1. mix leaf with whiskey
2. drink whiskey?
2. drink whiskey?
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Chali Extraction Ideas
- Thread starter Oncewas
- Start date
you will still have to defat tons after freezing...I had a real hard time with chaliponga extractions..best to try a fasi or fasa I think..
I did and a/b and it took like 6 defatts and there was still fats and oils left in the end.
I did and a/b and it took like 6 defatts and there was still fats and oils left in the end.
maybe use ipa
oh man oh man....please scientist geniuses of the nexus...PLEASE get involved in this thread!!! i have a pound of beautiful powdered chaliponga and have been absolutely stumped as to what to do.....
if all else fails i can use it for aya, but i would LOVE to figure a way to pull the n-n and the 5-meo TOGETHER! have a super special, very potent 2/3-full spectrum freebase DMT. maybe even do a cebil extract for bufotenine and put them all together to have a 100% DMT experience..??
i (also) have a dream!
R.I.P. MLK!!
LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!
if all else fails i can use it for aya, but i would LOVE to figure a way to pull the n-n and the 5-meo TOGETHER! have a super special, very potent 2/3-full spectrum freebase DMT. maybe even do a cebil extract for bufotenine and put them all together to have a 100% DMT experience..??
i (also) have a dream!
R.I.P. MLK!!
LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!
whats oxygenation?
Sorry guys, after SWIM found out about Virola theiodora resin being an active source of 5-MeO-DMT without extraction being needed, SWIM totally lost interest in this subject.
If you take Virola theiodora resin sublingually in doses of 100-1000 mg, you can experience a 5-MeO-DMT trip. No extraction is needed. Why extract when you don’t need to? I just don’t see the point in this. It’s like extracting caffeine. Why bother extracting caffeine when you can just buy coffee and use that?
There are several vendors (most in Europe, with at least one in the USA) that sell the resin. All of them are good that SWIM has tried.
SWIM doesn’t like smoked 5-MeO-DMT at all, so he sees no reason to concentrate the alkaloid. Sublingual is the way to go with 5-MeO-DMT.
Here’s what SWIM discovered about 5-MeO-DMT when he was still interested in this subject:
5-MeO-DMT Chemical Properties
Physical state: crystalline solid; 5-MeO-DMT-n-Oxide is an oil
Color: white; 5-MeO-DMT-n-Oxide is pale violet
XLogP3: 1.5
pKa: 9.3
Melting Point: 67.7 C (154 F)
Boiling Point: Unknown
Molecular Weight: 218.29482
Chemical Formula: C13H18N2O
Crystallization solvents: hexane; light petroleum-benzene
Storage: Store at 2-8°C
DMT Chemical Properties
Physical state: crystalline solid; DMT-n-Oxide is an oil
Color: white; DMT-n-Oxide is amber or tan
XLogP3: 2.5
pKa: 8.68 (ethanol-water)
Melting Point: 44.6-46.8 C (116 F)
Boiling Point: 60-80 C
Molecular Weight: 188.26884
Chemical Formula: C12H16N2
Crystallization solvents: methanol-light petroleum; light petroleum; heptane; hexane
Solubility: soluble in DCM, naphtha, heptane, d-limonene, xylene; insoluble in naphtha @ -17 C, heptane @ -17 C, somewhat insoluble in water.
Alright so what does that data tell us?
First off, according to the XLogP3 data we can see that DMT is much less polar than 5-MeO-DMT. So when running a column with silica, DMT will elute first.
Also, because the pKa of DMT is lower, it can be freebased at a lower pH.
Ok, so think about those two a little bit. DMT’s pKa is 8.68, 5-MeO-DMT’s pKa is 9.3. If you do an A/B, DMT can be 50% freebased at 8.68, while 5-MeO-DMT would only be a little more than 10% freebased. This is not good enough separation. If you freebase at 7.68, that would freebase 10% of the DMT, and a little more than 1% of the 5-MeO-DMT.
