Coming off suboxone

[BundleflowerPower]

I've taken suboxone since 2008. I started taking 36 mg per day per doctors instructions. It's taken me this long to wean down to the amount I was taking before I stopped, which was ~0.5 mg. yesterday was my last day. I've tried multiple times to get clean, but this time there's a new factor at work. Now between my entheogenic experience and someone I met, I now know what selfless love feels like, and the love of unity with the universe, and this is why I can do it, because love is a more powerful force than fear. My heart chakra is open, and I think this feeling in my heart can replace and overpower the withdrawals. Plus I went to my doctor and asked for help, he gave me clonadine and clonopine to take the edge off, and I have access to Kratom as well.
If this doesn't work I'll take iboga, but I feel like I should try, this person I mentioned reminded me of the power of trying, which led to an amazing work opportunity.

So I'll let yall know how this goes. I'm at work now and I'm feeling fairly good. I intend to show others that this can be done, as almost all of my old friends take subs, and if I can do it, I'll be the first out of all of us, which would be fitting, as I was the first to switch from pills to subs. doctors give people much more suboxone than anyone needs, 2 mg should be enough for any opiate addiction imo, subs are powerful, even ibogaine can't knock it off the receptors.

I should say that I don't hate suboxone, but it's a tool, not a cure. When I was taking pills every 4 hours, and spending my whole paycheck on them, it did break me of that mindset, and helped me quite a bit. But now it's time to move on, the tool has outilived it's usefulness.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

One question I have is if there's any interaction between clonadine and caapi or rue? I'd like to drink ayahuasca if it gets too bad, and I have the materials for the traditional brew, but with chaliponga instead of chacruna.

 

[corpus callosum]

One question I have is if there's any interaction between clonadine and caapi or rue? I'd like to drink ayahuasca if it gets too bad, and I have the materials for the traditional brew, but with chaliponga instead of chacruna.

I would avoid combining clonidine with harmala alkaloids as there is an increased risk of provoking a significant bradycardia (slowing of the pulse rate) with knock-on effects on the blood pressure.

Best of luck in leaving the subs behind; you may be facing a few weeks to months of emptiness and torpor but life will be much more rewarding once you traverse this.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

Thanks

Anyway, I'm off of work, the clonadine really helped and it wasn't bad. And I have the perfect job for this, I'm usually hanging from the side of a high rise building on a window washing platform, so my mind is occupied. I can't be moping and feeling sorry for myself, because any lapse in concentration can get me or someone else killed.

I have an amazing job, and while luck and sycronicity is in my favor, and I have love in my heart, I'm going to leverage it to get myself free.

The reason I posted this thread here, is because I've seen how this community rallies around its own in their time of need, when someone has a problem. I can't think of a better support group. Plus you all understand the things that I understand, you've had the transformative experience that I have, so you understand me better than most people ever could.

And it seems quite amazing how far I've come so fast, and how much I've learned about the nature of reality, etc while still on suboxone. I just feel as if I can't reach my full potential, that is, I can't realize my destiny stuck taking subs. And it seems to me, that even though I have this divine Sufi sort of love burning in my heart, I just know that it can be much more powerful once I'm no longer numbed out.

I think nothing is a coincidence, and many things and people have happened in my life recently that have led to this, I'm totally ready to stick it out, perhaps take ibogaine if that turns out to be a possibility.

And as well as all that, I simply want to show others that it is possible to achieve, I know tons of people on subs who are resigned to the thought of never jumping off them. In fact no one I know has ever stopped without switching to a short acting opiate. I'm done with opiates, with the exception of Kratom, as it really helps me with the symptoms.

So thanks in advance for listening

 

[corpus callosum]

Thanks, so how long should I wait between clonadine and aya? I've only taken 2 of them so far.

If clonidine is used on a daily basis for a few weeks then its recommended to taper the dose over 3-4 days to zero to reduce the risk of certain effects including rebound hypertension. Assuming normal renal function then the elimination half-life can be upto about 25 hours. Being completely off clonidine for 4-5 days should be okay to consider using harmala alkaloids.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

Thanks corpus.

You know I'm on my way to work, and since I'm not dreading being sick like usual, I've noticed that everything seems brighter and more alive, like the days after drinking aya. I feel a bit rough, but I think it's going to be a good day.

Btw, another reason I made this thread, is because I've seen so many such threads online and almost none are successful. I want to change that, and the nexus is the perfect place for it.

Update.

Works almost over, it's so hot today, that I ended up taking about 0.2 mg, though I still feel like shit. I had one tiny sliver lelt when I quit. I'm going to be honest.

