Complete Newbie - Build Up, or Deep End DMT?

[ArchetypalDreamer]

Hi all,

I recently introduced myself and briefly discussed my first experience with Aya here: Click!

Needless to say, it ‘worked’ insofar as my serotonin levels sky-rocketed (placebo? I genuinely think otherwise) and, bizarrely, a plan coalesced from seemingly nowhere and gave me insight into how to forge ahead in life. I am now following this path almost to the letter and wow. Life is flowing.

I didn’t receive any visuals, however. Not that I wanted to; it would most certainly have been a bonus, but it wasn’t what I was chiefly concerned with. I sought healing and insight primarily, and I sincerely believe I received that.

Although I plan to revisit Aya in the not too distant future, my attention has now turned to DMT.

I can go into the why if requested, but for now I shall merely state that my brain has always been wired to see behind the veil of reality. I have long been aware that there is a great deal more to this reality than meets the senses, and I believe that I now finally have the key within my grasp to unlock the chains of perception and truly ‘see’ for the first time.

I seek a higher perspective. I like questions; I like ambiguity. I am not seeking ‘the’ answer. I want to experience that which I have felt for all of my life. I want to meet it, shake its hand and hopefully be taken on the grand tour.

The problem?

I’ve never experienced anything remotely psychedelic before, so going off the deep end with DMT may be seen as a bit reckless… but then looking around these forums teaches me that even experienced psychonauts (sorry if that’s crappy terminology!) have had their minds utterly annihilated by the stuff.

My question: Shall I go off the deep end, or should I build up to it?

I have no fear – I am prepared to be kicked in the nads… but there are people here far wiser and far more experienced than myself; I will heed your words should you advise against it.

Many thanks in advance

- AD

 

[obliguhl]

I know this "placebo" stuff you are talking about. It is a sign that you have made your decision to go slow already, because otherwise you would have had a strong experience.
I don't understand why you expect to be kicked in the nuts and why you don't fear it though. Probably because you have not experienced it yet. I'm not saying that fear of it is justified, but would be very understandable.

If i were you, i'd do both. Start small and then perhaps decide spontanously what you want to do next. You say you don't have any experience with psychedelics...that's great, so even a small dose of dmt will be very interesting to you.

Also, a good choice for your first psychedelic because a decent dose can show you the potential of these things. Will be over quickly - another plus.

but then looking around these forums teaches me that even experienced psychonauts (sorry if that’s crappy terminology!) have had their minds utterly annihilated by the stuff.

That is very, very irrelevant in my opinion. Intensity is irrelevant. Every psychedelic is different and useful in different ways. Intensity is also dose variable..that is true for ayahuasca, mushrooms and yes, even DMT.

Nothing wrong with starting small. Perhaps you won't like it, even though it got the feeling you will.

 

[ArchetypalDreamer]

Thanks for the response!

I don't understand why you expect to be kicked in the nuts

After reading through some of the 'breakthrough' experiences, I assumed having one's mind annihilated came with the territory!

and why you don't fear it though.

Once I set my mind to something, it means I've done a reasonable amount of research and feel adequately prepared for what may come. I respect DMT; I do not for one second take it lightly, just as I did not take Aya lightly. I'm fully aware that this stuff could potentially flip my world upside down... but my desire to take that step into the great unknown far outweighs any fear or apprehension I feel towards it.

Then we come to this:

you have not experienced it yet.

How can I fear that which I do not know?

The fear will likely come later

That being said, once I had ingested Aya I did feel a vague anxiousness. Even though I didn't experience the visuals, and even though I didn't keep it down all that long, it completely handed my arse to me. I felt sort of stoned for a long while afterwards, and later went for a 'nap' which turned out to be a good few hours of the best sleep I've had in forever and a day

It was a day or so after that before I felt the beneficial effects. Although the initial purge was damn good, too.

I'll take your advice and start slowly. Many thanks for the response; it is hugely appreciated.

 

[Felnik]

My vote is to build up with smaller doses

 

[ArchetypalDreamer]

Then build up I shall.

I guess my original question wasn't posed very well. I was basically trying to enquire as to what members here thought of an uninitiated mind suddenly receiving a strong dose of DMT. Having never experienced psychedelics before, I wanted to gauge whether or not it was worth going off the deep end; would it crush me irreparably? Would it bend my mind in ways which I couldn't possibly conceive?

It's all highly subjective I guess. I believe I have a fairly robust mental resilience... but that's all hot air and worthless words until I've actually gone through with it.

The sensible option it is, then.

Cheers

 

[ArchetypalDreamer]

Oh, one more question (sorry!)

Chali.

Will it work? Is it recommended?

Cheers!

