^^ add a tongue-in-cheek icon or you might be misleading people.
Wouldn't we frown if a new user wrote this?
Wouldn't we frown if a new user wrote this?
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Completly Natural Extraction
- Thread starter Aegle
- Start date
Better yet be green and pull PET bottles from a local water reservoir(trust me they're there). Do a dry distillation of said plastic with lime and obtain benzene.
Though I do agree the smell of benzene is actually pretty nice if you're into aromatics
it is known to be a carcinogen while limonene is not(yet). Just to clarify .
Though I do agree the smell of benzene is actually pretty nice if you're into aromatics
it is known to be a carcinogen while limonene is not(yet). Just to clarify .
InMotion said:Though I do agree the smell of benzene is actually pretty nice if you're into aromatics
InMotion
Indeed, truly I think it just comes down to personal preference for me... I don't see much point in using something which is carcinogenic and smells extremely offensive over something which isn't carcinogenic and smells lovely. Gee this thread is so old I started this thread in my really noob days, oh the nostalgia it invokes.
Much Peace and Understanding
Vodsel said:
Vodsel
:lol:
Much Peace and Respect
Aegle said:InMotion said:Though I do agree the smell of benzene is actually pretty nice if you're into aromatics
InMotion
Indeed, truly I think it just comes down to personal preference for me... I don't see much point in using something which is carcinogenic and smells extremely offensive over something which isn't carcinogenic and smells lovely. Gee this thread is so old I started this thread in my really noob days, oh the nostalgia it invokes.
Much Peace and Understanding
do you know how long it actually takes to develop tumors from constant
exposure to benzene? decades.
benzene doesn't smell particularly offensive, unless you're easily offended.
i prefer the smell of toluene over limonene, and the aromatics are every bit as natural,
derived from decomposed trees and animals.
they sure aren't extraterrestrial
aromatics smell great, hehe, certainly much better then d-limonene. The stench clings to your nasal passages, like an orchard of citrus trees.
but it doesnt smell as good as ethers and esters, acetone smells pretty darn good too, i like the smell of those oxygen carbon bonds they tickle my fancy.
All of which are still pretty natural, definitely from this earth.
xanthine and nuclecic acids could be alien though http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j_QHxWNRNdiW35Qr00L8CkwcXyvw
but it doesnt smell as good as ethers and esters, acetone smells pretty darn good too, i like the smell of those oxygen carbon bonds they tickle my fancy.
All of which are still pretty natural, definitely from this earth.
xanthine and nuclecic acids could be alien though http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5j_QHxWNRNdiW35Qr00L8CkwcXyvw
Ilex
Rising Star
Has anyone tried extracting with turpentine?
And check this out, you can distill heptane from Jeffrey Pine (Pinus jeffreyi):
And check this out, you can distill heptane from Jeffrey Pine (Pinus jeffreyi):
From: Pinus jeffreyi - Wikipedia
pretty much.
it's a "dry distillation", like sodium benzoate + sodium hydroxide.
it's a "dry distillation", like sodium benzoate + sodium hydroxide.
Alright. Seems pretty simple & straightforward.
Do you not mean Benzoic Acid + Sodium Hydroxide?
Wikipedia sais Benzoic Acid is what's in Benzoin Resin
and that Sodium Benzoate is what is created when
Lye & Benzoic acid are reacted with one another.
I was also wondering, since Styrax trees are probably unlikely to
be found growing in colder climates, do you need resin collected
from a Styrax tree? Or would Frankincense bought from a store
be a good, pure enough source of Benzoic acid?
Do you not mean Benzoic Acid + Sodium Hydroxide?
Wikipedia sais Benzoic Acid is what's in Benzoin Resin
and that Sodium Benzoate is what is created when
Lye & Benzoic acid are reacted with one another.
I was also wondering, since Styrax trees are probably unlikely to
be found growing in colder climates, do you need resin collected
from a Styrax tree? Or would Frankincense bought from a store
be a good, pure enough source of Benzoic acid?
nope, I meant sodium benzoate and sodium hydroxide
but the original one was using benzoin gum with lime
but the original one was using benzoin gum with lime
Alright. I love all these simple, natural extractions & preparations.