I got through the day, I'm hanging with one of my few true friends, a mushroom lover btw. We got a fire going, smoked some cannabis and I'm being attacked by flying insects. Can't complain.

One thing I noticed last night, is that clonadine really does help. I usually get RLS quite bad. it wasn't much of an issue last night.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

Today was a good day. A bit of Kratom has kept me okay. I worked in the heat, accomplished an enormous amount of work, and feel quite good about that. Ready for tomorrow.

 

[Continuum]

Hi BFP! Just want to tell you good luck and you got this.

I went through methadone treatment about 5 years ago myself, getting off after about 18 months on and 15 years of opiate addiction before, and it Can be done. Sending you positive energy and moral support from the peanut gallery.

The whole world opens up after breaking free. 8)

 

[SpartanII]

Good stuff here: Quitting opiates/addictive substances - Tips, strategies, complementary tools - Health & Safety - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I used kratom, magnesium, and nigella sativa (black seed oil) to wean myself off poppy seed tea, which is a long-acting opiate mixture, so I can relate.

IME, the most challenging part was balancing my life after addiction, learning how to be happy without a crutch.

I've quit many times before that, and one thing I learned was that it's really easy to replace one addiction with another. Be careful with the kratom and the cannabis, both can be addictive in their own ways.

Another thing I learned was that it really helps to have a healthy diet both during the withdrawal/detoxing stage and during the PAWS stage. It minimized withdrawal symptoms, gave me energy and better sleep, and helped me feel physically, mentally, and emotionally more balanced.

Light exercise (swimming, stretching, jogging), Tai Chi and Chi Gong are also very healing.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

Hi BFP! Just want to tell you good luck and you got this.

I went through methadone treatment about 5 years ago myself, getting off after about 18 months on and 15 years of opiate addiction before, and it Can be done. Sending you positive energy and moral support from the peanut gallery.

The whole world opens up after breaking free. 8)

Thanks, that means a lot, you're an amazing friend. And yeah, I do have it, I have to get myself right, there's someone I love and I want to give to her, not be a drain in any way. Thanks again for that awesome advise btw

 

[Continuum]

You're a great friend too. I'm So happy for you with all the good things happening for you, which is why I know you're going to make it.

I'd second what SpartanII said about kratom being addictive in this situation. It is a very useful stepping stone, and the physical withdrawal is nothing, but the psychological dependence will take a little will power to overcome one you're past the worst of the sub detox.

 

[TGO]

Hey BundleflowerPower,

Coming off anything can be troublesome and difficult. I went through meth addiction for a couple years (been clean for 2+ now) and it was one of the hardest things I've ever done (next to quitting cigarettes). It will be a long and winding road, but it is achievable. Stay strong and positive and you'll be just fine!

I understand that feeling of being numb to everything. Nothing was too interesting and I was hurting myself and others without realizing or even caring...Ended up losing more than one girlfriend, lost my car, my job, and my apartment at the time. I felt like I was losing my mind. Luckily my family stepped in and took me back home, where I was able to recover for a few months before putting my head back on straight and heading out into the real world again.

To help with cravings I exercised (long walks and hiking mainly) and learned how to solve the 3x3 Rubik's Cube. I also spent a lot of time having conversations with my family about anything and everything. Keeping your mind occupied goes a long way!

Sending you positive energy and moral support from the peanut gallery.

I second this!! Good luck with your journey, man! I wish you the best!

 

[BundleflowerPower]

Btw, I started taking chantix yesterday as well.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

Hey BundleflowerPower,

Coming off anything can be troublesome and difficult. I went through meth addiction for a couple years (been clean for 2+ now) and it was one of the hardest things I've ever done (next to quitting cigarettes). It will be a long and winding road, but it is achievable. Stay strong and positive and you'll be just fine!

I understand that feeling of being numb to everything. Nothing was too interesting and I was hurting myself and others without realizing or even caring...Ended up losing more than one girlfriend, lost my car, my job, and my apartment at the time. I felt like I was losing my mind. Luckily my family stepped in and took me back home, where I was able to recover for a few months before putting my head back on straight and heading out into the real world again.

To help with cravings I exercised (long walks and hiking mainly) and learned how to solve the 3x3 Rubik's Cube. I also spent a lot of time having conversations with my family about anything and everything. Keeping your mind occupied goes a long way!

Sending you positive energy and moral support from the peanut gallery.

I second this!! Good luck with your journey, man! I wish you the best!

