quantumtantra
Established member
After many years I finally breakthrough again, reflecting and talking with some friends we constructed this dialogue that translates the zeitgeist of the moment in my life with this new DMT experiences
# THE MADMAN AND GROF
## A Theatrical Dialogue
[Setting: A liminal space between two worlds - part consulting room, part mountain precipice. On one side, an analyst's chair, on the other, emptiness and open sky. THE MADMAN dances on the edge of the abyss, with his bundle on his back and a dog at his feet. GROF sits in his chair, watching with scientific interest and compassion.]
*MADMAN: *(spinning on the edge of the precipice, laughing) Hello, doctor of the depths! I see you are comfortable in your chair of certainty. Have you ever tried dancing here with me, where the next step may be the last... or the first?
*GROF: *(smiling) Interesting question. In my research on non-ordinary states of consciousness, I have discovered that this line between the last and the first step is more tenuous than we imagine. Death and birth are two sides of the same experience.
*MADMAN: *(stopping spinning, interested) So you know the secret too! That wisdom does not come from accumulating, but from letting go! (shakes his bundle) I carry everything I need, which is almost nothing. And you, doctor, what do you carry in your academic bags?
*GROF*: I carry observations from thousands of inner journeys. In holotropic states, I have seen people reliving their births, their deaths, experiences of past lives, of ancestors, of cosmic consciousness. What you find fascinating, my friend, is that your dance on the edge of the abyss is not madness - it is an ancient wisdom that our culture has forgotten.
*MADMAN: *(sits down, suddenly serious) Past lives? Ancestors? Oh, doctor, how complicated! Look at my dog here - (points to the dog) - he doesn't worry about yesterday or tomorrow. He bites my shin when I'm about to fall for real. The rest is just... wind on the wings of a bird.
*GROF: *(leaning forward) Your dog reminds me of what we call "inner radar" in holotropic breathwork. When we let go of rational control, something wiser takes over. You call it a dog, others call it intuition, or body wisdom.
*LOUCO: *(laughing again) Ho-lo-tropic breathwork! What a fancy name for something as simple as breathing! I breathe, therefore I dance. I dance, therefore I exist. Or do I not exist? It doesn't matter! (jumps to his feet) You know what's funny, doctor? You create methods to get to where I already am.
*GROF: *(thoughtfully) There is wisdom in what you say. Our therapeutic methods are, in a sense, maps to help people find a territory that has always been within them. But not everyone was born with the freedom that you carry, friend Louco. Some are trapped in negative perinatal matrices, traumas that they cannot process.
*MAD: *(makes a sympathetic face) Peri matrices... oh, never mind. Listen, wiseass doctor: men build labyrinths, then cry because they are lost. (points to the sky) The sky has no doors, no walls. Why do we insist on building ceilings?
*GROF: *(smiling) To protect themselves from the vastness. The limitless both fascinates and terrifies. In experiences with LSD or holotropic breathwork, many people encounter this vastness that you know so well and, at first, feel terror. The ego fears its own dissolution.
*MAD: *(pretending to tremble with fear) "Oooh, I'm dissolving!" (laughs again) But dissolving is delicious, doctor! Like ice cream in the summer. Sweet, refreshing and inevitable. Why resist?
*GROF*: Because we have been conditioned to believe that we are only our egos. In my studies, I have classified four levels of experience: the sensory, the biographical-recollective, the perinatal, and the transpersonal. You seem to inhabit the transpersonal levels comfortably, where the boundaries of the self dissolve.
*LOUCO: *(climbing a rock) Levels, categories, classifications! You love to put life into boxes, don't you? But look at this wildflower (plucks a small flower growing in the crevice of the rock) - which category does it fit into? Is it sensory? Is it transpersonal? Or is it just... beauty?
*GROF: *(observing the flower with interest) In fact, it can be all of these things simultaneously. What we call reality is multidimensional. Your flower can trigger biographical memories in one person, perinatal experiences in another, and archetypal visions in a third. Beauty is the access point to all these dimensions.
