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Changa on Wikipedia

Migrated topic.
Bluelight report of harmaline smoked with DPT circa 2004:

The Big & Dandy Syrian Rue & Harmala MAOI Alkaloids Thread

Welcome to the Big & Dandy Syrian Rue / Harmala MAOI alkaloids Thread Harmaline -------------- Syrian Rue seeds -------------- Harmine Q: What are MAOI's ? A: MAO or MonoAmine Oxidase is a kind of enzyme in your body that metabolizes serotonin, norepinephrine and dopamine - all...
www.bluelight.org www.bluelight.org

StagnantReaction said:
Personal advice: It's pretty much goddamn inactive without some tryptamine involved. Harmaline extract (10x) smoked works well with DPT. Harmaline freebase + weed doesn't. I'll update this as I experiment, I suppose.
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Information on smoking dmt freebase with harmine freebase circa 2000 from The Hive.


gnrm23 said:
dmt freebase is quite easily smoked (or vaporized) (dose ~= 20-50 mg) and does not need an MAOi...
if MAOi is used in conjuntion with smoking dmt (MAOi such as 150 mg harmine HCl oral or 50 mg harmine freebase smoked) the dmt high will tend to last quite a bit longer...
if the dmt is done orally (as freebase or as a salt i.e. HCl or citrate/ascorbate or acetate) along with prior or concommitant MAOi) a bit more dmt will need to be ingested (say 40-100 mg) and the duration of the expeirence is usually about 2 to 4 hours...
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dreamer042 said:
Deoxy.org article dated Feb. 1, 2001 that mentions smoking mixtures containing DMT being used in the jungle.


Normally DMT is not active when taken orally - it has to be smoked (and there are several other snuffs and smoking mixtures in jungle sorcery that do contain only DMT). But it's been found that harmaline prevents the breakdown of DMT by the digestive system and allows it to enter the bloodstream when one drinks Ayahuasca. Harmaline also extends DMT's visionary effects for up to 6 hours. So it turns out that DMT, which I had always considered to be an exotic laboratory drug, has actually been used by sorcerers in the Amazon for thousands of years.
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This one to me looks to be a false positive, dreamer. The smoking mixtures are mentioned as containing only dmt. That makes them "enhanced leaf", not "changa".
 
Google dates this one at Feb 1, 2001. Using passiflora extract to potentiate LSD and mushrooms.


for our fist experiment into MAO inhibitors, three volunteers participated (two prominent users on this bbs and myself). all of us are experienced users of various psychedelics across most possible doses; between the three of us, we would probably log a couple hundred psychedelic trips, incl. combinations of various substances.

the b-carboline containing plant we used was passion flower (see my recent posts on this sub on using passion flower in conjunction w/ marijuana and sassafras root bark). I was able to obtain passion flower in two forms at a local herb store: dried chopped plant material packaged in gel caps and 60 ml of the plant extract - which is more than enough to achieve MAO inhibition (getting the extract was a stroke of luck, for sure, it saved me the very tedious and time consuming extraction process). to obtain a smokable substance of passion flower, I mixed about 1500mg of the plant material (the content of five gelcaps) w/ 50 drops of the extract, forming a smooth emulsion. the mixture was then dried in the microwave for 3min on low power, which left us, w/ a soft, crumbly substance, hash-like in color and texture.

we rapidly took 10-15 hits, resulting in a very mild, pot-like high, which by itself surely wouldnt be worth scorching your throat and lungs w/ the harsh smoke. two of us (incl myself) then took 400-500 mics (4-5 hits) of LSD, while the other volunteer took 2.8 grs of potent stropharia (magic mushrooms).

at this point Ive only obtained a few details of the content of their repective trips from the other two participants, and I havent quite integrated the scope of my own experiences yet. Ill post some of the more relevant details to the board as they come to me; on the more
general side, all of us agree on the following:

- the dose felt subjectively three to four times more potent than it actually was, incl. a much longer lasting trip (about 10 hrs for me) than is normal for the doses we took.

- closed and open eye imagery were greatly enhanced with circular, highly detailed, bright and (for me) incredibly colorful and vivid images.

- the mental state we achieved for all of us was the most 'altered' that any of us had experienced under the influence of psychedelics. to quote one of our participants: "fuck, I sure have *never* tripped on shrooms like *this* before!!"
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That's actually a good find! No real conversation proceeded from that interestingly!

The rest of it, isn't really that relevant though.

I noticed someone updated the wikipedia page!

I think editors there are going to look at this and go, wait? What? Who drank some draino?
What has all this got to do with anything?

Have Prosopis glandulosa alkaloids been tested to contain betacarblines? Is there any human history of people using Prosopis glandulosa as an MAOI? And what has this got to do with Changa anyway? :lol:
 
dreamer042 said:
See you say that, but just saying something does not make it true. You see there is this pesky direct evidence that is quite simply not case.

I present Notes From the Underground by Gracie and Zarkov courtesy of Erowid.

Pages 43-51 Entitled "THREE B-CARBOLINE CONTAINING PLANTS AS POTENTIATORS OF SYNTHETIC DMT AND OTHER INDOLE PSYCHEDELICS" copyright August 1985, demonstrate in no uncertain terms that smoked beta-carbolines and DMT were being explored and published on long before you "invented" this combination.

PDF is attached to the post for posterity.
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This might be the very post that has led me, in a roundabout way, to reworking 'Notes from Underground', having corrected a ton of bad OCR scanning 🤩
As mentioned elsewhere, I'll be (re-)posting it very soon!
 