Luckily meth isn't big here, I'm glad I never used it more than a couple times.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

So work went good. Cannabis seems to keep me okay at work, and I got a lot done. It's late at night that I suffer. I can fall asleep, and stay asleep for a few hours, then about 2 or 3 am, I wake up with restless legs. Hopefully, after the amount of work I did today, I'll sleep through the night. I may have a beer or two with some herb here shortly.

Last night was quite rough, I kept waking up with my legs and arms moving all over. That combined with chantix dreams, it was pretty weird. Oh well, off to work. Still no opiates since that second day I took a sliver. But in the interest of honesty, I did take a 20 mg addy ir at work yesterday.

 

[null24]

Some of the restless leg thing can be helped with magnesium. Get bath salts ( magnesium of course) and take a bath in it. There relaxation will help and you may get more sleep.

I've been hearing more and more about folks using kratom, buy I'm leery of it, since it is a mu agonist and is addictive as well.

Also be careful with the clonodine/klonopin combo. Clonidine can greatly reduce the effects of opiate withdrawal, but you should be over there acute phase by now.

It seems you're doing well and i know you have a good head on your shoulders. Opiate dependant is no place to be man, you got this. I take it you took oxy for pain? I'm curious about a pain related addiction as opposed to one where the addict is chasing the high, and the difference in emotional attachment to the substance. Of coarse, no one can speak to that who hasn't gone through both and i don't think that person exists.

Be good to you,

PAX IN LUX

 

[SpartanII]

So work went good. Cannabis seems to keep me okay at work, and I got a lot done. It's late at night that I suffer. I can fall asleep, and stay asleep for a few hours, then about 2 or 3 am, I wake up with restless legs. Hopefully, after the amount of work I did today, I'll sleep through the night. I may have a beer or two with some herb here shortly.

Last night was quite rough, I kept waking up with my legs and arms moving all over. That combined with chantix dreams, it was pretty weird. Oh well, off to work. Still no opiates since that second day I took a sliver. But in the interest of honesty, I did take a 20 mg addy ir at work yesterday.

It seems like you're leaning heavily on other drugs to manage your withdrawals. This can lead to a dependency on them, and you may end up replacing one addiction with another (or several at the same time).:!:

I would also recommend you avoid alcohol, as not only is it addictive and toxic, but can actually make the physical withdrawals worse, depending on what stage of withdrawal you're currently going through.

What you're going through is a detoxification, re-balancing, and healing of body and mind. Pumping more drugs into your body when it's trying to detox and re-balance itself is only going to suppress the healing process and draw out the discomfort. Pain, lethargy, anxiety, and boredom are part of the process, but it's temporary. You're going to feel shitty for a while, just accept it and use it as motivation to not put yourself through this terrible addiction again.

For restless legs, I second what null24 said about magnesium. Epsom salt baths can be very effective. Also, extra potassium in the diet helps RLS.

Here's a little trick to help with restless legs/insomnia and muscle pain that accompanies withdrawals: Icy-Hot/Ben-Gay cream. After you take a nice hot epsom salt bath, rub some Icy-Hot on your legs, butt, and lower back and then go to bed. The medication will sooth the pain, and the intense-yet-pleasurable cold/hot sensation seems to confuse the RLS sensations. It's kind of like having someone give you a massage while you go to sleep.

Source: 10 years of personal opiate addiction hell/learning experience.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

Some of the restless leg thing can be helped with magnesium. Get bath salts ( magnesium of course) and take a bath in it. There relaxation will help and you may get more sleep.

I've been hearing more and more about folks using kratom, buy I'm leery of it, since it is a mu agonist and is addictive as well.

Also be careful with the clonodine/klonopin combo. Clonidine can greatly reduce the effects of opiate withdrawal, but you should be over there acute phase by now.

It seems you're doing well and i know you have a good head on your shoulders. Opiate dependant is no place to be man, you got this. I take it you took oxy for pain? I'm curious about a pain related addiction as opposed to one where the addict is chasing the high, and the difference in emotional attachment to the substance. Of coarse, no one can speak to that who hasn't gone through both and i don't think that person exists.

Be good to you,

PAX IN LUX

When I was on pills, I'd take hydro or oxycodone. I started taking them at work, then eventually couldn't or didn't want to work without them. I was living on a 4 hour cycle, I had a schedule, eat pills at 6am, more at 10, more at 2pm, then the last dose at 10pm.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

So work went good. Cannabis seems to keep me okay at work, and I got a lot done. It's late at night that I suffer. I can fall asleep, and stay asleep for a few hours, then about 2 or 3 am, I wake up with restless legs. Hopefully, after the amount of work I did today, I'll sleep through the night. I may have a beer or two with some herb here shortly.