This is a list of neat little chemicals that can easily be made, naturally:
-Calcium Hydroxide(Lime) - Base
Crush Seashells and/or Snail shells to a powder & burn it well,
then mix thoroughly with water & allow to dry up.
-Potassium Hydroxide - Base
Mix ashes from burnt wood with water thoroughly. Strain this soup
through a very fine filter, collect the water & discard the ash-pulp.
Allow water to evaporate to yield Potassium Hydroxide crystals.
-Sodium Hydroxide - Base
Electrolysis can be done with two beakers, one containing a brine solution (salt water) and one containing pure water. A salt bridge can be made of a length of bent hose (a metal pipe should not be used) to connect the two beakers. Plug the ends with tissue or cloth. Put the negative electrode in the solution that you want to produce sodium hydroxide and hydrogen with. Put a positive electrode made from a carbon rod (or a pencil lead) into the solution that you want to produce the chlorine gas (metal electrodes such as copper used here will produce little gas, but instead will fall apart into green copper chloride). Connect both electrodes to the respective terminals of a 12 volt power supply.
Note: A salt bridge can also be made by soaking a folded up paper towel in the brine and inserting each end in the two beakers.
Use proper ventilation as Chlorine gas is quite toxic. Perhaps trap it in a container
& dissolve it in water: Bleach for use in toilet cleaning & fungicide. Not a bad bonus
The Hydrogen gas may also be trapped & stored for later use as a Fuel. If an extraction or
synthesis process requires significant heat a simple bunsen burner & Hydrogen gas tanks
may also prove usefull to a Bush/Kitchen Chemist for this purpose.
-Potassium Nitrate - Fuel, Fertiliser
Niter-beds are prepared by mixing manure with either mortar or wood ashes, common earth and organic materials such as straw to give porosity to a compost pile typically 1.5×2×5 meters in size.[11] The heap was usually under a cover from the rain, kept moist with urine, turned often to accelerate the decomposition, then finally leached with water after approximately one year, to remove the soluble calcium nitrate which was then converted to potassium nitrate by filtering through the potash.(Wikipedia)
Can anyone elaborate on this method? Or know a simpler or faster method?
-Ethanol(Alcohol) - Solvent
Dissolve plenty of Sugar in water in a suitable jerrycan.
Then add Yeast & allow to ferment. When Yeast is dead, filter out
the solids & throw the liquids into distiller. Low-temp distill
the liquid to yield relatively pure Ethanol as distillate.
This could be further dehydrated. Perhaps by using regular table salt?
Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not much of an alcohol brewer.
Let's see how much handy chemicals we can add to that list without doing anything too unnatural.
Correct me if I am wrong & feel free to add more handy Chemicals & simple methods to make them.
This is a list of neat little chemicals that can easily be made, naturally:
-Calcium Hydroxide(Lime) - Base
Crush Seashells and/or Snail shells to a powder & burn it well,
then mix thoroughly with water & allow to dry up.
-Potassium Hydroxide - Base
Mix ashes from burnt wood with water thoroughly. Strain this soup
through a very fine filter, collect the water & discard the ash-pulp.
Allow water to evaporate to yield Potassium Hydroxide crystals.
-Sodium Hydroxide - Base
Electrolysis can be done with two beakers, one containing a brine solution (salt water) and one containing pure water. A salt bridge can be made of a length of bent hose (a metal pipe should not be used) to connect the two beakers. Plug the ends with tissue or cloth. Put the negative electrode in the solution that you want to produce sodium hydroxide and hydrogen with. Put a positive electrode made from a carbon rod (or a pencil lead) into the solution that you want to produce the chlorine gas (metal electrodes such as copper used here will produce little gas, but instead will fall apart into green copper chloride). Connect both electrodes to the respective terminals of a 12 volt power supply.
Note: A salt bridge can also be made by soaking a folded up paper towel in the brine and inserting each end in the two beakers.
Use proper ventilation as Chlorine gas is quite toxic. Perhaps trap it in a container
& dissolve it in water: Bleach for use in toilet cleaning & fungicide. Not a bad bonus
The Hydrogen gas may also be trapped & stored for later use as a Fuel. If an extraction or
synthesis process requires significant heat a simple bunsen burner & Hydrogen gas tanks
may also prove usefull to a Bush/Kitchen Chemist for this purpose.
