I would argue that they are products of fantasy and imagination of a violent warlike culture.
Myths
are commonly considered to be products of human fantasy and
10
imagination not unlike stories of modern fiction writers and
playwrights.
He tends to rewrite the definition of the word myth over and over again. As do others who like to change us into thinking these things are not myths but truths.
I hope that the above discussion adequately addressed the first
question that I asked earlier in my presentation: “How could ancient
Mayans two thousand years ago discover anything that would be
relevant for humanity in the twenty-first century?”
Actually the above discussion did not answer anything only make vague claims and speculate about ideas that have no basis in reality.
The perinatal region of the unconscious contains the
memories of what the fetus experienced in the consecutive stages of
the birth process, including all the emotions and physical sensations
involved.
How does he know what a fetus experiences emotionally? Again he has this obsession with the new word he made up perinatal. He is utterly obsessed by this concept. I think I can understand why I have had experiences of my birth or my emergence into consciousness induced by anesthetics. But that doesn't mean I can claim that I know what goes on in the mind of a fetus.
As I mentioned earlier, this matrix is related to the stage of
birth when the cervix is open and the fetus experiences the tedious
propulsion through the birth canal. This stage is associated with the
emergence of the shadow side of human personality – murderous
violence and excessive or deviant sexual drives, scatological
elements, and even satanic imagery. It is easy to see manifestations
of these aspects of the death rebirth process in today’s troubled
world.
We certainly see the enormous unleashing of the aggressive
impulse in the many wars and revolutionary upheavals in the world,
in the rising criminality, terrorism, and racial riots. Equally
dramatic and striking is the lifting of sexual repression and freeing
of the sexual impulse in both healthy and problematic ways. Sexual
experiences and behaviors are taking unprecedented forms, as
manifested in the sexual freedom of adolescents, premarital sex,
gay liberation, general promiscuity, common and open marriages,
high divorce rate, overtly sexual books, plays and movies,
sadomasochistic experimentation, and many others.
Yes so he seems to forget about the millions of children who are born of C sections. What are they all free of violent impulses? Where does he get the idea that the violence of childbirth is associated with repressed violent and sexual urges? Its so stupid. Maybe he should climb back into his mothers womb and shut up about it.
The demonic element is also becoming increasingly manifest
in the modern world. Renaissance of satanic cults and witchcraft,
popularity of books and horror movies with occult themes, and
crimes with satanic motivations attest to that fact.
He also seems to forget that the culture who is claiming is so wise and can see into the future had a horrific religion that practiced human sacrifice but at the same time he critisizes modern culture for making horror movies? Does anyone else see the sheer lack of consistency in the arguments that Grof makes?
Deep motivating forces underlying these dangerous traits of
human nature have their origin on the perinatal and transpersonal
levels of the psyche, domains that mainstream psychology does not
yet recognize (Grof 2000).
There is a reason its not recognized. First of all transpersonal experiences are not necessarily being interpreted correctly. Infact any modern neuroscience argument would make hash browns of his argument as there are many explanations for how a human can experience such a thing without having to rely on perinatal explanations of anything.
Again he seems to forget that millions of children are born by C section.
As the content of the perinatal level of the unconscious
emerges into consciousness and is integrated, the individuals
involved undergo radical personality changes. They experience
considerable decrease of aggression and become more peaceful,
comfortable with themselves, and tolerant of others.
He makes this claim without clinically significant data. Psychedelic and altered states have a role to play in psychological treatment. But Grof seems to think that the result is always the same while ignoring the thousands of people whose psyche was damaged by psychedelic experiences they couldn't handle.
It becomes obvious that our highest priorities as biological
creatures have to be clean air, water, and soil. No other concerns,
such as economic profit, military pursuits, scientific and
technological progress, or ideological and religious beliefs, should
be allowed to take priority over this vital imperative.
Again he reveals his ignorance and one sided view on reality. Scientific and technological progress are making it possible to have clean air water and soil. Lets take the major human waste product: sewage. Without the development of sewage treatment (a scientific advance) we would be living with extremely dirty and unsafe water systems. Without scientific progress we would still be doing slash and burn agriculture and experiencing wide spread famine every time the weather was unfavorable.
We begin
to understand that what we experience as material reality might be
what the Hindu teachings refer to as lila – divine play created by
cosmic consciousness.
I have a lot to say about the myth of cosmis consciousness but I have already discussed it extensively in other threads such as end of spiritualism thread.
The isolation and chemical identification of the active
principles of many psychedelic plants, development of new
synthetic psychedelic compounds, and increasing knowledge about
these substances have been instrumental in inner transformation of
many individuals who have used these powerful tools wisely and
responsibly.
Again a technological innovation which he seemed so distrustful of a few pages back.
The resulting emotional turmoil seems to engender
spontaneous psychospiritual crises (“spiritual emergencies”)(Grof
and Grof 1989, Grof and Grof 1990).
He cites himself twice in a row. This should show how psychology does not recognize spiritual emergencies as legit descriptions of psychological illness.
Once mainstream
psychiatrists recognize that these states have an extraordinary
healing and transformative potential - if they are properly
understood - and provide support and guidance for this process
rather than suppress it by tranquilizers, it could greatly contribute to
inner transformation of many people.
This draws on one of my central criticisms of Grof. He and others like him are part of the reason that mainstream psychology has a difficult time with changing its attitude towards psychedelic drugs. Any unbiased psychologist who goes to a conference and listens to someone like Grof talk about his version of how psychedelic drugs heal people (by making them reexperience and accept the violent trauma of birth and a bunch of other archetypical nonsense) they will be immediately turned off. They will clearly recognize the inconsistencies that I have pointed out in his reasoning. He also sounds a lot like Sigmund Freud except on acid instead of cocaine.
Psychedelic drugs have tremendous value but when they are described in a way and their value is described in a way that is only compatable with those who have spiritual beliefs that are similar to Grof's how can we expect mainstream science to change its attitude against them? Only when psychedelic experiences and their benefits are looked at objectively will the neccessary evidence be there to force the mainstream to change its mind. This is already happening with medical marijuana for example. Data being generated by real scientists is changing not only the publics mind but also the minds of the regulators and medical boards.
This is where I will end my criticism of Grof.
Bufoman- that's interesting to hear, thanks.