So, I think a good possible simple approach at separation is to do an A/B on your alkaloids (not from a plant), get the pH at about 7.68 to freebase 10% of the DMT. Keep in mind that with an A/B, even at such a low pH, most of the DMT will migrate into the non-polar solvent, much more than 10%. Extract with the most non-polar solvent you have, such as naphtha or heptane. The XlogP3 data tells us that DMT is more soluble in these solvents than 5-MeO-DMT is. Extract about 4 times with the non-polar solvent to get most of the DMT. Next adjust the pH to 10 or so, and extract with DCM or some other solvent that is more polar than naphtha or heptane. 3 pulls should be enough. This should get 5-MeO-DMT almost free of DMT.
Another possible way to separate them is by salting them in acetone, MEK, or DCM. According to their XLogP3 data, salts of 5-MeO-DMT should be less soluble in acetone than salts of DMT. SWIM tried using citric acid. That seemed to work very well one time, but didn’t work well the next time he tried it. This is something to toy around with. Maybe acetic acid would be good to use. From what I’ve read, DMT acetate is soluble in DCM, MEK, and acetone. It’s likely that 5-MeO-DMT acetate is not.
So those are some ideas to work with.
If you take Virola theiodora resin sublingually in doses of 100-1000 mg, you can experience a 5-MeO-DMT trip. No extraction is needed. Why extract when you don’t need to? I just don’t see the point in this. It’s like extracting caffeine. Why bother extracting caffeine when you can just buy coffee and use that?
There are several vendors (most in Europe, with at least one in the USA) that sell the resin. All of them are good that SWIM has tried.
SWIM doesn’t like smoked 5-MeO-DMT at all, so he sees no reason to concentrate the alkaloid. Sublingual is the way to go with 5-MeO-DMT.
Here’s what SWIM discovered about 5-MeO-DMT when he was still interested in this subject:
5-MeO-DMT Chemical Properties
Physical state: crystalline solid; 5-MeO-DMT-n-Oxide is an oil
Color: white; 5-MeO-DMT-n-Oxide is pale violet
XLogP3: 1.5
pKa: 9.3
Melting Point: 67.7 C (154 F)
Boiling Point: Unknown
Molecular Weight: 218.29482
Chemical Formula: C13H18N2O
Crystallization solvents: hexane; light petroleum-benzene
Storage: Store at 2-8°C
DMT Chemical Properties
Physical state: crystalline solid; DMT-n-Oxide is an oil
Color: white; DMT-n-Oxide is amber or tan
XLogP3: 2.5
pKa: 8.68 (ethanol-water)
Melting Point: 44.6-46.8 C (116 F)
Boiling Point: 60-80 C
Molecular Weight: 188.26884
Chemical Formula: C12H16N2
Crystallization solvents: methanol-light petroleum; light petroleum; heptane; hexane
Solubility: soluble in DCM, naphtha, heptane, d-limonene, xylene; insoluble in naphtha @ -17 C, heptane @ -17 C, somewhat insoluble in water.
Alright so what does that data tell us?
First off, according to the XLogP3 data we can see that DMT is much less polar than 5-MeO-DMT. So when running a column with silica, DMT will elute first.
Also, because the pKa of DMT is lower, it can be freebased at a lower pH.
Ok, so think about those two a little bit. DMT’s pKa is 8.68, 5-MeO-DMT’s pKa is 9.3. If you do an A/B, DMT can be 50% freebased at 8.68, while 5-MeO-DMT would only be a little more than 10% freebased. This is not good enough separation. If you freebase at 7.68, that would freebase 10% of the DMT, and a little more than 1% of the 5-MeO-DMT.
So, I think a good possible simple approach at separation is to do an A/B on your alkaloids (not from a plant), get the pH at about 7.68 to freebase 10% of the DMT. Keep in mind that with an A/B, even at such a low pH, most of the DMT will migrate into the non-polar solvent, much more than 10%. Extract with the most non-polar solvent you have, such as naphtha or heptane. The XlogP3 data tells us that DMT is more soluble in these solvents than 5-MeO-DMT is. Extract about 4 times with the non-polar solvent to get most of the DMT. Next adjust the pH to 10 or so, and extract with DCM or some other solvent that is more polar than naphtha or heptane. 3 pulls should be enough. This should get 5-MeO-DMT almost free of DMT.
