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Comparisons between Iboga and Ayahuasca

Migrated topic.
Hmmm yeah it's stuff like this that makes me think that people may benefit more from seeking out a trusted friend or family member as a sitter, as oppose to forking out vast sums to have someone claiming to be a shaman or nganga of questionable conduct or honour sit for them. This view is also based on personal experience.
 
Back to the OP, I'd say more like KIAP, if you're fortunate enough to experiment both, you really think you're blessed to have access to both of their language.

But all these plants, alcaloids, compounds, have their own language which tries to interact with you, it's not their fault if you don't understand them, you called them.
 
I was interested to see the female that was on u tube describe Ayahuasca as feminine, and nice, useful, but not necessarily as direct and honest as iboga. Maybe she has a point. I haven't tried iboga, so i can't say. But there is a lot of fussing on these forums i noticed. Could this be the doing of the Ayahuasca mind? :roll:
 
I would not put much faith in that site christian. For every one of those reports they could have 5 horrible reports from people who hated that shaman, did not agree with this comparison etc..

Obviously this guy wants to make money and has left a trail of pissed off people in his wake..he is going to put videos on his site that are going to favor his own bias and make him look good reguardless of how true or not true it all is.
 
You're most likely right Jamie. Please excuse my silly sense of humour, with my last post. Of course Ayahuasca has it's valid place. I'm sure Iboga has one too, but they are both special and sacred IMO. 😉

EDIT: One of the wonders of Iboga is supposedly getting direct answers to any questions you ask, and this supposedly can happen in the first session, and every session. This aspect of Iboga intrigues me the most. I don't know if this is true for Ayahuasca. If this is true for Iboga, then it must have tremendous appeal for those that want to quickly get to grips with their past, get answers, and move forward. 8)
 
Bancopuma said:

I've got to say I'm fascinated by this Uchu Sananho aka Tabernaemontana sananho and how it used by itself and alongside ayahuasca.
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Ive got a brew with a small amount of Tabernaemontana sananho in it. 25g in a 500g strong caapi and chaliponga brew. It makes your bones chill for some minutes as the Chaliponga kicks in.

Definately noticeable. Slightly uncomfortable, but the pay off is worth it. Sweet release from its weird grip.

The relief enhances the light, making it quite euphoric when the chills wear off.
 
I can now say with experience that Iboga=Ayahuasca and Ayahuasca=Iboga if the brew is made with love and devotion and strength of plants. The most important element in this equation in my opinion is the true mother Banisteriopsis Muricata. Understand that my points are completely subjective and from intuitive experience. That being said with 3 days straight of Muricata with 10+ admixture plants including Tabernaemontana Undulata and Tabernaemontana Sananho I can honestly say Ayahuasca for me has somehow resolved some deep things that Iboga did not. But I am sure in the future Iboga will too in it's turn. But I feel for sometime I will be focusing on Muricata/Acacia Confusa/Tabernaemontana's/Cumaceba/Ayahuma as we know Iboga is endangered and therefore for the next 5-15 years I feel it to be more fitting to work in this way. As well the true Chaliponga has now been identified by a reliable retailer. So healing can be as potent if not more potent if using Ayahuasca in this way.

With Ayahuasca there is so much variance in quality. I find much of it is dictated by the love and devotion put into the brew. I feel that when I have not been fully dedicated to certain brews it lacks the healing love force to make for a centripical force.

There fore I think this guy from "Iboga House" channeled a weak form of Caapi and not the true Mother of Banisteriopsis Muricata. I am absolutely in love with her, and I am not the only one. I feel we are in the verge of some major healing in this wavelength as Muricata seems to be calling us to heal locally with reflection on the Amazon influence. It is for these times and we owe a debt of gratitude to forum members here and there who have worked tirelessly over the years to both insure growth and get indentification correct through and through.

Also for me Kambo comes out much more through Muricata and a loving Ayahuasca brew than with Iboga. I must face the facts of intuition and express my sincere honesty.
 
Funny that all of a sudden, a lot of people are talking about this Banesteriopsis Muricata plant. As if it´s discovery is a recent event.

The way in wich people describe it make it seem as if it´s effects are somehow in between those of iboga and those of caapi.

Very interesting.
 
Brand new ancient or as Peter Tosh and Roots Manuva like to say, "Brand New Second Hand".

