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CFS/ME patients and DMT immune regulation

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Adhara

Adhara

Lost bird
Hi guys I'd love to hear your experienced opinions in this very difficult condition that doctors haven't been able (and aren't very interested) to solve.

The thing is called Chronic Fatige Syndrome or Myalgic Encephalomyelitis and it's characterized by abnormal mitochondrial function, suppressed immune response and hypothalamic-pituitary-adrenal axis dysfunction. One of the last factors to watch out for is oxidative stress and the NO/ONOO cycle.

I'm myself a sufferer from this condition and came to this forum to share my great experience of recovery from "mycrodosing" DMT.

It seems there are already another sufferers in this forum that have gone through this, you can find their experience and mine in this other thread.

If there are any more of you out there I'd love to read you in this thread :)

I've seen some of you already know of the studies about the subject of DMT immunomodulation as we can see on those threads:


But I cannot comment on them just yet, so I'll link you to those here anyway :p :

Psychedelics and Immunomodulation: Novel Approaches and Therapeutic Opportunities

Psychedelic N,N-Dimethyltryptamine and 5-Methoxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine Modulate Innate and Adaptive Inflammatory Responses through the Sigma-1 Receptor of Human Monocyte-Derived Dendritic Cells

I'll be updating this thread with some more studies about CFS/ME. I've already told about my experience to some reputed doctors in the field of psychedelics and they gave me positive responses so I expect to keep an information exchange with them if some light is given on the subject. I'm also currently trying to inform CFS/ME experts about this but that is getting a little more difficult (You know, drugs are bad mmmkay?)

Just to start I'll point you to this pic on NO/ONOO cycle and this other study about cytoquines in CFS/ME so you can join some dots.

v13n2a06-fig01.jpg


Serum Immune Proteins in Moderate and Severe Chronic Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Patients


Just so you guys know I've got no advanced knowledges in biology or chemistry, nor medicine. I'm just a patient who has found some hope after 5 years of suffering and now I'm just trying to bring light to all this and see if DMT is really what I've been needing.(Also, English is not my first language :p)

:) thanks for being here, hope to read your opinions.
 
Adhara said:
But I cannot comment on them just yet, so I'll link you to those here anyway :p :
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You can now. 8)

Great information! Great post! Thanks for sharing. :thumb_up:

I'm not all that familiar with CFS/ME and I have yet to read the research you linked but I'm curious about something. I was approached recently about the possibilities of using aya or even possibly psilocybin to treat MS. I searched around the net, but the information I was able to find was fairly scarce and fairly spurious, yet still quite intriguing. I'm not sure how similar MS and CFS are, I was just wondering if you thought your microdosing regimin work in that case as well? Also have you tried with psilocybin to see if it works the same?

Also can you expound a bit on your microdosing regimen? What kinda doses constitute microdoses in this case? What is the ROA you use? Are harmalas involved at all? That kind of thing.
 
I'll be watching this thread. Psychedelics (and don't forget oral cannabis and Syrian Rue) hold vastly underrated promise for the treatment of autoimmune and chronic diseases, in my estimation and experience.

Woot, kudos, etc.
 
dreamer042 said:
Adhara said:
But I cannot comment on them just yet, so I'll link you to those here anyway :p :
Click to expand...
You can now. 8)

Great information! Great post! Thanks for sharing. :thumb_up:

I'm not all that familiar with CFS/ME and I have yet to read the research you linked but I'm curious about something. I was approached recently about the possibilities of using aya or even possibly psilocybin to treat MS. I searched around the net, but the information I was able to find was fairly scarce and fairly spurious, yet still quite intriguing. I'm not sure how similar MS and CFS are, I was just wondering if you thought your microdosing regimin work in that case as well? Also have you tried with psilocybin to see if it works the same?

Also can you expound a bit on your microdosing regimen? What kinda doses constitute microdoses in this case? What is the ROA you use? Are harmalas involved at all? That kind of thing.
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About MS: The doctors working in DMT researchs sugest it is one of the conditions that could benefit from it. I actually had a familiar who died from ALS (not blood related) so if it gave good results I'd try my best to divulgue the info to that comunity too, it is a horrible and dangerous condition that also needs some answers.

About my microdosing, that I've explained a little in the first thread I linked. I still don't have a precise balance to check the quantity of my spice so I do what I can with my 0.01 balance and divide the tiniest dose I can meassure. I've been taking between 1mg and 4mg I stimate. Vaped, no iMAO. But I'm thinking on reducing it after having my first DMT break through. I've read some guys talking about the lasting curative effects of the trip, going up to 3 weeks and also I've seen in the Ede Frecska's paper that optimal dosis for immune regulations are 100ug (Still have to check if those ug are total or per Kg).

