Changa is over for me - definitely

[picatris]

No, this is not one of those posts by overwhelmed psychonauts from a traumatic experience. I wish!

I'm quitting changa for health reasons. And I'm writing this message so that other people with this condition or symptoms may know that others have been there and suffered accordingly.

In the first place I'm moderately asthmatic, not too bad, but I do have occasional fits which are not dramatic, just extremely unpleasant. Secondly I'm not a smoker - I can handle a nice joint, a cigarette or even a cigar at a party, but I do not smoke regularly nor ever did. A note that is important. Regular tobacco or pot smoking does not provoke asthma. Never did.

My first efforts with smoked psychedelic substances were with pure spice, which I could barely inhale, to get only very mild effects. I then switched to changa and settled on a nice mint 1:1 mix. With this I finally did breakthrough on spice, and did it several times. Yet on the next day after each trip, my throat was sore and invariably I got asthma during the night or in the day after. In one of the last times I tried changa my asthma was so bad that it took me over a month to recover. When I felt healthy enough to do it again, my body simply refused to inhale. My throat closed as I was inhaling the smoke, and started with convulsions. If you never had a convulsing throat, you really do not want to know. A pretty unpleasant experience. After this failed round I tried other blends and even tried some tobacco. The mildest I could find and could smoke without any problems. However when imbibed with spice (and beautiful, beautiful white spice) I got the same thing over again, a convulsing throat. I guess that my body simply does not want spice over this route. So I call it quit!

I will always have the two little sisters: Aya and Pharma!


[the above story was dictated to me by a masochist Leprechaun. I'm just reposting]

 

[soulfood]

Very wise.

Also, there's nothing little about those sisters

 

[lyserge]

The mildest I could find and could smoke without any problems. However when imbibed with spice (and beautiful, beautiful white spice) I got the same thing over again, a convulsing throat. I guess that my body simply does not want spice over this route. So I call it quit!

Hmm the same happened for a friend when she made some changa out of some impure, though beautiful white Spice; her lungs were sore and hurting for the better part of a week, after only a couple of drags. She ended up throwing out that batch of changa, then recrystallizing the Spice and making a new batch of changa. She never had the problem again. Your symptoms sound similar to the ones described; have you tried recrystallizing?

 

[Dorge]

The ph of the spice is too basic... its not washed properly SWIM would say. SWIM has seen the same thing happen with people who dont properly wash their spice... burns like hell.
get spice that is washed properly, and make a changa that is 10x caapi leaf extracted with some celio vine added to it... then evap the spice and such with mullien, cordyceps mushrooms, mint, and chaga mushrooms all three very good for your lungs and even asthma even when smoked.
SWIM would never say keep smoking if your having those reactions... but if your having those reactions there maybe reasons why others do who are not asthmatic...
Go for a blend that helps the lungs. if your spice is good you will not have these effects.

 

[picatris]

The ph of the spice is too basic... its not washed properly SWIM would say. SWIM has seen the same thing happen with people who dont properly wash their spice... burns like hell.

hmmm... that may be an option. This Leprechaun never did wash his spice. What do you recommend? acetone wash? dH2O, to remove polar contaminants?

Thank you and lysergify for the suggestions!

 

[endlessness]

lol I did think: "here we go again" when reading the thread title

In any case, there is a HUGE difference with vaporizing and smoking. I would say you should respect your body, but if you do consider using dmt/changa like this again, try a vaporgenie, it will really make worlds of difference.

otherwise, orally is wonderful, its my preffered method, actually (but there's always a place in my heart for vaporizing some dmt )

 

[plumsmooth]

I have to agree, having recently tried the VG with some organic full range, straight goo, without any herbs; this is worlds of difference from the old days of chemy orange spice smoked. However, I did unfortunately notice some of the negative after effects of smoking, even with this route. But I am not sure if it was other things going on for me that day. The type of effects I am referring to are stiff neck and shoulders and a little tension in the chest, slight headache-- side effects I recognize from smoking in the past.

I feel that I may be more sensitive than others in this regard, and may have slightly weaker lungs. I also aerobically exercise regularly. I am trying to determine if this method of administration is right for me currently. I am not sure. I am trying to use a drag or two on a hand rolled cigarette or joint as a reference, since this is about the extent of smoking that is incurred.