*MADMAN: *(impressed, in a rare display of seriousness) Hmmm... maybe you're not as square as your chair suggests, Doctor. Maybe you've danced on the edge of the abyss too?
*GROF: *(with a distant look) I haven't just danced on the edge of the abyss, my friend. I've dove into it. In my own experiences with expanded states of consciousness, I've encountered the primordial void, the cosmic matrix, the terror of annihilation, and the ecstasy of liberation. Only then have I been able to create maps to help others navigate.
*MADMAN: *(clapping his hands enthusiastically) Bravo! Confessions of a Mad Scientist! So we're brothers in the journey, just in different shoes. Me with my bare feet, you with your academic shoes.
*GROF: *(laughing) An accurate analogy. And perhaps complementary. Your way of being inspires those who are ready to see, and my maps help those who are not yet ready to let go of their certainties all at once.
*MADMAN: *(returning to the edge of the cliff) Do you know what's ironic, doctor? You create systems to explain what cannot be explained, and I destroy explanations to reveal what has always been there. And in the end... (makes a broad gesture with his hands) we arrive at the same place.
*GROF*: The serpent biting its own tail. The end that is the beginning. You represent the Fool archetype in the tarot - zero, unlimited potential, the beginning and the end of the cycle. In transpersonal psychology, we recognize that we need both structure and dissolution.
*MADMAN: *(preparing to jump) Well, that was a lovely conversation, doctor of the inner abysses. But the wind is calling and my dog is impatient. (to the dog) Isn't that right, my friend? The road awaits!
*GROF*: Before I go, I have a question: what would you say to those who are afraid to take that leap into the unknown?
*MADMAN: *(thinking for a moment, with rare solemnity) I would say that there is no leap, because there is no separation. The abyss they fear is only the space between two thoughts. The fall that terrifies them is only the abandonment of who they think they are. (smiles mischievously again) And I would also say: fear is only excitement without proper breathing. Perhaps you can teach them that, with your ho-lo-tropic methods!
*GROF: *(standing up and making a small bow) I will take your message. Madness and wisdom are two sides of the same coin.
*MADMAN: *(already in the air, suspended as if floating) And the coin, dear doctor, is only a symbol for something that has no price!
[MADMAN vanishes into thin air, his laughter echoing. The dog looks at GROF as if sharing a secret, then follows his master in the leap. GROF remains standing, on the border between his office and the abyss, contemplating the empty space with a mixture of scientific admiration and spiritual amazement.]
*END*
# THE MADMAN AND GROF
## A Theatrical Dialogue
[Setting: A liminal space between two worlds - part consulting room, part mountain precipice. On one side, an analyst's chair, on the other, emptiness and open sky. THE MADMAN dances on the edge of the abyss, with his bundle on his back and a dog at his feet. GROF sits in his chair, watching with scientific interest and compassion.]
*MADMAN: *(spinning on the edge of the precipice, laughing) Hello, doctor of the depths! I see you are comfortable in your chair of certainty. Have you ever tried dancing here with me, where the next step may be the last... or the first?
*GROF: *(smiling) Interesting question. In my research on non-ordinary states of consciousness, I have discovered that this line between the last and the first step is more tenuous than we imagine. Death and birth are two sides of the same experience.
*MADMAN: *(stopping spinning, interested) So you know the secret too! That wisdom does not come from accumulating, but from letting go! (shakes his bundle) I carry everything I need, which is almost nothing. And you, doctor, what do you carry in your academic bags?
*GROF*: I carry observations from thousands of inner journeys. In holotropic states, I have seen people reliving their births, their deaths, experiences of past lives, of ancestors, of cosmic consciousness. What you find fascinating, my friend, is that your dance on the edge of the abyss is not madness - it is an ancient wisdom that our culture has forgotten.
*MADMAN: *(sits down, suddenly serious) Past lives? Ancestors? Oh, doctor, how complicated! Look at my dog here - (points to the dog) - he doesn't worry about yesterday or tomorrow. He bites my shin when I'm about to fall for real. The rest is just... wind on the wings of a bird.
