• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Combatting LSD/LSA/LSH Vasoconstriction

Migrated topic.
sleepermustawaken

sleepermustawaken

Rising Star
So I've looked around for accessible vasodilators to help relieve the vasoconstriction caused by large doses of LSA/LSD. Things like yohimbe, Kratom, Cayenne Pepper, Cannabis, Benzodiazapines, Dark Chocolate, Garlic Cloves, etc keep on popping up in my searches but they arent exactly what Im looking for, although I know garlic and essential lemon oil reduce nausea from LSA and mushrooms. If you are looking for natural alternatives then 69ron made a great thread on it here.

Now I know that its never a particularly good idea to mix drugs that may cause potential interactions, but I feel that its at least worth looking into.

Clonidine
- a sympatholytic medication used to treat medical conditions, such as high blood pressure
- It is classified as a centrally acting α2 adrenergic agonist
- It can alleviate opioid withdrawal symptoms by reducing the sympathetic nervous system response such as tachycardia and hypertension, as well as reducing sweating, hot and cold flushes, and general restlessness.
- Can be used to treat sleeping disturbances from MAOI moclobemide.
- It selectively stimulates receptors in the brain that monitor catecholamine levels in the blood. These receptors close a negative feedback loop that begins with descending sympathetic nerves from the brain that control the production of catecholamines in the adrenal medulla. By fooling the brain into believing that catecholamine levels are higher than they really are, clonidine causes the brain to reduce its signals to the adrenal medulla, which in turn lowers catecholamine production and blood levels.

Phentolamine
- It is a reversible, nonselective alpha-adrenergic antagonist.
- Its primary action is vasodilation due to α1 blockade.
- It also can lead to reflex tachycardia because of hypotension and α2 inhibition, which increases sympathetic tone.
- The primary application for phentolamine is for the control of hypertensive emergencies
- It also has usefulness in the treatment of cocaine induced hypertension, where one would generally avoid beta blockers and where calcium channel blockers are not effective

Tolazoline
- It is a non-selective competitive α-adrenergic receptor antagonist.
- It is a vasodilator that is used to treat spasms of peripheral blood vessels.
- It has also been used successfully as an antidote to reverse the severe peripheral vasoconstriction which can occur as a result of overdose with certain 5-HT2A agonist drugs such as LSD, DOB and Bromodragonfly.
 
Vasoconstriction for me is the most unpleasant, and most significant unwanted side-effect of lysergamide trips.
Tripping in pain has such a negative effect on the psyche.:thumb_dow

********

Usually about 2/3rds of the way through an experience, I get agonising leg cramps.
My veins throb / sting and I end up unable to walk very well due to the pain.
It happens whether out dancing / partying , or just in a home-based setting.

My last experience was at home with 250ug AL-LAD, and I was in agony 24hours
after the event, not something I would wish on anyone.
I probably should have sought medical attention on that occasion.

I welcome any OTC remedies that differ from aspirin and alcohol, and would be
interested in anyone's experience with the above substances or others that
might take the "sting" out of the experience...

I mean tripping is psychologically hard enough right :)
Cheers O.P
 
BeatHermit said:
I welcome any OTC remedies that differ from aspirin and alcohol, and would be
interested in anyone's experience with the above substances or others that
might take the "sting" out of the experience...
Click to expand...

I have tried Clonidine (mentioned above) and found it worked as a vasodiolater. I took a little more than the recomended dose to see it's full effects and woke up in the middle of the night and could bearly feel my heartbeat and my breathing was very shallow. If you stuck to the desired dose though it would be an absolutely positive helper with your lysergamide trips, it will also make you sleep like a pancake and you will feel very relaxed (ooze) into the next day and a tiny little bit the day after that. Just a quick trip to the doc and it's yours. :thumb_up:
 
Vascodialators such as nitroglycerin or acetylsalicylic acid should work. I favor transdermal nitroglycerin as it's very rapid. It can be found as a heart medication.
 