 

[d*l*b]

I’ve never experienced anything remotely psychedelic before, so going off the deep end with DMT may be seen as a bit reckless… but then looking around these forums teaches me that even experienced psychonauts (sorry if that’s crappy terminology!) have had their minds utterly annihilated by the stuff.

I think one of the things about DMT is that we are on something of a level playing field; we are all as likely as each other to feel a hyperslap, experience does not equal preparedness.

I am pretty much swimming against the tide here, I believe we should just chuck ourselves in at the deep end. My first journey I under-dosed and didn’t find anything of much interest at all. All that build up for nothing, I was wondering. I was seriously wondering what all the fuss was about. Once I actually worked with a reasonable dose I saw what all the fuss was about.

I have a different standpoint for a variety of reasons, and it is solely my own, please feel free to question it and make up your mind for yourself. My view is based upon my experiences, my view of the relative safety of DMT, and my physical reactions (not great in the most part) to lower doses of DMT.

Whatever happens a lower dose does not guarantee an easy/ier ride. As obliguhl says, it is dose variable. I have had very deep experiences at dose levels that should, in general, give me little more than uncomfortable bodyload. It can bite you at any level if that is what is due to happen.

A further question I suppose is "what is a low dose?". My view of a low dose will be different to others, and I find dose response ramps up very fast. At 20mg I will get very little effect, at ~25mg I will get a reasonable starting experience, ~30mg I am almost guaranteed a very deep experience, 40mg is not something I plan on doing any time soon based on previous experiences. Note that all these doses are based on very efficient vaping, I used to work at 40–60mg before I got a decent tool to work with. I have a reasonable natural tolerance to tryptamines, but others find they need far lower doses; there are reports, and I have experience of, others getting reliably deep experiences at ~15mg.

 

[ArchetypalDreamer]

Hey d*l*b, and thanks for the awesome response!

I think one of the things about DMT is that we are on something of a level playing field; we are all as likely as each other to feel a hyperslap, experience does not equal preparedness.

Good to know :thumb_up:

I am pretty much swimming against the tide here, I believe we should just chuck ourselves in at the deep end.

Those were my initial thoughts, though I felt it best to seek the advice of those better versed in the field.

my view of the relative safety of DMT

I also assumed DMT to be all but completely safe after reading up on it. I'm vaguely aware that there are some 'unclean' cooking methods which can lead to some nastiness, but overall I assumed that, because our bodies know exactly what to do with DMT, you were pretty much 'safe'... though I wouldn't like to try a stupidly high dose. From what I've read, going over 40g is NOT recommended. Naturally, my inquisitive mind has me wondering what 100g would do to someone. Not that I'd ever want to try it :shock:

and my physical reactions (not great in the most part) to lower doses of DMT.

If it's ok by you, I'd really appreciate it if you could elaborate upon this. Here or PM is great!

A further question I suppose is "what is a low dose?". My view of a low dose will be different to others, and I find dose response ramps up very fast. At 20mg I will get very little effect, at ~25mg I will get a reasonable starting experience, ~30mg I am almost guaranteed a very deep experience, 40mg is not something I plan on doing any time soon based on previous experiences. Note that all these doses are based on very efficient vaping, I used to work at 40–60mg before I got a decent tool to work with. I have a reasonable natural tolerance to tryptamines, but others find they need far lower doses; there are reports, and I have experience of, others getting reliably deep experiences at ~15mg.

This bothers me a bit too, and consequently I feel blind when discussing or considering doses. I doubt my being a relatively big guy (6ft 2½-3" ) has much to do with it, but I am extremely resistant to some anaesthetics; I've been known to require three shots of the stuff to numb the targeted area. I've also demonstrated a startling resistance to alcohol (back in the day) and some painkillers (legit use!) But how - if at all - does that translate to psychedelics?

Argh.

I guess the old phrase "Suck it and see" really comes in to play here

 

[3rdI]

I also assumed DMT to be all but completely safe after reading up on it. I'm vaguely aware that there are some 'unclean' cooking methods which can lead to some nastiness, but overall I assumed that, because our bodies know exactly what to do with DMT, you were pretty much 'safe'... though I wouldn't like to try a stupidly high dose. From what I've read, going over 40g is NOT recommended. Naturally, my inquisitive mind has me wondering what 100g would do to someone. Not that I'd ever want to try it :shock:

i have seen someone smoalk what i would guess was about 250mg of magic. It was a pile of crystals between 2 layers of changa.

he proceeded to lose all lucidity and shout, scream, gurgle and sprawl around on the floor trying his best to chew his tongue off for 20 mins.

clearly this is an insane amount to smoalk, but it shows that to much Magic (and stooopidity) can be a very dangerous thing

stay sensible folks

 

[ArchetypalDreamer]

Yeah... that definitely doesn't sound like much fun.