Just to add to this thread there was a very popular Ethnobotanical forum in Brasil from the early 2000's that survived until around 2010's that had many users sharing experiences of smoking caapi bark and leafs with dmt and extracts and lots of experimentation. sadly like with lots of the early internet lots of information gets lost. Lost media and editing digital media has been on my mind recently and it'll just get worse with AI and forums dying.

This thread is very cool and have references even predating the forum I and many brasilians remember.

The plants and usage have been in south america for many years before being 'discovered' by explorers. I think if Julian had mentinoed he helped popularize vs create 'changa' it would have been easier to accept. I've yet to find a report that isn't him on the 'soma plant'
 
Transform said:
Shaman australis currently hasn't a valid SSL certificate, btw:

["broken" link]
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i think this must be the intended link:

smokable 'ayahuasca' mix

I recently aquired a smokable 'ayahuasca' mix which is said to contain virdis, acacia and some form of MAOi. This mix is indeed hallucinagenic, and induces a typical 'trip' like state for a short time (peak 5-10 minutes) which is indicative of smoked DMT. However, what point in having a MAOi in a...
www.shaman-australis.com
 
i'm not going to dive too deep into this discussion about who invented changa, but i would like to point out if somebody cares if they invented it or not then they are probably not using it correctly
<3
 
EmeraldAtomiser said:
It cracks me up how Julian gets so many Nexian's knickers in a twist.
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This is not about getting our "knickers in a twist", even though that might be fun at times. 😁

It's about this one person claiming something, that only has themselves as the source for this claim, and they use their own commercial book as the source for this claim, resulting in a circular information loop:

"Wikipedia states that Julian Palmer is the 'inventor' of Changa" => Source => Palmers own book => "Who invented changa?" => "Julian Palmer, just check it on Wikipedia"
^ GOTO start...

And for us this claim is not about something trivial, this claim is about something we deeply care about: valid facts about the data we share on the DMT-Nexus platform.

So even though we can never be as rigorous as institutionalized scientific research, we still try to follow the scientific method where we can, you might even say it's the main foundation for the validity of the data on our DMT-Nexus platform. With this method and our continuous efforts for finding truth we forever keep improving the quality of our data, so it's only natural for us that we try to get to the bottom of this case, knickers or not.


Kind regards,

The Traveler who goes back to twisting their knickers
 
EmeraldAtomiser said:
It cracks me up how Julian gets so many Nexian's knickers in a twist.
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It goes both ways. I know for a fact the dude goes around referring to this place as“ the communist nexus” lol.

It’s easy to pick up in the fact that the guy likes to tell stories. IMO. I bought his book and respect what he had done and has to offer but I don’t believe he invented changa.
 
Jamie01 said:
It goes both ways. I know for a fact the dude goes around referring to this place as“ the communist nexus” lol.

It’s easy to pick up in the fact that the guy likes to tell stories. IMO. I bought his book and respect what he had done and has to offer but I don’t believe he invented changa
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Jamie01 said:
It goes both ways. I know for a fact the dude goes around referring to this place as“ the communist nexus” lol.

It’s easy to pick up in the fact that the guy likes to tell stories. IMO. I bought his book and respect what he had done and has to offer but I don’t believe he invented changa.
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Frankly, I'm not surprised he talks that way, as a lot of the negativity towards him on here feels over the top and unnecessary.
I've watched a lot of his content and also purchased his book, and he has an awful lot of valuable experience and knowledge to pass on. I have certainly learned a great deal from him.
Did he invent the name Changa? Was he the first to come up with the idea of making a smokable blend like this? Dunno, and frankly, I don't care. He was clearly around early in the game, and is most certainly responsible for introducing many, many people to the wonders of DMT.
I wonder if it was his somewhat relaxed attitude to these introductions is what drives his dislike on this site? The Nexus, to me, can feel somewhat puritanical, like it is the righteous keeper of all things DMT, and his more relaxed attitude does not seem to chime with this.
Personally, I am very glad there are people like him out there, not focusing so intently on possible bad outcomes. I, personally, don't want people acting like a helicopter-parent for me.

Take the USA as an analogy. Their society seems to be constantly preparing for the worst possible outcome to any situation they can think of. Look at what this has done to their collective psyche. I feel this constant focus on what possibly could happen changes the energy around this incredible molecule, and I have enough trepidation around the experience anyway, without focusing on all possible bad outcomes. I know the risk and I accept it.
 
The Traveler said:
This is not about getting our "knickers in a twist", even though that might be fun at times. 😁

It's about this one person claiming something, that only has themselves as the source for this claim, and they use their own commercial book as the source for this claim, resulting in a circular information loop:

"Wikipedia states that Julian Palmer is the 'inventor' of Changa" => Source => Palmers own book => "Who invented changa?" => "Julian Palmer, just check it on Wikipedia"
^ GOTO start...

And for us this claim is not about something trivial, this claim is about something we deeply care about: valid facts about the data we share on the DMT-Nexus platform.

So even though we can never be as rigorous as institutionalized scientific research, we still try to follow the scientific method where we can, you might even say it's the main foundation for the validity of the data on our DMT-Nexus platform. With this method and our continuous efforts for finding truth we forever keep improving the quality of our data, so it's only natural for us that we try to get to the bottom of this case, knickers or not.


Kind regards,

The Traveler who goes back to twisting their knickers
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Maybe it's time to just let it go. It really isn't important. Life is more pleasant with comfy undies.
If he was some junkie with nothing to offer, maybe I could understand this relentless pursuit of him, but he's not, he's a valuable source of knowledge, and I think you do him a disservice by constantly focusing on this.
 
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