Expect next up on the even more ancient newness to be Caupuri Vine ("Ancestor first Banisteriopsis Caapi").

And of course thanks to cats like Fractal, Druid Dream, Zaka and ultimately Chaliponga Dreams...Alicia is pretty hot on the list. A more Universal appeal than the more Amazonian and local inspirational Muricata. So if you want to defeat fracking, drink your Muricata and chant down Baby Lon.

Ka Boing
 
polytrip said:
Funny that all of a sudden, a lot of people are talking about this Banesteriopsis Muricata plant. As if it´s discovery is a recent event.

The way in wich people describe it make it seem as if it´s effects are somehow in between those of iboga and those of caapi.

Very interesting.
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I have not found muricata to be much different from caapi to be honest, I really love it though..just that it is much more powerful than what I am used to(other than this weird vine I have from maya that I suspect might not be caapi). The alicia is the one that felt more different from caapi..the alicia had a darker vibe in a way..hard to explain. The tests endless did would back this up..muricata seems to contain harmine, harmaline and THH..alicia contains none of those..

Personally, right now my preferred choice of harmalas is actaully still rue. I love rue and honestly it is the cleanest and clearest for me..at least atm. I am going to only work with more purified extracts for the next little while because at the levels I want to reach anyway I can get so much nausea for up to a day that I cant process as much durring the actaul experience.

I want to go deeper with the cleanest, clearest trip possible. I think we can improve upon the amazonian techniques to be honest..and so I will explore muricata and alicia this summer with alakloid extractions and full spectrum admixture extracts..and lots of rue harmalas. Poor rue gets left out far too often. I love rue..
 
Syrian Rue doesn't make me purge so it doesn't get my personal preference. To me Muricata is a TOTALLY different vibe that caapi. True Mother.

But because of Kambo I am extra sensitive. Yeah call Kambo talk elitist...which is actually true as it is the head doctor of the universe if done properly on meridians. If you want the cleanest possible Aya journey have Kambo right when the sun comes out and Ayahuasca right when sun goes down.

And no you can't beat the ancient Paje' Kampu' Kaxinawa technology. Tries as you want they like the Bwiti have tricks up their sleeves only bestowed to those with reverence for the source.

Indigenous Curanderos/Kambo's/Ngangas will always and ever be the trend setters.
 
see this is why I think a lot of this is just personal preferance..because I cant purge with caapi any more than I can with rue. I have had some horrid times with caapi where I am sick for 24 hours and I try to purge and just cant..then I have had times with rue where I can purge effortlessly..and vice versa. It seems that way for me.

Either way I just love them all..I love beta carbolines and all the plants that carry them. Most often I mix them all together. I mixed rue, white vine, alicia vine with chalipong and mimosa on the eclipse..that was a very nice mixture.

My personal take on this after drinking ayahuasca a couple hundred times and working with other teachers is that these alkaloids have just as much spirit as the plants do. If we are truely animists this should be a given..I think that the messages imparted in these experiences are from a connection to a larger planetary or galactic mind-system..or something like that. These alkalids are put forth all throughout the natural system by the intelligence of the planet, and nature in general..it is beyond any one plant spirit being above another etc..I see them as pheremones almost that occur again and again all throughout the planet so that mammals can ingest them and tap into the planetary information systems.

I dont buy into the idea that the natives have the upper hand really. I think what they have is a context that many of us in the west lack and for that they should be respected..but I still think that we can improve upon some aspects..and it is not a linear thing like this is better than that etc..it should never come to that..that is the left brain gone insane..but there are things that we can do that they have never done.

Ask endless about how the shaman that he gave DMT to felt about it..he loved it. I have heard many stories of shamans smoking DMT with gringos and just loving the stuff. When Hoffman gave Maria Sabina pure psilocybin she loved it and claimed he had isolated the mushrooms spirit..Narajno brought the amazonians LSD in exchange for ayahuasca and they loved the stuff and claimed it was powerful medicine.. At the same time I am sort of over having stomach cramps and being sick for hours when I want to reach the depth of experience that I crave at this point. Sure levels lower than that it is not such a big deal...but at real large doses it is. Purging is fine and it is healing..but it does at times get in the way of deeper processing. There is no reason why being sick should take priority..it is just one of the methods available and it certainly has it's advantages. I have been brewing for years and done this hundreds of times. I dont think there is something the natives do with brewing that I have yet to try. I do know that I can purify my extractions more while still retaining the full sprectrum integrity of the plant and that allows for deeper processing of the experience due to less physical distraction. Ayahuasca is just a crude extraction, and to a certain extent can be improved upon in my opinion. In a way I am very interested in the "spirits" of the molecules for the time being. I love crystals and think discovery is part of this alchemy.