About psilocybin, yeah, I've done plenty of shrooms and I always felt them making me go back to life somehow, I've run, climbed trees, dance and jump during most of my trips with them (I didn't know why or how that was possible but I felt so "me" that I couldn't but do it) and also I've always feel positive activation of my mind and energies for at least a week after taking them. (I think it's not so efficient as DMT cause the 6 hours of being better made me spent a lot of energy in the trip, mentally and phisically)


PD: thanks for the "promotion" :thumb_up: gonna love being in the nexus.
 
I'm also watching this thread. I'm very interested in the curative effects of DMT in regards to CFS. I have suffered from CFS for the past 20yrs but was never diagnosed. It wasn't until last year after my experience with oral DMT (MHRB + rue) that I finally found some relief. I'm still struggling with lingering symptoms that I'm hoping will be eliminated by vaping DMT.

Please keep us updated on your progress and how you feel when you finally breakthrough.
 
There's also annecdotal evidence that psychedelics (esp. psilocybin) may be useful for treatment of fibromyalgia.

The thing about psychedelics is that the mood lift associated with use may be altering your perception of your own physical and mental well-being without actually changing system-level function. The trick here would be some kind of blinded/placebo controlled study, although how you'd do that with a hallucinogen is utterly beyond me.

Keeping an eye on this thread though. I wonder if this is modulated by sigma-1 function. If you can get your hands on a sigma-1 antagonist, see if microdosing looses effectiveness.

Blessings
~ND
 
I already took a 20mg doses, 2 days ago. It's made me sleep like I haven't done for years, also I've been able to reduce almost totally my cannabis consume that I mostly take for medical reasons. After researching I've found it could be due to glutamate inhibition that also happens with cannabis. Glutamate is supposed to be over-activated in CFS and FM leading to excitotoxicity.

My mind is also working better and faster than it's been for some months. I've been able to study and the "mental fog" has gone away for most part of the days (coming back a little alongside with head aches after eating some things).

I've also felt a better tolerance to effort and exercise but my body is heavily contractured and pain keeps bothering me, tho I think the pain is more "clear" and less spreaded over my body. Anyway I tend to start the pain episodes when I get better from the fatigue ones. I don't think of them too bad and I am used to it.

I think this experience has been really positive and I'm feeling like doing it again. Also, I didn't break through DMT and I loved what I was feeling (like being called from above to the "other side") so I'll be doing it again soon and in bigger doses. :d 😁



I'm also watching this thread. I'm very interested in the curative effects of DMT in regards to CFS. I have suffered from CFS for the past 20yrs but was never diagnosed. It wasn't until last year after my experience with oral DMT (MHRB + rue) that I finally found some relief. I'm still struggling with lingering symptoms that I'm hoping will be eliminated by vaping DMT.

Please keep us updated on your progress and how you feel when you finally breakthrough.
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Ksr6pp, 20yrs of CFS must have done lots of bad to your system and I'd love to know what you experienced from that oral dose. How much did you take and for how long did the benefits longed? Also, which symptoms did you feel that relieved the most? Would also love to hear what you get if you end vaping DMT :)


he thing about psychedelics is that the mood lift associated with use may be altering your perception of your own physical and mental well-being without actually changing system-level function. The trick here would be some kind of blinded/placebo controlled study, although how you'd do that with a hallucinogen is utterly beyond me.
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Yeah Nathanial, that's what I thought when I took shrooms, I thought it was mostly a big emotional force and "sense" I got to get through my path. But now, thinking about it I realise the better year I spent with my condition being "tamed" was the one I took shrooms almost monthly, and I wasn't precisely well just before it.


Keeping an eye on this thread though. I wonder if this is modulated by sigma-1 function. If you can get your hands on a sigma-1 antagonist, see if microdosing looses effectiveness.
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I'm scared of taking a sigma-1 antagonist for I'm in a really bad state of my condition right now. Some weeks ago I was barely able to get out of the bed, read or write. I'm getting more and more convinced of the benefits of DMT in my condition after reading its effects on ion channels modulation (for Ca2+) and suppresion (of Na+) and how it also acts on mitochondrias and aforementioned glutamate through NMDA inhibition. Also, as I pointed out in the first post it directly inhibits the segregation of the cytokines related to CFS (in what we now know as the NO/ONOO cycle).

But I'm just a philosophy student and my biochemistry knowledges just go back to my last years of high school, so this all could be completely misinterpreted.

So I hope anyone who is more knowledgeable on these topics would come here and refute me or bring some light about all this :)

Just for the record and if anyone is interested in sending a more valuable message than I would, I've been able to open a communication channel with Attila Szabo, author of one of those researchs I linked in the first post, the one about the promising posibilities of psychedelics in immunomodulation.

:thumb_up: I'll keep reporting.
 
Adhara said:
Ksr6pp, 20yrs of CFS must have done lots of bad to your system and I'd love to know what you experienced from that oral dose. How much did you take and for how long did the benefits longed? Also, which symptoms did you feel that relieved the most? Would also love to hear what you get if you end vaping DMT :)
Click to expand...