Thanks - Nitroglycerin looks like a good option.
I have seen a nasal spray which is supposed to give quick-relief.

Sounds like there is hope :)
 
Does this mean poppers would also work? :?

Also, isosorbide mononitrate.

It maybe worth mentioning the potentially lethal interaction of organic nitrate vasodilators with Viagra-type drugs... so don't mix them!

GTN used together with vasodilators that combat erectile dysfunction, such as Viagra, Cialis, or Levitra can cause severe hypotension, circulatory collapse, and death.
Click to expand...
Here
*GTN = glyceryltrinitrate, aka nitroglycerin.
 
4-5 grams of l-arginine taken a half hour before dosing any vasoconstrictive substaces.

Very potent semi-essential amino acid and precursor for vasodiolation/production of nitric oxide. Often used in weightlifting so more nutrients/blood are shuttled to the various muscles.

It really works wonders. Very noticeable effects and it's something i've always used and taken to combat vasoconstriction. It nearly eliminates it.
 
Hi again

Amyls/Poppers have never worked to combat vasoconstriction from lysergammides for me :x
Tend to give you red-face and then a headache !

I will look more into L_arginine, and metabolic deficiencies surrounding diet (etc.) in this area could be of value - thanks. :thumb_up:

It does sound a worthwhile pre-dose supplement regardless...just maybe not a 4-5g dose though.

Taking that much to counteract a few hundred micrograms lysergamide seems inefficient /counterintuitive, but who knows ?
I just prefer the idea of a targeted, efficient (and safe) pharmaceutical option when in trouble.

If anyone has medical training or experience, I'd love to understand more - cheers all​
 
Nitroglycerin can be ruled out because it's duration of action in measured in minutes. Something that works for hours would be much preferred, given the duration of lysergamides.

I'm currently evaluating ginkgo and l-arginine for mescaline-induced vasoconstriction, something I tend to be prone to. Will post comments when I reach some conclusions.
 
Not sure if anyone has ever tried this as a response to LSD Vasoconstriction. But according to this sturdy Linus Pauling Study 730mg a day dose of magnesium resulted in a 12% improvement in flow-mediated vasodilation in a study with patients who had coronary artery disease. After doing some reading on different forums it seems like some people have really severe vasoconstriction and others seem to have none at all, I wonder if it could be related to low magnesium levels to begin with.

I personally experience almost no pain during LSD trips, otherwise I would try it as a supplement myself, I feel like taking the supplement once a day for 2-3 days before hand might alleviate some of the pain.

Just a thought.

-Paulo
 
Try eating a Beet or drinking Beet juice.
Natural Vasodilator, works very well.

Maybe a short mile jog just to open the airways & arteries and get some endorphins flowing?
Hot bath/sauna?
Fish Oil daily leading up to the trip?
 
lsDxMdmaddicThc said:
Try eating a Beet or drinking Beet juice.
Natural Vasodilator, works very well.

Maybe a short mile jog just to open the airways & arteries and get some endorphins flowing?
Hot bath/sauna?
Fish Oil daily leading up to the trip?
Click to expand...
This is stuff that's good to do anyhow, ergolines or no ergolines 8) I love beetroot juice - thanks for the tip... :thumb_up:
 
This needs to researched more extensively. Vasoconstrictions are annoying.

Here are the LSD receptor affinities, the vasoconstriction is probably triggered thru the adrenergic receptors.

LSDaffinities.GIF


[deleted, probably not safe]. Drugbank lists 47 vasodilator agents: http://www.drugbank.ca/mesh/vasodilator-agents
 
Why not simply do an extraction using the many tek's available?
You will have no poisonous reactions, because you remove all the poisons causing the constriction in your extraction.

It just seems dangerous and potentially wrong-headed to put another drug on top of your LSA to mask/counteract the symptom you're targeting. You can't properly measure the impact of the band-aid drug on the problem, because you're doing it outside medical consultation.