:surprised

 

[Sandgrease]

Start low and work your way up. Generally a good rule to follow for all drug use. DMT is pretty chill in low doses. Get your feet wet and get used to the physical sensations of tripping and work your way up to not being able to feel your body and whatnot.

 

[obliguhl]

... and whatnot.

 

[Jees]

...My first journey I under-dosed and didn’t find anything of much interest at all...Once I actually worked with a reasonable dose I saw what all the fuss was about...

Glad you found your pool of choice quickly but there is no harm in doing that gradual to discover the full range of experiences. Some people do fancy the low end though, perhaps not in search for fuzz, but like a healing hand stroke. Versatility at disposal to choose from. I would suggest not skipping any of it.

Same wise, I've always wondered about the aya ceremonies being the only way to visit aya, as microdosing has an own particular charm. Must it always be an arena or theater? Having a friend close by, chronically, is underestimated value. It's all there to appreciate, light and heavy, for different goals of course. Unless one in only interested in one segment, a free choice.

* * *

From a certain point on jumps over a body load, some people therefore avoid the mid-range, thus a practical reason.

 

[d*l*b]

Glad you found your pool of choice quickly but there is no harm in doing that gradual to discover the full range of experiences.

As I said—this is only my standpoint, and just another view on the conversation. I am not looking for pretty lights; although in some ways the experience could be seen to have some recreational value, that is not what I work for. I aim for complete annihilation of consensus reality. Horses for courses though. My approach is not one that everyone would want, or even agree with.

If I was to dose someone for the first time I would start with ~25mg (working with the GVG). That seems to be a good level, based on past experience. I have found that people who physically needed less seemed to somehow moderate their intake naturally.

I am wary of sharing it nowadays, due to the fact that I think those that take the idea of working with DMT will bother to go through the process of extraction themselves. I think playing the game from the start to finish is useful, important even. It has seemed that many I have met who want to try DMT without the work just don’t seem very serious to me. I believe this is a serious game which can precipate extreme results, I am not willing to be responsible for the possibility of a life-changing experience if people are just looking for pretty lights. That being said, I am not ruling out sharing again.

and my physical reactions (not great in the most part) to lower doses of DMT.

If it's ok by you, I'd really appreciate it if you could elaborate upon this. Here or PM is great!

In most cases, doses around 20mg and less give me very intense bodyload and little-to-no psychedelic effects. Effects I experience at this level are not great: pressure in the head, headache, nausea, a heavy feeling on my torso, feeling as if I am overheating. It has proven to be rare that I get anything worth doing it for. There have been a few exceptions to this (in some cases quite extreme aberrations), but it has been rare.

 

[Felnik]

 

[d*l*b]

Mmm, that is nice. =))

 

[ArchetypalDreamer]

I am wary of sharing it nowadays, due to the fact that I think those that take the idea of working with DMT will bother to go through the process of extraction themselves.

I know this comment wasn't aimed at me, but FWIW I fully intend to extract my own, hence my previous question regarding Chaliponga. I have quite a bit of it, and wondered if it was worth using as my source. I have ~95g (long story ).

In most cases, doses around 20mg and less give me very intense bodyload and little-to-no psychedelic effects. Effects I experience at this level are not great: pressure in the head, headache, nausea, a heavy feeling on my torso, feeling as if I am overheating. It has proven to be rare that I get anything worth doing it for. There have been a few exceptions to this (in some cases quite extreme aberrations), but it has been rare.

Are you using a 'clean' tek? I certainly don't know much about the ins and outs of extraction, but I've recently become aware that some teks are clean whereas others leave you with slightly toxic crystals (or something). I wouldn't expect those reactions purely from a substance which our body is an expert at handling!

Interesting; thanks for sharing

 

[d*l*b]

Chaliponga. I have quite a bit of it, and wondered if it was worth using as my source.

While it is possible to extract from Chaliponga, a better bet is ACRB or MHRB. If I had some Chali I would save it for a brew. There is not much in the way of information out there for you to guide yourself through the process with Chali, maybe it isn’t the best place to start for someone new to extractions. By all means go for it if you want though.

Are you using a 'clean' tek?

I am not sure I know of any “dirty” teks! I have extracted DMT using quite a few different teks over the years, none of which I would describe as “dirty”.

I wouldn't expect those reactions purely from a substance which our body is an expert at handling!

While DMT has been shown to be present in our bodies and we are very efficient at breaking it down, it is at extremely low levels in comparison to even the lowest doses anyone would ingest to attain psychedelic effects. Ingesting DMT is not normal to our systems, no matter how good our bodies are at dealing with it.

I get very little in the way of adverse effects at higher doses, the worst being a mild feeling of shock or, very rarely, nausea. Coming out of the experience and following the afterglow, I would say that on a physical level it as if I had taken nothing whatsoever most of the time.

 

[ArchetypalDreamer]

Thanks for clearing that up

Right, then. To the drawing board!