• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Chocolate

Migrated topic.
SpiceGirl

SpiceGirl

Rising Star
I've read before that chocolate did some neat things in the brain and whatnot, but while surfing Wikipedia today on the Phenethylamine page I noticed this section:

"Chocolate theory of love

In the early 1980s, researcher Michael Liebowitz, author of the popular 1983 book The Chemistry of Love, remarked to reporters that "chocolate is loaded with PEA." This became the focus for an article in The New York Times, which was then taken up by the wire services, then by magazine free-lancers, and evolved into the now-eponymous "chocolate theory of love."[12] However, as noted earlier, phenethylamine is rapidly metabolized by the enzyme MAO-B, preventing significant concentrations from reaching the brain, thus contributing no perceptible psychoactive effect without the use of an MAOI (monoamine oxidase inhibitor)."


Anyway, I don't see the answer on the page, but my questions are: If I took one of our lovely natural MAOIs,

A) would chocolate still be safe to consume and
B) does anyone have any idea on the possible effects?
 
a) depends if it's a reversible or irreversible MAOI
b) hypertension

chocolate isn't loaded with phenethylamine, per se, it's present in trace amounts. the major constituents of chocolate are actually serotonin and theobromine. the latter has the most activity, as serotonin doesn't cross the BBB.
it's also been said that chocolate has anandamide, though this has also been disputed; besides, anandamide has a very short half-life, it's rapidly metabolized.
 
Many people have used cocoa to potentiate ayahuasca.

SWIM cannot eat chocolate candy without getting nausea when using a harmala type MAOI (harmine, harmaline, THH). Other than the nausea, he didn’t notice any negative effects.

SWIM often uses coffee with harmalas with no noticeable negative interactions. I don’t know why chocolate candy causes him to get nausea while on harmala type MAOIs. It’s the only food that does.
 
Thank you very much, awesome replies! So informative. I never thought of coffee during one of these things, was even reading some bit about coffee being able to activate genes (maybe it wasn't genes but something else, but memory really wants me to put genes so there goes, can dig for article if someone would like) just by the aroma. I'm sure that's a pretty salty statement though, for what it's worth.

Glad to put that curiosity to rest, didn't want to be the cat to get killed by it :) I think I will just stick the rue and hostilis, well, if I ever moved to a country that would allow such things. A girl can dream can't she?
 
There is quite a bit of debate on chocolate (more specifically Cacao beans) the primary ingredient in chocolate. I always keep a pound or so of "Raw Organic Cacao Powder" in my fridge. In it's RAW form it is very high in most of the alks that the others have stated above. As soon as it's roasted, or even heated it begins to lose much of its alkaloids though.

I can tell you from first hand experience that it is definitely a potentiator of triptamines, especially with mushrooms. I have not tried it with harmalas however. I think that could be risky given the number of alkaloids contained in raw Cocao.
 
Is there that much difference in alkaloid contents of raw cocoa? I have raw cocoa nibs at home, and I haven't really noticed much from them. I like chewing them. I like the taste.
 
Chocalate has been found to have some beta carboline compounds in it which may have MAOI activity or other pharmacological activity. Interestingly the compounds are tetrahydro-beta carbolines. There are also a variety of other compounds including cannabinoids (fatty acid endo-cannabinoid like compounds), PEA, theobromine, caffeine.... and more... Chocolate is definitely psychoactive for me. I get mild euphoria mood enhancement when drink hot chocolate drink (real hot chocolate w. real cocoa powder). It is very likely that native americans took cvhocalate with hallucinogens. I believe it is even documented. Some tribes would even use cacao beans as currency.

I see no reason why heating chocolate would destroy any of the alkaloids or active components. Nor have I heard anything like that in the literature.

You like the nibbs ron? They are so bitter and waxy-grainy texture.... to each his own....
 
Oh wow, so am I getting this right? Chocolate, or does it have to only be the straight cocoa bean, can be a potentiator for just mushrooms or DMT as well? Or was that when mixing an MAOI with just chocolate? Or all 3? Sorry for the many questions, just want to be sure I'm reading this all right - so much info! I'm learning so much about chocolate, which I lurrrve!

Thanks guys, keep it coming - way more than I expected!
 
SWIM has found that theobromine alters the mental aspect of the DMT experience but decreases the visuals at 150mg.