It just seems far safer to remove the chemicals you don't want instead of doubling up opposing drugs to hopefully cancel out toxins that you don't have any way of measuring.
 
coAsTal said:
Why not simply do an extraction using the many tek's available?

You will have no poisonous reactions, because you remove all the poisons causing the constriction in your extraction.

It just seems dangerous and potentially wrong-headed to put another drug on top of your LSA to mask/counteract the symptom you're targeting. You can't properly measure the impact of the band-aid drug on the problem, because you're doing it outside medical consultation.

It just seems far safer to remove the chemicals you don't want instead of doubling up opposing drugs to hopefully cancel out toxins that you don't have any way of measuring.
Click to expand...

Hi , I would ask you to re-read the thread.

I do not disagree with some of your advice in general, but we are not talking about "dirty" home extracts of LSA / LSD etc.. You cannot fix LSD with a TEK for example :?

Ergonline substances produce vasoconstriction effects - fullstop.

It's nothing to do with Ergot poisoning, or so-called toxins, it's simply just a side-effect of these substances...
This is why people can get headches / blood pressure issues and other discomfort while on ergolines.

A lot of people do not feel significant problems from these but this is why we are discussing over-the-counter medications or other natural aids for those more susceptible.

Thanks anyway
 
Scarey that the synthetics have predominate this thread. There are much easier and safer ways to combat this symptom, then pharmas....

I usually go with....a bunch of Traditional Chinese Medicine Super Tonics and a few other herbs/superfoods...

TCM: ginseng, american ginseng, ho shou wu, and astragalus

Then a few cacaos nibs, cayenne pepper, black pepper, and HIBISCUS iced tea SOOO REFRESHING at rough part of phen's comedown.

This keeps is manageable and all these things safe to administer as needed in generous amounts. IF the discomfort is bringing you to use actual DRUGS with your sacraments, re-assess what the substances are teaching you....I doubt it is to seek comfort while throwing preservation of the body into the hands of pharmaceuticals.

Protect your body and don't try to avoid EVERY negative symptoms of tripping...It is part of the ordeal experience of working with these substances. Mitigating/easing/curing symptoms with safe natural methods is one thing, trying to avoid them with synthetics seems to be a losing game.
 
No Knowing said:
Scarey that the synthetics have predominate this thread. There are much easier and safer ways to combat this symptom, then pharmas....

I usually go with....a bunch of Traditional Chinese Medicine Super Tonics and a few other herbs/superfoods...

TCM: ginseng, american ginseng, ho shou wu, and astragalus

Then a few cacaos nibs, cayenne pepper, black pepper, and HIBISCUS iced tea SOOO REFRESHING at rough part of phen's comedown.

This keeps is manageable and all these things safe to administer as needed in generous amounts. IF the discomfort is bringing you to use actual DRUGS with your sacraments, re-assess what the substances are teaching you....I doubt it is to seek comfort while throwing preservation of the body into the hands of pharmaceuticals.

Protect your body and don't try to avoid EVERY negative symptoms of tripping...It is part of the ordeal experience of working with these substances. Mitigating/easing/curing symptoms with safe natural methods is one thing, trying to avoid them with synthetics seems to be a losing game.
Click to expand...

Not sure how synthetics are "scary" , LSD is synthetic for example.
We are looking for simple solutions, as it is a simple medical side-effect.

RE: F. multiflora heshouwu) a simple wikipedia search tells me that
it is hepatoxic - that's scarier my friend. I'd stay away from that.

The other natural ingredients you propose sound nice, but are not medicines.
While I admire a nice smoothie while tripping, this is not what we are
discussing in this thread really,

Like the last poster you kind of missed the point.

Efficacy over bullshit everytime.

+ Plants tell me to use my intelligence in order to preserve it.

+ Humanity is always a losing game - we die ,
even with significant medical intervention, at all stages.
The world lives on, however.
 
Back
Top Bottom