-Potassium Nitrate - Fuel, Fertiliser
Niter-beds are prepared by mixing manure with either mortar or wood ashes, common earth and organic materials such as straw to give porosity to a compost pile typically 1.5×2×5 meters in size.[11] The heap was usually under a cover from the rain, kept moist with urine, turned often to accelerate the decomposition, then finally leached with water after approximately one year, to remove the soluble calcium nitrate which was then converted to potassium nitrate by filtering through the potash.(Wikipedia)
Can anyone elaborate on this method? Or know a simpler or faster method?
-Ethanol(Alcohol) - Solvent
Dissolve plenty of Sugar in water in a suitable jerrycan.
Then add Yeast & allow to ferment. When Yeast is dead, filter out
the solids & throw the liquids into distiller. Low-temp distill
the liquid to yield relatively pure Ethanol as distillate.
This could be further dehydrated. Perhaps by using regular table salt?
Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not much of an alcohol brewer.
Let's see how much handy chemicals we can add to that list without doing anything too unnatural.
Correct me if I am wrong & feel free to add more handy Chemicals & simple methods to make them.
ChemisTryptaMan
Rising Star
I don't see how our current methods are un-natural. Everything used(including lye and naphtha) is found in nature to some extent. Yes the naphtha has to be pulled from crude oil, but crude oil is made from mostly decayed algae. And lye is just sodium(which is everywhere, as anyone with some experience with mass-spectrometry can tell you, and hydroxide(which is present in every glass or bottle of water you have ever swallowed. I wouldn't consider a tek un-natural unless it involved chemicals that needed to be synthesized in a laboratory.
That being said, if you can aquire some reagent grade d-limonene, it evaporates very cleanly and very fast. I worked with limonene in a research setting and was shocked when every time a drop escaped my pipette and landed on the lab bench, it evaporated completely within seconds. You can purify limonene yourself through fractional distillation, you just need to increase the number of "plates" that the vapors have to pass through. The other "contaminants" in limonene distilled from orange peels are only present in very small amounts, as I have run freshly extracted limonene through a GC more times than I can count, and always end up with over 98% limonene. Removing those traces by running another distillation at lower temps should get rid of most of the other 2%. But like I said in the beginning, I don't view any of the current teks as un-natural. Everything we use is present in nature, you just have to know where to look.
That being said, if you can aquire some reagent grade d-limonene, it evaporates very cleanly and very fast. I worked with limonene in a research setting and was shocked when every time a drop escaped my pipette and landed on the lab bench, it evaporated completely within seconds. You can purify limonene yourself through fractional distillation, you just need to increase the number of "plates" that the vapors have to pass through. The other "contaminants" in limonene distilled from orange peels are only present in very small amounts, as I have run freshly extracted limonene through a GC more times than I can count, and always end up with over 98% limonene. Removing those traces by running another distillation at lower temps should get rid of most of the other 2%. But like I said in the beginning, I don't view any of the current teks as un-natural. Everything we use is present in nature, you just have to know where to look.
hehe
people tend to have an innate fear or anxiety with chemicals,
or are concerned with their disposal, thus they seek more "eco-friendly"
alternatives.
for me, it's dcm all the way. either evap, or rotavap.
people tend to have an innate fear or anxiety with chemicals,
or are concerned with their disposal, thus they seek more "eco-friendly"
alternatives.
for me, it's dcm all the way. either evap, or rotavap.
For me it hasn't got much to do with natural or not. I agree that Lye & Naptha are
quite natural products. Allthough their purity might be less natural.
For me it's about availability. About 2 years ago, DiEthyl Ether was sold in mortar & brick drugstores,
usually in 500ml bottles. Then one day I wanted to pick some up and the store staff told me that they
were no longer allowed to sell DiEthyl Ether. Voicing some concern that it may be used as a drug.
