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Consuming MAOI

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Rising Star
Most people say using the DMT 15-30 minutes after taking the MAOI is best.

SWIM hasn't really noticed much difference though and considers the inconvenience not worth the tiny bit of extra potency you might get from taking the DMT after the MOAI.
 
s8championjgh said:
69ron said:
Most people say using the DMT 15-30 minutes after taking the MAOI is best.
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thats what i was thinking too

In that case, the dmt containing solution does not need to be boiled in ph water of 4 to 5 right?
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DMT has a pKa of 8.68. At pH 8.68 50% is ionized. At pH 7.68 90% is ionized. At pH 6.68 99% is ionized. The ionized form is water soluble. The unionized form is practically insoluble in water. So you want the ionized form.

Absolutely pure water has a pH of 7 until it sits around for a while and then the pH drops to about 6 or so. But some tap water is hard water and can have a pH higher than 8.5 and would be poor for extracting DMT if it was too hard. If you have hard water, you might need to bring the pH to 6 for best results by adding some sort of acid. Actually though, the plant material itself has a pH of about 5-6 anyway, so normally, even if the water is hard, the plant material will bring the pH down to 6 or less.

Some forms of DMT are more water soluble than others, so picking the right acid makes a difference. The DMT in mimosa is likely DMT tannate. Little is known about DMT tannate’s water solubility. Natives never add acid to their brews and their brews work just fine. You don’t want something like DMT fumarate because it has poor water solubility. DMT acetate has great water solubility and is made by simply adding vinegar.
 
69ron said:
Some forms of DMT are more water soluble than others, so picking the right acid makes a difference. The DMT in mimosa is likely DMT tannate. Little is known about DMT tannate’s water solubility. Natives never add acid to their brews and their brews work just fine. You don’t want something like DMT fumarate because it has poor water solubility. DMT acetate has great water solubility and is made by simply adding vinegar.
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DMT phosphate's quite soluble, isn't it? If SWIM were to make a pharmahuasca brew, would it be more advisable to start from freebase, or would dissolving the fumarate form in ascetic or phosphoric acid result in the formation of ascetates or phosphates? Perhaps if heated?
 
SWIM finds taking DMT fumarate orally with water is fine...no need to convert it to another salt..just make sure its mixed up well..with the molecules suspended in the water..should work great
 
Jorkest said:
SWIM finds taking DMT fumarate orally with water is fine...no need to convert it to another salt..just make sure its mixed up well..with the molecules suspended in the water..should work great
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Well, SWIM's had mixed results with it and was thinking that perhaps the solubility of the fumarate might be a problem. Is it possible that the metabolism must be quite active to properly absorb the fumarates, and that more soluble salt-forms absorb well regardless of metabolism?
 
Jorkest said:
SWIM finds taking DMT fumarate orally with water is fine...no need to convert it to another salt..just make sure its mixed up well..with the molecules suspended in the water..should work great
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So if you take extracted DMT orally, does it need to be fumerate, or can it be the stuff that you get from a normal STB extraction?
And will this dissolve in water or will SWIM need to add some vinegar or something?
 
soulman said:
Jorkest said:
SWIM finds taking DMT fumarate orally with water is fine...no need to convert it to another salt..just make sure its mixed up well..with the molecules suspended in the water..should work great
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So if you take extracted DMT orally, does it need to be fumerate, or can it be the stuff that you get from a normal STB extraction?
And will this dissolve in water or will SWIM need to add some vinegar or something?
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yes you can take the stuff straight from an STB.. but if it has a bit of lye contamination, it might hurt on its way down the throat or cause some stomach upset. Recrystalizing is recommended (or/and washing with sodium carbonate while still dissolved in the non polar solvent).

SWIM already ate straight STB stuff mixed with some mashed banana for easy swallowing. It was ok but stomach didnt like so much.

Or just dissolve in any acidic water. SWIM already used a bit of warm lemon tea to dissolve freebase (it took a while to dissolve and even was still one piece of suspended freebase which was a somehow dense little rock so didnt dissolve, SWIM just swallowed as it was and had no problem.

One can also take it in a capsule if one can get some. Or dissolve in some other dilute food grade acid such as a bit of vinegar.
 
you can take freebase dmt orally but it has to be converted into a salt in your stomach..which slows down absorption..you can mix it in water with some citric acid to salt it and mix it all together and then take it...works like a charm
 
Jorkest said:
you can take freebase dmt orally but it has to be converted into a salt in your stomach..which slows down absorption..you can mix it in water with some citric acid to salt it and mix it all together and then take it...works like a charm
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Citric acid!!
So could one squeeze some lemon juice into the water? Thatd work right?
 
Yes. Lemon is a great source of citric acid. DMT citrate is very water soluble (it's very hygroscopic and rapidly absorbs water directly from the air becoming a wet mess in seconds upon exposure to the air).

DMT fumarate is the least water soluble form of DMT known to me. That’s why it’s the only salt form known that is not hygroscopic.

A good oral dose of DMT fumarate will dissolve easily in a glass of water. Its less water soluble than DMT citrate, but still water soluble. When I said that its poorly water soluble, that’s in relation to the other popular salt forms (hydrochloride, tartrate, citrate, acetate, phosphate) which are all more water soluble.
 
Jorkest said:
you can take freebase dmt orally but it has to be converted into a salt in your stomach..which slows down absorption..you can mix it in water with some citric acid to salt it and mix it all together and then take it...works like a charm
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SWIM has not found that to be true. It came up always in the same speed (once even quicker) when taking the freebase than taking in acid form. Sure there are possibly other variables that SWIM doesnt remember now, such as how long since last meal and so on, but in any case the fact is there was no significant difference in speed of absorption, for SWIM, in terms of dmt acetate, citrate, the original salt (tannate?) and freebase. People seem to say phosphoric makes it quicker but SWIM never tried
 
It's a well known fact in the pharmaceutical industry that different salt forms of a drug have different absorption rates. Some can actually even be more toxic than others. That is why drugs are approved for use by salt form. For example, if a hydrochloride is approved by the FDA, a fumarate would need separate approval requiring new tests or selling it would be illegal even though the hydrochloride was approved by the FDA.

The only form of DMT ever approved for research by the FDA is DMT fumarate. A licensed researcher cannot test any other form of DMT without getting it approved first.
 
69ron said:
SWIM hasn't really noticed much difference though and considers the inconvenience not worth the tiny bit of extra potency you might get from taking the DMT after the MOAI.
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Really? not a big difference in length or potency? How much rue did swiy consume?
 
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