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Coffee and Syrian Rue

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RhythmSpring

Esteemed member
I know I certainly shouldn't drink both together, but what if I am drinking small amounts of coffee in the morning and early afternoon, and then throwing a few Rue seeds into my food in the evening? Am I treading dangerous waters? What's the worst that could happen?

Has anyone here had bad interactions from drinking coffee and taking harmalas in the same day?

FWIW, I have always been super sensitive to caffeine, so I am drinking no more than 1/3cup (American) at a time.
 
I have drunk very strong green tea with a high caffeine content when i was still experiencing the effects of rue more than once, and never had any negative interaction at all.
 
No negative interactions as far as i know/have experienced. I've regularly consumed Coffee/Caffeine while also taking Harmalas. The only thing i can see to watch out for would simply be Caffeine dosage, because Harmalas inhibit CYP1A2 and can require Caffeine dosage to be lowered by half down to a quarter if consumed alongside the Harmalas' active CYP1A2 inhibition, which is most noticeable either when you first take the Harmalas or about 6 to 8 to 10 hours into the Harmalas, so if you take Caffeine at the same time as Harmalas, or say 6 to 8 to 10 hours into the Harmalas, Caffeine will likely be potentiated if you catch the CYP1A2 inhibition right, and so dosage will need to be reduced. Same thing applies to any CYP1A2 or CYP2D6 substrate though. Other than that, no problemo.
 
I've been taking caapi tea at around 300 mg harmalas for a few months now with an espresso a few times a day and have not had negative effects. The coffee is amplified but have like the effects. The caffeine rush is extended and a nice happy mental state has always been the case. I also tried a 'HIGH' dose of over a gram harmalas from caapi tea dose with my espresso and no noticeable negative effects. The high was pretty interesting but not 'worth' it just pure harmala high.
 
It seems like we are all a bit different :) I've written about one of my experiences of coffee and Rue here . Also some others writing about is in that thread.
 
I have had mild discomfort with drinking cacao/coffee the morning after using harmala - (2.5g brewed tea) or consuming the harmala in the evening after having coffee in the morning. stomach discomfort and a mil dheadache.

I think I cam quite sensitive to the harmalas tho. I don't think it's dangerous, at least in lower doses, and I also thing there will be variances from one person to the next.

I would start with a very low dose and pay attention to your body's reaction.
 
Coffee contains small quantities of beta carbolines as well. Harman and norharman.

And also a substance called chlorogenic acid that speeds up metabolism and is therefore used sometimes by people who want to lose weight.

And then it contains some tyramine as well. On top of that there are some tyramine related compounds in coffee that, like tyramine, can trigger migraine in people who're sensitive to these substances.

So maybe it wasn't just the caffeine that contributed to those unpleasant experiences.
 
Yes, coffee is a potent brew. With the ongoing climate changes and pests on coffee worldwide its not hard to guess that coffee will be a luxury in the future, as it once were. Wonder it here is something similar in effects and qualities. Well tea in some ways (Pu'er tea perhaps?) or mushroom brews (Chaga is my bet). Actually dark roasted rue seeds are in the same neighborhood as coffee taste vise. But that is not compared to a good cup of coffee :)

But back to the original question. I've had a big cup of coffee 6-8h before strong Rue 'tea' many times without any issues.
 
Thanks everyone for your input!

Well, recently I drunk coffee the morning after some rue, and later that day I ended up with a SPLITTING headache and a fever.

But, it turned out to be Covid-19, hah!

So, the jury is still out for ME (I know very well everyone is different and I'm weirdly sensitive to some things), but it is encouraging to hear your experiences.
 
Sometimes I've observed the apparent effect that a rue dose will "re-awaken" a previous dose of caffeine/coffee. If you've had an ongoing caffeinated beverage habit there will be a background level of caffeine that persists between doses. Some of this will be bound up at various essentially [centrally] inactive sites, including metabolic enzymes.

So, one hypothesis - which I may have mentioned somewhere before - is that harmala alkaloids, sharing some metabolic pathways with caffeine, could increase plasma caffeine concentration via this (displacement) route. This may then result in some combination of central and cardiovascular stimulation. Again , just something I've observed in my own physiology with subsequent contemplation, ymmv and I could be a poor deluded fool.

Green tea can have a strong cardiovascular effect hours down the line upon addition of harmalas, too. [Green tea polyphenols are of course well-known as metabolic modulators.]
 
I cannot combine it, but I am no regular coffee drinker if that ever matters.
Keeping coffee away 2 to 3 hours before and after harmalas then it's less an issue if any.
Taking it together is not a nice ride for me. A friend has same conclusions. But I read it's not universally so.
 
Yeah waiting 2 to 3 hours before or after Harmalas to take Caffeine let's you miss the CYP1A2 inhibition and thus potentiation of Caffeine, so that a normal dosage gets absorbed rather than taking it when CYP1A2 is inhibited which would make even a few sips of a Caffeinated soda feel nearly equal to a few cups or so of strong Coffee. Harmalas potentiate CYP1A2 and CYP2D6 substrates pretty strongly, so Caffeine on top of CYP1A2 inhibition is definitely not to be taken lightly as it can be easy to overdo it on the Caffeine, so i would highly recommend people to cut their Caffeine dosage in half, possibly down to a quarter, of what they'd usually consume if taking it alongside Harmalas (either at the same time as the Harmalas for the first wave of CYP1A2 inhibition, or 4 to 6 to 8 to 10 hours into Harmalas, depending on Harmala dosage, when the second phase of CYP1A2 inhibition starts).
 
Personally, with low doses of syrian rue tea, coffee feels like a little stronger coffee, but I haven't experienced problems I didn't know from just simply drinking coffee. Dosage is key as with everything,
 
I frequently take modest doses of Peganum and B. caapi and often drink green tea at the same time and have not noticed any excess stimulation.
 
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