I want to move foreward and discover new things. I dont want to remain stuck in the same spot I was prior. Indigenous peoples are not gods. They are people like you and I. We all have the knowledge inside of us and the same potantial. I dont like putting them on some pedistal above us in the west. It is time we stop piggybacking in a way and find our own light. In this way we loose nothing but gain something to share with the cultures we learn so much from.
 
jamie said:
I want to move foreward and discover new things. I dont want to remain stuck in the same spot I was prior. Indigenous peoples are not gods. They are people like you and I. We all have the knowledge inside of us and the same potantial. I dont like putting them on some pedistal above us in the west. It is time we stop piggybacking in a way and find our own light. In this way we loose nothing but gain something to share with the cultures we learn so much from.
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^^Exactly.
 
I don't remember saying they were Gods. For me they are teachers and have direct ties to the origins. Reading the Anastasia books of the Ringing Cedars might relate better to what I am getting at. A remembrance.

But just as a note. I don't do DMT by itself, have never and will never. So this is purely subjective and I should have categorized my statements in that way. Some seem to get angry at me for just saying I am not interested in ganja, mushrooms or DMT, but for me I go with my intuitions and what works for me on a long term basis.

With anything # of experiences means very little, it is the overall content. So I have read how many times you have had Aya on numerous occassions now and wondering why that would be so important. The first time I had Aya changed me forever and that was profound enough. So # don't count as this is no contest. Once could spark something dormant and that person could find what they needed to locate their true purpose.

I stand by my statements that indigenous peoples are the most advanced. For instance can you make your own clothes, be an internal compass in all wilderness, forage successfully, hunt if needed, and find entheogens? These are not easy things but viewed as primitive and yet it seems that is what humanity needs most now.
 
I was not saying that you said they were gods kambo..I was just being sort of sarcastic. I understand your point of view and I spent a long time working with these plants in that way and understand the advantages.. I dont take DMT by itself either..not that I dont like it, just that with some harmalas it is a deeper and more meaningful experience for me.

I just dont like the whole top to bottom scale I see often in a broader sense among the entheo community. I have been thinking about this often lately. The whole plant vs chemical debate is endless and I think it only serves to seperate people within an already fringe community. This is the last thing this community needs and to be honest the whole debate is just rediculous at this point. I have heard so much pharma, DMT and extraction bashing come from the ayahuasca community and I find it to be a self limiting paradigm.
I feel the same way about idealizing jungle shamans etc too much. I think we have our ways here and we do have some things that we can share with them. Science is not all bad..though I am more interested in alchemy than anything else at this point so I dont really have a problem with the idea that a crystalized DMT or harmine molecule can have an animate spirit of its own..spirit is within everything.

I find it funny how in the ayahuasca community there is so much talk from people who probly make half this crap up about purified pharma extracts having no spirit and not being medicine and all this bs..yet if you take one look at the iboga community one thing you notice right away is that most of these providers are using either total alkloid extracts..or pure ibogaine synthed from precursers extracted from voacanga africana..it is hard to deny the ammount of healing that has come from this. Spirit of iboga?..spirit of ibogaine?..or spirit of iboga alkaoids? Does it even matter? What matters is that people are getting what they need. Anything else is just talk.

I have similar feelings about comparisons between these things also..it is fine to do so but I mean, I think it is all subjective. People can go on forever about why ayahuasca is better than iboga..or why iboga is better than peyote or why san pedro is better than mushrooms etc..

For me, mushrooms are so close to my heart..but that is just my thing I guess. I love them to death and always will. DMT and mushrooms have always been by 2 closest allies. I also feel that salvia divinorum is largly underrated though and that most people never really use it to it's full potential..

I think everyone should just follow their intuition..and if that is what you are doing than you just keep doing it.
 
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