Chemistry Contribution

[endlessness]

Welcome to the Nexus ChemicalEnthusiast!

More chemistry knowledge and experience for the community is always good



Benz, with phalaris, gramine is pretty easy to both identify and separate. I have some gramine standard and roughly tested it's solubility in some solvents.. It is insoluble in hexane, slightly in limonene, somewhat in xylene and soluble in acetone and methanol. The fumarates precipitate with FASA too.

Regarding hordenine, it seems to be reasonably safe, it is in peyote and other cactus, Im pretty sure I detected a small amount of it in mimosa also. It has been sold as nutritional supplement for supposed stimulant properties.

I`d worry more about other gramine related substances like 7-methoxy-gramine and so on, about which we have even less pharmacological (and physical properties) knowledge, and which have been detected in some phalaris samples.

 

[benzyme]

duely noted

methoxy-subbed alks lend themselves well to separation, perhaps a solvent partition method would be
more accessible for most nexians.

 

[benzyme]

I can get logP and logD values as well and I can specify the pH at which the logD value is calculated.

you can find those values on either chemicalize or chemspider.

i like that graphical interface, it looks familiar

 

[ChemicalEnthusiast]

Alright, so I ran the logD values at the pH's where the charges are -1, 0, and +1 for hordinine. pH 6.5, 9.7, 12.5 respectively.

Here are the results:

pH: logD Hordenine logD Gramine
6.5 -0.77 -0.68
9.7 1.65 1.88
12.5 -0.05 2.01

These results would indicate that at pH 12.5 gramine is far more soluble (~100 times) in NP solvents compared to hordenine. This makes sense because the charge of hordenine at pH 12.5 is -1 and the charge of gramine at pH 12.5 is 0. Obviously this is an estimate and doesn't apply to all NP solvents but I think it would be worth a try to separate before performing IEX. Hope this helps.

 

[ChemicalEnthusiast]

Are all of those values found on chemicalize or chemspider? I thought they only put out literature values, not predicted values. Not sure though to be honest.

 

[ChemicalEnthusiast]

Looks like you can't specify the pH for the logD values on chemicalize or chemspider. With just a quick look. Also, I can change the ionic strength of the solution with the software I have. Varying the concentrations of Cl- and Na+ ions.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Would you mind sharing the name of the software you are using?

Good to have you here

 

[benzyme]

looks like Marvin Beans, particularly Sketch. it has pKa/pI calculation functions.

 

[ChemicalEnthusiast]

looks like Marvin Beans, particularly Sketch. it has pKa/pI calculation functions.

Yup, that was marvin sketch with the calculator plugins (I have an academic license).

 

[SnozzleBerry]

looks like Marvin Beans, particularly Sketch. it has pKa/pI calculation functions.

Yup, that was marvin sketch with the calculator plugins (I have an academic license).

Oh cool, I actually have that on an old computer, courtesy of some pointers from benz...minus the calculator of course

I've never had time to sit down and really dive into it. Glad there are people with much better working knowledge than I. Looking forward to your collaborations and contributions!