But people report that chocolate does potentiate the effects. SWIM would be interested in trying this out. Wonder about mushroom chocolate bars?
 
bufoman said:
Chocolate is definitely psychoactive for me. I get mild euphoria mood enhancement when drink hot chocolate drink (real hot chocolate w. real cocoa powder).
Click to expand...

Chocolate does do something to me if I eat a ton of it. For example, chocolate milk made with 3 big tablespoons of Hershey's chocolate syrup is effective. But it's so mild. I feel warm, and slightly tingly for about 2 hours or so, that's about it. I get no mood lift from it.

bufoman said:
It is very likely that native americans took cvhocalate with hallucinogens. I believe it is even documented. Some tribes would even use cacao beans as currency.
Click to expand...

Yes, I've seen it documented many times where a drink made from cocoa and honey was drunk before taking magic mushrooms as well as a few other psychoactive plants.

bufoman said:
I see no reason why heating chocolate would destroy any of the alkaloids or active components. Nor have I heard anything like that in the literature.

You like the nibbs ron? They are so bitter and waxy-grainy texture.... to each his own....
Click to expand...

I like the raw nibs. I never thought I would. I decided to buy some after reading several reports of others on this forum using them and claiming them to be more effective than processed cocoa. The taste is bitter, almost like dark chocolate, or strong unsweetened coffee. I like it as is without any sweetener. My kids can't stand them plain, but they do like them if covered in corn syrup and then sprinkled with sugar.
 
I make a hot chocolate drink with Dark chocolate powder. A few tables spoons of that, some hot water, vanilla extract and some sugar. This is definitely mildly psychoactive. Similar to coffee but distinctive. chocolate SYRUP... I wonder how much chocolate is even in that... try buying cocao powder. Herseys special dark is good. It is also great mixed with coffee to make mochas. That is a great mix and will def wake you up....

The nibs are very bitter. I like dark chocolate. Even up to 80% but anything more than that is just to much for me. I had a sampler pack of different bars of chocolate that was grown and produced in different countries. it was so interesting to try all of the different bars. They really were all unique. Some of the 70% ones were very bitter while others were not.
 
bufoman said:
SWIM has found that theobromine alters the mental aspect of the DMT experience but decreases the visuals at 150mg.

But people report that chocolate does potentiate the effects. SWIM would be interested in trying this out. Wonder about mushroom chocolate bars?
Click to expand...



CHOCO-MUSHIE BARS !!! YUUUUMMMMmmmmmmmm! Sounds like it's time for someone to find some fungus
 
bufoman said:
They are very bitter. I like dark chocolate. Even up to 80% but anything more than that is just to much for me. I had a sampler pack of different bars of chocolate that was grown and produced in different countries. it was so interesting to try all of the different bars. They really were all unique. Some of the 70% ones were very bitter while others were not.
Click to expand...

Nibs are bitter but they have their distinctive taste and texture.
They are not bitter in nasty way it`s enjoyable as soon as one get into.All of us here loving them, ILPT all parots......... even myself
It`s a good apprentice training to stand some stronger bitterness from proper stuff, lol

It`s fairly energizing but it missing that caffeine `kick` which only coffee, yerba mate or guarana can give.

It gives one a bit of euphoria(think some endorfines are released) it`s very slightly psychedelic(if enough is ingested)

However this could be prolonged and potentiated by using with harmalas (preferably harmine)

69ron said:
Many people have used cocoa to potentiate ayahuasca.

SWIM cannot eat chocolate candy without getting nausea when using a harmala type MAOI (harmine, harmaline, THH). Other than the nausea, he didn’t notice any negative effects.

SWIM often uses coffee with harmalas with no noticeable negative interactions. I don’t know why chocolate candy causes him to get nausea while on harmala type MAOIs. It’s the only food that does.
Click to expand...

Really ? :surprised Here is it other way round...

ILPT is sick from instant coffee and harmalas but happy with cacao and harmalas 8)

Need to say, is best to avoid sugar.Saccharose(sucrose) has many side effects, maybe that`s why is swim sick. sugars with shorter chain(glucose, fructose)are not as bad...
Just thinking about drinking some over sweetened chocolate syrup(without harmalas)making us sick brrrr....:x



...Anyway no need to be pussy, bitterness is good for ya
 
bufoman said:
I see no reason why heating chocolate would destroy any of the alkaloids or active components. Nor have I heard anything like that in the literature.
Click to expand...