If I can succeed in a sublingual combo, and master that route, than I may have to even lay the VG down for now. I would really like to know how heavy of a tar and what effect Vaporized full range spice has of the lungs and body. But I am sure it is different for everyone.

I think also, how much vapor/smoke is needed to breakthrough is an issue. It seems one needs to hit at least 2 times or more to breakthrough, which of course puts more of a burden on lung than if only a tiny wisp of smoke was needed.

 

[Ginkgo]

It is wonderful that you listen to your body!! I myself am not an especially big fan of smoking DMT because of this, among other reasons. Vaporized is a bit better, but does still have problem. I suggest you to take it orally, to my mind that experience is a hundred times better than the smoked one!

 

[gibran2]

...If I can succeed in a sublingual combo, and master that route, than I may have to even lay the VG down for now. I would really like to know how heavy of a tar and what effect Vaporized full range spice has of the lungs and body. But I am sure it is different for everyone.

I think also, how much vapor/smoke is needed to breakthrough is an issue. It seems one needs to hit at least 2 times or more to breakthrough, which of course puts more of a burden on lung than if only a tiny wisp of smoke was needed.

I use relatively pure spice (off-white, slight yellow tinge) in a GVG and am able to achieve breakthrough in a single hit every time. I have only average lung capacity, so this isn’t a remarkable feat.

When properly vaporizing pure spice, there is no tar or other residue inhaled. Only vaporized DMT molecules enter your lungs.

Sublingual harmaloids followed 20 minutes later by 25-30mg vaporized spice in a single inhalation is always effective (sometimes too much).

I don’t have asthma or other lung issues, but I can say that pure vaporized DMT feels like inhaling warm air. No irritation or discomfort whatsoever.

 

[plumsmooth]

When properly vaporizing pure spice, there is no tar or other residue inhaled. Only vaporized DMT molecules enter your lungs.

This makes me question the acetate full spectrum mimosa converted to freebase quality,
vs a pure spice.
It is just that I am attached to the non toxic methods.
OR at least what seem non toxic to me.
I like Limonene, lime, vinegar and alcohol-- ipa or grain.

This full range product seems to have quite a bit of other stuff in it.
But maybe some of that is deceiving because it looks so dark and gooey.

I suggest you to take it orally, to my mind that experience is a hundred times better than the smoked one!

One of my issues seems to be the rapid on-set.
This blast off quality reminds me of like bungy jumping or something else high adrenaline.

I find that anticipation/potential anxiety, something I wonder if Changa masters have worked around, is somewhat counter productive, something that may undermine the healing potential.
The rapid de-acceleration also I find makes integration somewhat more challenging.
Also, it seems for some reason the smoking route of administration draws many users, to whom healing is not the primary objective.
Not that that has to be the only objective. There are plenty of other intentions that I am sure are valid.
But for me I feel this is the only valid one.
And even this one I recognize as a precursor to expanded outward love and healing energy projected to those around-- those including animals plants etc. Anything living...
Thanks for opening up this thread and letting me slightly high-jack toward the resolution of feelings I am facing in light of the new/old approach that I am revisiting again.

 

[PureMan]

If you haven't already tried, I suggest using a VG. I haven't once had a coughing fit from either spice or changa. Pot makes me cough like a bastard though.. even vaped.

 

[DMTripper]

I always suggest a sodium carbonate wash to clean spice. Works good for me. I get pure white crystal shards after a wash.

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

I once had a batch of changa that was contaminated with sodium carbonate. It was thick and clumpy, and I could bang little nugs against the table that were as hard as rock. Not a good sign.

Anyway, it felt like the freebase process continued on the roof of my mouth, like a middle school volcano science project.

Taking the time to smoke an ABSOLUTELY CLEAN product has never resulted in discomfort, for me. The slightest little contamination, even if it isn't TOXIC, can still hurt like hell.

Best wishes and much happiness in whatever you continue to do!

 

[mapp]

In the past SWIM made a changa batch with some non-toxic dmt acetate dissolved with acetone over some regular caapi leaves. He didn't have any problems physically with the smoke and used a gravity bong and regular pipe. He may try again with enhanced caapi leaf, but the amount of spice required is massive compared to aya/pharma and although pleasant, didn't seem even close to as rewarding.