Needless to say I was disturbed by this development, but luckily some time after I found an online drug-
store based in a neighboring country that still sold 1 liter bottles of DiEthyl Ether. I ordered from them
once or twice. After some time I wanted to order some DiEthyl Ether again and suddenly couldn't find it
anywhere in their assortiment. They removed it too. So DiEthyl Ether is now, as far as I know, unavailable to
me in this country. Even IF I find another supplier willing to sell me Diethyl Ether, since these developments
I do not feel that confident & secure about ordering Diethyl Ether anymore.
And THAT is why I would like to learn how to make my own solvents, bases & acids relatively simply from
readily available natural sources. Naphtha is rather hard to make unless you live near an oilpit, but
then again it's use as cooking & lighter fuel & cleansing agent makes it unlikely for it to ever be
taken off of the market like they did with Diethyl Ether in Holland. Same goes for Lye.
But let's not underestimate the persistance & capabilities of Tyranny. Let's suppose the tyrants who
are pushing the war on drugs DO take Naphtha & perhaps many other solvents off of the market(at least for
the general public). Perhaps they will only allow denatured naphtha to be sold as lighter & cooking fuel.
Just imagine a very dark scenario like that. With Diethyl Ether & MHRB removed from some markets &
Australia opting to outlaw many 100ds of plants, including it's own national symbol, it's not hard
to imagine more plants & even solvents becomming off limits to regular civilians.
Just what will we do then? Well if we have a sufficient body of knowledge on how to relatively simply
create many of these solvents, bases & acids ourselves from abundant natural sources then we could at
least prevent from being cut off completely from DMT: A molecule we all appreciate very much.
It would off course also require for us to homegrow many of the DMT bearing plants.
I want to be prepared for such a depressing scenario.
To add to the list of easy to make Solvents, Bases & Acids:
-Ethanol(Alcohol) - Solvent
Dissolve plenty of Sugar in water in a suitable jerrycan.
Then add Yeast & allow to ferment. When Yeast is dead, filter out
the solids & throw the liquids into distiller. Low-temp distill
the liquid to yield relatively pure Ethanol as distillate.
This could be further dehydrated. Perhaps by using regular table salt?
Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not much of an alcohol brewer.
IIRC I recall reading a topic about an Ethanolic extraction of DMT from
MHRB with acidified ethanol. Now suppose Naphtha & other solvents suddenly
are taken off of the market, then I could still obtain quite pure spice
with Ethanol, which is easy to homebrew.
quite natural products. Allthough their purity might be less natural.
For me it's about availability. About 2 years ago, DiEthyl Ether was sold in mortar & brick drugstores,
usually in 500ml bottles. Then one day I wanted to pick some up and the store staff told me that they
were no longer allowed to sell DiEthyl Ether. Voicing some concern that it may be used as a drug.
Needless to say I was disturbed by this development, but luckily some time after I found an online drug-
store based in a neighboring country that still sold 1 liter bottles of DiEthyl Ether. I ordered from them
once or twice. After some time I wanted to order some DiEthyl Ether again and suddenly couldn't find it
anywhere in their assortiment. They removed it too. So DiEthyl Ether is now, as far as I know, unavailable to
me in this country. Even IF I find another supplier willing to sell me Diethyl Ether, since these developments
I do not feel that confident & secure about ordering Diethyl Ether anymore.
And THAT is why I would like to learn how to make my own solvents, bases & acids relatively simply from
readily available natural sources. Naphtha is rather hard to make unless you live near an oilpit, but
then again it's use as cooking & lighter fuel & cleansing agent makes it unlikely for it to ever be
taken off of the market like they did with Diethyl Ether in Holland. Same goes for Lye.
But let's not underestimate the persistance & capabilities of Tyranny. Let's suppose the tyrants who
are pushing the war on drugs DO take Naphtha & perhaps many other solvents off of the market(at least for
the general public). Perhaps they will only allow denatured naphtha to be sold as lighter & cooking fuel.
Just imagine a very dark scenario like that. With Diethyl Ether & MHRB removed from some markets &
Australia opting to outlaw many 100ds of plants, including it's own national symbol, it's not hard
to imagine more plants & even solvents becomming off limits to regular civilians.