I have no scientific proof of this, but was advised by Maya Ethnos that cacao needs to be raw and uncooked in any way to gain it's full benefits and potency. Maya Ethno has always been a wise resource for me, so I'm just going off of that. Even lightly roasted nibs are less effective than the raw nibs (according to what I've been told).

To me it makes sense. You cook something and the goodies start to cook out. i.e. boiling alcohol, heat drying mushies, etc. Heat destroys alks. generally speaking.

Peace
-idt
 
richierich_931 said:
CHOCO-MUSHIE BARS !!! YUUUUMMMMmmmmmmmm! Sounds like it's time for someone to find some fungus
Click to expand...

Heeheeheeeeee! I just happen to know SWIM that has a choco-fungi bar in his freezer. This SWIM dude was saving it for a special occasion, because the last time he ate one he saw things he never though possible from fungi. But you had to go and bring it up richierich, now SWIM is at the convergence of two paths... Oh, what ever should SWIM do? :twisted:
 
Wow, so much info! And it seems there's a pretty wide spectrum with people's body's responses too. Thanks everyone, definitely gonna try this out sometime soon in some combination. I need to see if my friend overseas has tried any syrian rue extracts yet.. she's afraid of the mess it will be filtering but is excited to be able to work with more spirits!

Or I might just give in to the temptation and try a choco-mushie bar - soooo good sounding!!
 
I see no reason why heating chocolate would destroy any of the alkaloids or active components. Nor have I heard anything like that in the literature.
Click to expand...

I have always went along with this idea as well & it makes sense, I mean if you heat your mimosa bark solution above 140-160F degrees during an extraction, you'll lose a good amount of the DMT alkaloids to vaporization from the excessive heat. Same for the Cocoa alkaloids I would guess.
Could be something else causing it all together, but I have definitely heard of heat destroying a good amount of the Cocoa alks as well.

Ever since I received a free sample of powdered, Raw Cocoa (Theobromine) from Maya, I have kept some in the house too.
Although mainly just for adding to things like yogurt & milk etc...
I like the subtle "good feeling" it gives me. Like a natural Prozac, but not so obvious, I just feel...good.:d

Have not really tried it as a potentiator for DMT or other psychedelics, just seems you need to ingest so much of it to get these effects. Might have to give that a try sometime soon though.


WS
 
300mg theobromine 1 hour before consuming my pharmahuasca at 66% of usual dose harmala and 50% of a DMT dose has given me some pretty good effects. This doseage seems weaker than my full pharma dose, and I haven't tried higher out of cautiousness. However if I redose after the peak, when it comes back on, it's a lot more like vapourised DMT than usual. All those organic creatures and patterns seem to subside and a hyperspace-like environment seems to take hold. Some reason I never realise when I need to pee when I do this. Haven't had any moist accidents yet, but it's like it's so over-whelming I'm not as conscious of any preasure build-up down below.

Also the nausea seems to be reduced immensley.

I would like to try this with cacoa nibs as what I'm using is 99.5% synthetic theobromine and it's the nastiest most bitter thing. Even in a nice drink it's horrible.

Never been a dark chocolate fan though.
 
I think heat will mainly destroy active enzymes in the chocolate as oppose to alkaloids.

'Raw' cocoa powder must be heated slightly to separate it from the cocoa butter.

I have experienced raw chocolate effects for definite on a few occasions...the strongest sprinkled on some really good vanilla ice cream with vanilla bits in...I think the Aztecs or the Maya liked their chocolate with vanilla (and spices), among other things, depending on the recipe.

The Aztecs also commonly served their mushrooms in a chocolate broth. I have definitely experienced psychoactive effects from eating a little dark chocolate on Syrian Rue and mushrooms...interestingly before even swallowing it. Subtle but definitely present...waves of warm energy. Pleasant, but subtle...and definitely interesting, might be worthy of further experimentation...

I read quite an interesting experience report a while back about someone who combined cocoa with spices in a hot drink, and the two had an amazing synergy...the spices getting the blood flowing a bit faster so as to increase rate of absorption of the chocolate alkaloids.
 
Back
Top Bottom