 

[Dorge]

you never washed your spice....

Well that explains it... it has nothign to do with changa, your asthma or the spice... its the PH of your spice. Even vaporizing unwashed spice is going to hurt like hell. SWIM suggests janitorial strength ammonia bought from a janitorial supply store, freeze it before use, any water left in there just strain through a metal tea screen and then wash with what is liquid.
You will not experience any problems with it burning when added to your changa blend and there is no need to vaporize the changa either. direct flame works just fine.

 

[picatris]

Hi Dorge

you never washed your spice....

Well that explains it... it has nothign to do with changa, your asthma or the spice... its the PH of your spice. Even vaporizing unwashed spice is going to hurt like hell. SWIM suggests janitorial strength ammonia bought from a janitorial supply store, freeze it before use, any water left in there just strain through a metal tea screen and then wash with what is liquid.
You will not experience any problems with it burning when added to your changa blend and there is no need to vaporize the changa either. direct flame works just fine.

Thank you so much for your advice, and I take the opportunity to thank all the other comments and suggestions. The Nexus never cease to amaze me!

I'm searching all the info I can find about ammonia washes, sodium carbonate wash and re-crystalization. Apparently there is no consensus on what is the best procedure for removing possible impurities. Many reputable people have mentioned that ammonia washes dissolve too much spice and recommend carbonate or bicarbonate washes...

As you may imagine, My Leprechaun has decided to give changa another go. But he will do it either after a wash or through a vaporgenie (that is on its way! )

I'll report on the results!

 

[ragabr]

Highly suggest you wash, even if using the vaporgenie. *Fingers crossed*

 

[fourthripley]

you never washed your spice....

Well that explains it... it has nothign to do with changa, your asthma or the spice... its the PH of your spice. Even vaporizing unwashed spice is going to hurt like hell. SWIM suggests janitorial strength ammonia bought from a janitorial supply store, freeze it before use, any water left in there just strain through a metal tea screen and then wash with what is liquid.
You will not experience any problems with it burning when added to your changa blend and there is no need to vaporize the changa either. direct flame works just fine.

Ammonia is a gas. Store bought 'ammonia' is this gas suspended in water, ammonium hydroxide.

 

[lyserge]

As you may imagine, My Leprechaun has decided to give changa another go. But he will do it either after a wash or through a vaporgenie (that is on its way! )

I recommend trying both a VG and some sort of wash. Burnt Spice => a S.C.A.R.Y experience.

SWIM has only done two batches of Spice extraction. The first one came out clean with no washing of any sort; the first pull got a strong yield of very clean Spice. The second batch was harsh; SWIM simply recrystallized following the final step on Noman's tek. She never bothered with ammonia or carbonate washes. The resulting recrystallized Spice was slightly less in quantity (strictly due to wastefulness/carelessness) but far superior in quality. Clean Spice is very smooth, like Elf-Breath. After a sizable inhale of it you'll know what I mean 8).

 

[MelCat]

SWIM only skimmed through all of the responses but didn't see any mention of mullein added to the changa.

SWIM is a smoker and has been for the past 17 years. Before spice, his lungs were thrashed. It always felt like he had a brick on his chest.

After smoking low doses of spice, he attempted to do some healing work on his room mate.

It didn't do much for her, but it sent him into a trance and had weird visuals of a snake like totem pole that was twisting and it made him tilt his head back and sit upright while breathing really weird.

Since that experience, SWIM's lungs have been like that of a teenager who never smoked anything.

Instead of smoking Marlboro ciggs, he only smokes organic tobacco that he rolls into VERY tiny ciggs.

Anyways, back on track to the mullein... Swim has noticed that when he adds a little bit to any mixture, with or without spice, it makes the smoke many times smoother.

Instead of using just mint, add a little mullein in there too. I'm sure it will make a world of difference with the cleaner spice as others recommended.

Edit: one note I forgot, when SWIM was smoking just crystals by themselves, he got very asthmatic even after the above experience. The xtals he had were very orange so one believes that dirty spice was to blame.