Another possible way to separate them is by salting them in acetone, MEK, or DCM. According to their XLogP3 data, salts of 5-MeO-DMT should be less soluble in acetone than salts of DMT. SWIM tried using citric acid. That seemed to work very well one time, but didn’t work well the next time he tried it. This is something to toy around with. Maybe acetic acid would be good to use. From what I’ve read, DMT acetate is soluble in DCM, MEK, and acetone. It’s likely that 5-MeO-DMT acetate is not.
So those are some ideas to work with.
69ron said:
yea, I don't see the need to work with Chali in this manner, personally I enjoy it in my ayahuasca, but haven't found the energy or interest to spend tons of time , as ron said, extracting things that don't need to be extracted.
ron theres no infoooz
Okay here's the theoretical extraction tek.
wait i forgetttt
wait i forgetttt
well then.
fortuantely i just received a nice little 250mg bag of virola resin a couple weeks back and now i think i will simply give it the go. as for the chali....all one full pound of it.....i've got a sneaking suspicion that an aya ceremony is forthcoming....
thanks ron n' snozz.....nothing like good ol' straight-forward honesty!
LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!
fortuantely i just received a nice little 250mg bag of virola resin a couple weeks back and now i think i will simply give it the go. as for the chali....all one full pound of it.....i've got a sneaking suspicion that an aya ceremony is forthcoming....
thanks ron n' snozz.....nothing like good ol' straight-forward honesty!
LOVE AND GRATITUDE!!
Fine swim will do this one alone.
Expect a tek in a few weeks.
Expect a tek in a few weeks.
sorry brother....i'm just waaaay too far behind you guys in terms of chemistry ability... 
i was kinda inspired by your tek until i got to the whole column part and then i just fell by the side of the road! :lol:
best of luck to you though and i can't wait to hear how it turns out!!
L&G!!
i was kinda inspired by your tek until i got to the whole column part and then i just fell by the side of the road! :lol:
best of luck to you though and i can't wait to hear how it turns out!!
L&G!!
lolwut
i personally WANT n-n and 5 meo in the same pile! is there a SIMPLE way to extract both together? do a simple A/B or STB that leaves me with a n-n/5meo combo crystal? this is what i'm curious about....i would like to do a bufo extract and add it to a n-n/5meo freebase....
i haven't heard/seen anything on a FULL SPECTRUM DMT freebase blend. all three forms in one.....sounds like it would be quite an experience...
L&G!!
i haven't heard/seen anything on a FULL SPECTRUM DMT freebase blend. all three forms in one.....sounds like it would be quite an experience...
L&G!!
Do you mean you want a full spectrum chali spice?antrocles said:
> STB with lime...pull with limo...precipitate with FASI...freebase precipitates...pull with dry IPA.....there you go.
I've done this just recently with some chali....stopped at the fumarate stage & cleaned em' up for oral use.....but they could be freebased and pulled with IPA or acetone.
This would yield a full spectrum chali spice that includes 5meo, correct? I mean, it wouldn't get left behind at any stage would it?
i'm watching this thread like a hawk!!
dimitrius- how was the full spectrum chali fumarate? did you try it yet? maybe i'll just stop there and use this chali for pharma....i'd imagine ol 69ron would be behind that idea anyways, as he is strongly opposed to smoking 5meo. since i've never tried 5meo, this might be just the thing.....
thanks for all your wisdom guys!
L&G!!
dimitrius- how was the full spectrum chali fumarate? did you try it yet? maybe i'll just stop there and use this chali for pharma....i'd imagine ol 69ron would be behind that idea anyways, as he is strongly opposed to smoking 5meo. since i've never tried 5meo, this might be just the thing.....
thanks for all your wisdom guys!
L&G!!
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