.

But perhaps the solution is still just to smoak more... I'll advise him to try a large amount of jungle spice in a GVG and see if that finally does the trick, perhaps after drinking a bit of caapi tea. Calaquendi, I'll also tell him to give "From Within" a spin and see if that helps too - he's been mostly using Four Tet and Harold Budd, so maybe the set needs to change too.

Thanks again all for the suggestions. My friend just wants to finally see what all the fuss is about (so far, it's been weird but otherwise kind of boring, which seems like the wrong adjective for this molecule!). Let's hope he gets there soon.

 

[TGO]

Practice makes perfect, right?

Perhaps a break from the spice is in order? There have been times where I don't go as far as I would like to. Almost like being "locked out" of hyperspace or something. It is still trippy and odd but nothing like those breakthroughs.

For me, there were two methods around this:

1. Take some time off. It couldn't hurt. When coming back to the spice after a break it has always been rewarding IME.
2. The addition of either oral or sublingual absorption of harmalas in combination with smoalked spice.

I don't know if any of this is really helpful or not...:d But I hope your friend finds a solution

 

[Hiyo Quicksilver]

As somebody who has DMT visuals seemingly just as impossibly intricate and stunning as most anyone; What I see is not what most captivates my attention, and is by far the most worthwhile facet of the whole package.

...Maybe it's not a neurological issue that's keeping him from the full effects of the substance, but rather a psychological one. Fixations and expectations have a huge effect on psychedelic experiences after all.

Perhaps he's simply so focused on certain senses or perspectives when he tokes up that he's totally ignoring the portion of his reality where the drug is actually manifesting.


... ... ...Or maybe it's just not his time. Go figure.

-Happy Trails

 

[DmnStr8]

Maybe he doesn't want to see.

 

[hixidom]

He's aware of the need to get as much as possible in a short period of time. He's not taking a rip and then setting the bong down for 3 minutes. As I mentioned, he's helped a number of people get there, and does what he advises them to do - take as big a hit as one can hold, hold for 15-20 seconds, immediately take next large hit, repeat until unable to use bong. When I say many hits, I mean he can take 4 large bong rips of vaped shards in between layers of 1:1 changa within 60 seconds (I suppose that's not really "many", but it sure seems like it at the time). He's more experienced with smoking than most of these other people with whom he's shared, and can take very substantial hits without coughing.

I know my experience doesn't mean squat in this case but, in my experience, it only takes one good hit, as Gibran said. You mentioned your friend was using changa. I've known weed to cause other psychedelics to have a stronger or weaker effect on people. Your friend might try not smoking weed for a month or so, then vaping DMT by itself. Just a suggestion. Otherwise I 2nd what Gibran said about the MAOI. The vaporhuasca experience will be different but it is still otherworldly. I recommend grinding up 1tsp of Rue seeds in a coffee grinder and parachuting the powder in 3 parts. You can use more but in my experience 2tsp will cause purging. Others recommend putting the powder in a small shot glass with lemon juice. In any case it's a good idea to do this on an empty stomach.

All that being said, I have also met people who simply don't experience entities as described by others (I'm one of them). And then some people aren't affected much by psychedelic drugs in general. Maybe your friend's body is just really great at breaking down DMT. In that case the MAOI should help.

 

[starway6]

I would try some ..[reversable MAOI].. before vaping like syrian rue or cappi extract taken oraly before smoking or smoked all together...

I have noticed a huge diference in effect mixing a little cappi extract powder in with my spice...

Using this maoi extract will produce a noticable diference!

 

[xram]

Thanks, I'll have him give it a try. He's got some 10x caapi leaf in the changa, but he'll dose a bit of it orally beforehand too. Thanks for the tips and well-wishes, all - I'm sure he appreciates it greatly.

 

[Whatis]

I just want to add that DMT tolerance is a thing as well. It's rare but it is real. My bro needs about 70 mg of properly vaped dmt to break through. I only need about 25mg.

I would suggest smoking dmt crystals using a vapor genie. You can smoke everything you need to in one go. Just draw slow and steady and sometimes you won't even feel it going in. Relax and hold your breath for as long as you can.

Then gradually increase the amount of crystals each time. Start with 30mg, and increase in 5-10mg doses at each session. You will soon find your sweet spot.

Also, you must 'let go' into the experience. Don't have any preconceived ideas, try and rid the body of tension and make sure you are comfortable.

I wish you luck my friend

 

[Global]

Perhaps part of the problem is that he is keeping on taking hits until he cannot use the bong (or whichever) anymore. There's a very narrow time window that the hits must be done in. I know you said he's not waiting in between or anything like that, but we can agree that taking 4 hits will inherently take more time than taking 2 or 3 hits. To a certain extent, it's not necessarily how much is consumed, but rather how much is consumed in that very small window.

 

[Kazoo...]

My friend is not a visual person - in fact, he can't "picture" things normally with his eyes closed or form mental images as others describe being able to do.

I recently read about Congenital aphantasia, you may find some correlation In regards to your normal inability to form mental pictures.