It was 20 years thinking that all of my symptoms were part of a chemical imbalance. Like many out there, I was diagnosed with depression and was put on a cocktail of meds which did more harm than good and offered false hope. My symptoms were typical of anyone suffering from CFS. My main worries was that I was losing my mind. I lived a life of depersonalization and dissociation which would equate to the often reported "brain fog". I reached a point of desperation and was ready to try anything.

Long story short, here's the path that I took which led me to DMT:
Rx Antidepressants => Rx nasal Ketamine =>
Ibogaine HCL flood dose => Mimosahuasca (self administered) =>
Ayahuasca (6x ceremonies in Peru) => Vaped DMT

Surprisingly, relief came spiritually. Before any of this, I was under the impression that everything was caused by a chemical imbalance in my brain and that by doing psychedelics I can miraculously fix my brain. It didn't work out like that though. One night, as I was coming down from a MHRB/rue brew, I felt an immediate relief as if a ominous weight/cloud has just been lifted off of me. Instinctively I just knew that it was a ghost/attached spirit/entity that had just left me.

My MHRB/rue brew consisted of 8g powdered MHRB and 2g ground rue seed. Brewing consisted of 3 washes simmered down to a manageable drinking amount. The syrian rue was mixed with water and taken 45 min before the MHRB brew.

I'm feeling relatively great compared to my first MHRB experience, but I feel that there's still healing to be done. I'm looking to feel WHOLE again and in harmony with the universe, as apposed to the past 20 years of chaos. I know it sounds deluded, but in my heart and mind this is achievable.

I vaped 5mg of DMT this past weekend, still testing the waters and improving my technique. GVG + liquid pad + torch lighter.

I've left out alot of details so let me know if you have any questions.

Can you provide an update of how you're feeling and if you've achieved a breakthrough?

FYI. Here's a couple more CFS testimonies.

DMT - Erowid Exp - 'Cured Post-CFS/ME & Depression'

An Experience with DMT. 'Cured Post-CFS/ME & Depression' by Ohayoco
www.erowid.org
 
Thanks for posting 😁 I don't know much about CFS but in my research for my own autoimmune disease I encountered mention of it a few times. I have Chronic Inflammatory Demyelinating Polyneuropathy and I find that psychedelics definitely smooth the edges. I don't get much lasting relief though. The thing that's helped me the most is a diet called "AIP" which has probably sent me about 80% into remission and I'm currently doing some heavy work with probiotics/antibiotics to try and get that last 20% if i can. I recall seeing gut-inflammation as being possibly linked to CFS as well so the diet may be worth a try if you're looking to branch out.

The info on psychedelics is pretty interesting though. Definitely a bonus though I try to take on things at the source when i can :p
 
Hey OP!

I'm really glad to hear DMT has helped you with your CFS.

Here is a lecture by Ede Frecska and Szabo on the Immunomodulatory and tissue regeneration effects described in the papers.

Not sure if this has been posted already, but I hadn't seen it.

 
Hi guys.

I keep doing my testings!

I don't know if I've broken trough yet but last time was pretty cool. I got lovely geometrical, kaleidoscopic, "eyefull" (literally eyes everywhere) visions and I got in instant lotus position from that. I felt as I was being teached by some great cosmic proffessor (or guru?) and it made me cuestion everything, even my use of drugs as a way to heal myself.

I had two of those "lessons" and I got pretty scared and euphoric at the same time.

I liked it, I love philosophy after all and loved to see the drug making me question what it itself had taught me.

I got some of my energies back and danced a little.

The next days I kept getting better in many ways but felt apathetic and maybe a little deppressed? You guys think it's a normal reaction to DMT? Maybe I need more serotonin.


I feel like it really helps but I'll interrupt the "treatment" to get some testing done on my system. Once I get that done I'll decide what to do next. But If I get really bad I think I won't hesitate in using good ol' DMT again.

At least it's an endogenous substance with a huge use historial and not a poorly tested chemical.
 
What an intriguing thread! :thumb_up: As someone currently going through CFS myself I find anything that could be positive and healing worth a second look. Have never tried DMT, but am curious to find out more about it's healing potential. Would love to hear from you what you've found out now that a little more time has passed, Adhara? Are the improvements temporary or have you found them to be stable also without the continued use of DMT? :)
 
I've had CFS for the past 5 years. DMT hasn't really fixed anything, but sometimes it does lift the fatigue for an hour or possibly the rest of the day. Not completely, but it seems to help. I've also had relief with LSD and mushrooms (after the come-up). Often, I'm more tired the day after, but in a different kind of way. More similar to how one would feel from staying up too late the night before (even though I'm a day tripper these days).

The main way psychedelics have helped me is they give me a glimpse of feeling better, plus I enjoy the psychedelic experience. Perhaps the neuroplasticity helps program me for feeling better too. I do feel better than I did years ago, but more recovery is desired. I still get slammed with fatigue with travel (even just a hour or so away), exercise beyond a short walk around the block (and sometimes that'll be too much), or thinking too much (not only physical exertion requires energy!).
 
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