Just what will we do then? Well if we have a sufficient body of knowledge on how to relatively simply
create many of these solvents, bases & acids ourselves from abundant natural sources then we could at
least prevent from being cut off completely from DMT: A molecule we all appreciate very much.
It would off course also require for us to homegrow many of the DMT bearing plants.
I want to be prepared for such a depressing scenario.
To add to the list of easy to make Solvents, Bases & Acids:
-Ethanol(Alcohol) - Solvent
Dissolve plenty of Sugar in water in a suitable jerrycan.
Then add Yeast & allow to ferment. When Yeast is dead, filter out
the solids & throw the liquids into distiller. Low-temp distill
the liquid to yield relatively pure Ethanol as distillate.
This could be further dehydrated. Perhaps by using regular table salt?
Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not much of an alcohol brewer.
IIRC I recall reading a topic about an Ethanolic extraction of DMT from
MHRB with acidified ethanol. Now suppose Naphtha & other solvents suddenly
are taken off of the market, then I could still obtain quite pure spice
with Ethanol, which is easy to homebrew.
ChemisTryptaMan
Rising Star
benzyme said:
I would love to be able to use DCM and have a rotovap, Using DCM would make the use of a sep funnel much more beneficial when doing A/B extractions. I don't use one with the less dense organic solvents as the process is too tedious. You definitely got the right idea though. If I could use DCM, I would. Do you get full-spectrum alks using it or is the product fairly clean?
ChemisTryptaMan
Rising Star
SKA, what you suggest about the disappearance of organic solvents is already happening her in the US. California won't allow any solvent to be sold unless it is only about 50% pure. I know my figure is off a little but the point is that in California you already cant purchase naphtha in it's light form, though for some reason they still had bestine on the shelves when I was living there, so I guess the law is only enforced when they feel like it.
full spectrum, if a long soak of the material is performed. it's typically a yellow oil,
which recrystallizes nicely with boiling hexane
which recrystallizes nicely with boiling hexane
ChemisTryptaMan
Rising Star
That's what I expected, DCM is such a great solvent, and it is one of the few solvents that is actually more dense than water, making it ideal for those wanting to use a sep funnel. I should have access to some
I've wanted to try using it for a while now, but never really had the chance. I will be giving it a shot sometime soon. Thanks for the info benz.Mod said:
Exactly what I feared. The US takes pure solvents off of the market as a druglaw policy and
before too long this trend is followed in other western countries. I guess the UN is the vein-system
through which the US spreads their poisonous anti drug-policies & laws around the world.
That's why I'd like to learn how to make all my own solvents, bases & acids. In case this trend pushes
on and takes even more control. Time to get into extracting DMT with other, more easily obtained/produced solvents,
bases & acids. If this trend pushes on we may soon see pure Lye being replaced with hopelessly impurified Lye on the
shelves of stores. We may need to make our own Lye or other bases. Luckily this isn't too difficult.
Now if anyone knows any more easily produced solvents, bases &/or acids that can be made from readily available
natural sources or easier/more effective means of production of the ones I already mentioned do tell,
so I can expand the list.
Benzyme: The yellow oil that crystalises nicely, that you got with DCM, sounds alot like the yellow oil
that Naphtha(or whatever it is the Dutch call "Wasbenzine") pulls from a basic MHRB/H2O/NaOH sludge.
before too long this trend is followed in other western countries. I guess the UN is the vein-system
through which the US spreads their poisonous anti drug-policies & laws around the world.
That's why I'd like to learn how to make all my own solvents, bases & acids. In case this trend pushes
on and takes even more control. Time to get into extracting DMT with other, more easily obtained/produced solvents,
bases & acids. If this trend pushes on we may soon see pure Lye being replaced with hopelessly impurified Lye on the
shelves of stores. We may need to make our own Lye or other bases. Luckily this isn't too difficult.
Now if anyone knows any more easily produced solvents, bases &/or acids that can be made from readily available
natural sources or easier/more effective means of production of the ones I already mentioned do tell,
so I can expand the list.
Benzyme: The yellow oil that crystalises nicely, that you got with DCM, sounds alot like the yellow oil
that Naphtha(or whatever it is the Dutch call "Wasbenzine") pulls from a basic MHRB/H2O/NaOH sludge.