Last night was quite rough, I kept waking up with my legs and arms moving all over. That combined with chantix dreams, it was pretty weird. Oh well, off to work. Still no opiates since that second day I took a sliver. But in the interest of honesty, I did take a 20 mg addy ir at work yesterday.

It seems like you're leaning heavily on other drugs to manage your withdrawals. This can lead to a dependency on them, and you may end up replacing one addiction with another (or several at the same time).:!:

I would also recommend you avoid alcohol, as not only is it addictive and toxic, but can actually make the physical withdrawals worse, depending on what stage of withdrawal you're currently going through.

What you're going through is a detoxification, re-balancing, and healing of body and mind. Pumping more drugs into your body when it's trying to detox and re-balance itself is only going to suppress the healing process and draw out the discomfort. Pain, lethargy, anxiety, and boredom are part of the process, but it's temporary. You're going to feel shitty for a while, just accept it and use it as motivation to not put yourself through this terrible addiction again.

For restless legs, I second what null24 said about magnesium. Epsom salt baths can be very effective. Also, extra potassium in the diet helps RLS.

Here's a little trick to help with restless legs/insomnia and muscle pain that accompanies withdrawals: Icy-Hot/Ben-Gay cream. After you take a nice hot epsom salt bath, rub some Icy-Hot on your legs, butt, and lower back and then go to bed. The medication will sooth the pain, and the intense-yet-pleasurable cold/hot sensation seems to confuse the RLS sensations. It's kind of like having someone give you a massage while you go to sleep.

Source: 10 years of personal opiate addiction hell/learning experience.

Problem is, I can't function at work in this condition, but I do agree, the thing is that suboxone withdrawal is so much more intense than any other opiate that I've used, I think perhaps, when viewed as a tool, another substance can help quite a bit. These last few days I've noticed that adderal almost completely makes me feel better, and not being an opiate as well, I've been taking it as needed, the smallest effective amount. I also have this idea (which could be wrong), that adderal may speed the process a bit by increasing Matabalism.

Anyway, I took off today. I haven't taken anything for the symptoms, I do feel quite bad. I have a couple of slivers of sub stashed for an emergency, ~0.2 mg each. Btw, Cool trick with the icy hot, I'll try that.

I'm just ready for the physical withdrawals to end, I can deal with the psychological effects. Isn't it sort of stupid that it's so easy for a person to go to a doctor and get on suboxone, yet there's absolutely no help available to get off. And the one thing that can cure it, iboga is illegal. Man I wish I had the funds and time to go and take ibogaine. I'd leave today if that were possible.

 

[BundleflowerPower]

Btw, I'm not sure if I mentioned this above, I feel quite lazy right now and really don't feel like reading through the thread again (sad huh?).
I've noticed with kratom, is that it gets rid of 100% of the symptoms, except for one, for up to 8 hours for me. Kratom allows bowel movements, and not the withdrawal sort, but the normal sort. Even times in the past, when I'd run out of suboxone, and only be out for one day, if I take kratom, it gets rid of the crappy feelings and I'm back using the bathroom. Just thought I'd mention that for what it's worth, as it seems to me that the detox process is still going on if the body can still eliminate the toxins.

And perhaps I'm being hard headed, but I'm not that worried about becoming hooked on kratom, as even if I did, there's just no way any of its withdrawals could ever compare with that of buprenephrine. Same with adderal, I took it for years, even abused it at times, but had no issue quitting, and no withdrawals after stopping. I'm basically attempting to manage the worst symptoms so I can work and more importantly sleep. But having said that, right now I'm hanging out with a good friend, who's does counsling work with opiate addicts, mostly H. We both seem to agree that for at least some part of each day I should allow myself to become sick before taking anything for the withdrawals, to allow my body to clean out, as someone said above.

CBD also helps me sleep, I was able to obtain some hemp oil. I wish sanity would prevail and cannabis be made totally legal in my state, this would be way, way easier for me.

Now if I'm wrong about any of this, please inform me of where I'm mistaken or things to keep in mind.

with the pills, when I would run out and be in withdrawal (which was quite often) I could still work, and at that time, I was working in a huge shipyard, painting the inside of ballast tanks and cargo holds, with little ventilation and extreme heat. If I wasn't working, all I would do is eat and sleep. With suboxone withdrawal I don't think I could do that sort of work, I don't eat right and I can literally go days without sleep.

Actually, I used to be one of those people who would drive to Houston, and hit up as many pain clinics as I had time to hit, and money for, as it was all wide open there back then. So suboxone did indeed help me, I used to spend 90% of my time thinking about getting more pills. When I first switched, I didn't know what to do with myself, I had so much time on my hands.