*GROF: *(leaning forward) Your dog reminds me of what we call "inner radar" in holotropic breathwork. When we let go of rational control, something wiser takes over. You call it a dog, others call it intuition, or body wisdom.
*LOUCO: *(laughing again) Ho-lo-tropic breathwork! What a fancy name for something as simple as breathing! I breathe, therefore I dance. I dance, therefore I exist. Or do I not exist? It doesn't matter! (jumps to his feet) You know what's funny, doctor? You create methods to get to where I already am.
*GROF: *(thoughtfully) There is wisdom in what you say. Our therapeutic methods are, in a sense, maps to help people find a territory that has always been within them. But not everyone was born with the freedom that you carry, friend Louco. Some are trapped in negative perinatal matrices, traumas that they cannot process.
*MAD: *(makes a sympathetic face) Peri matrices... oh, never mind. Listen, wiseass doctor: men build labyrinths, then cry because they are lost. (points to the sky) The sky has no doors, no walls. Why do we insist on building ceilings?
*GROF: *(smiling) To protect themselves from the vastness. The limitless both fascinates and terrifies. In experiences with LSD or holotropic breathwork, many people encounter this vastness that you know so well and, at first, feel terror. The ego fears its own dissolution.
*MAD: *(pretending to tremble with fear) "Oooh, I'm dissolving!" (laughs again) But dissolving is delicious, doctor! Like ice cream in the summer. Sweet, refreshing and inevitable. Why resist?
*GROF*: Because we have been conditioned to believe that we are only our egos. In my studies, I have classified four levels of experience: the sensory, the biographical-recollective, the perinatal, and the transpersonal. You seem to inhabit the transpersonal levels comfortably, where the boundaries of the self dissolve.
*LOUCO: *(climbing a rock) Levels, categories, classifications! You love to put life into boxes, don't you? But look at this wildflower (plucks a small flower growing in the crevice of the rock) - which category does it fit into? Is it sensory? Is it transpersonal? Or is it just... beauty?
*GROF: *(observing the flower with interest) In fact, it can be all of these things simultaneously. What we call reality is multidimensional. Your flower can trigger biographical memories in one person, perinatal experiences in another, and archetypal visions in a third. Beauty is the access point to all these dimensions.
*MADMAN: *(impressed, in a rare display of seriousness) Hmmm... maybe you're not as square as your chair suggests, Doctor. Maybe you've danced on the edge of the abyss too?
*GROF: *(with a distant look) I haven't just danced on the edge of the abyss, my friend. I've dove into it. In my own experiences with expanded states of consciousness, I've encountered the primordial void, the cosmic matrix, the terror of annihilation, and the ecstasy of liberation. Only then have I been able to create maps to help others navigate.
*MADMAN: *(clapping his hands enthusiastically) Bravo! Confessions of a Mad Scientist! So we're brothers in the journey, just in different shoes. Me with my bare feet, you with your academic shoes.
*GROF: *(laughing) An accurate analogy. And perhaps complementary. Your way of being inspires those who are ready to see, and my maps help those who are not yet ready to let go of their certainties all at once.
*MADMAN: *(returning to the edge of the cliff) Do you know what's ironic, doctor? You create systems to explain what cannot be explained, and I destroy explanations to reveal what has always been there. And in the end... (makes a broad gesture with his hands) we arrive at the same place.
*GROF*: The serpent biting its own tail. The end that is the beginning. You represent the Fool archetype in the tarot - zero, unlimited potential, the beginning and the end of the cycle. In transpersonal psychology, we recognize that we need both structure and dissolution.
*MADMAN: *(preparing to jump) Well, that was a lovely conversation, doctor of the inner abysses. But the wind is calling and my dog is impatient. (to the dog) Isn't that right, my friend? The road awaits!
*GROF*: Before I go, I have a question: what would you say to those who are afraid to take that leap into the unknown?
*MADMAN: *(thinking for a moment, with rare solemnity) I would say that there is no leap, because there is no separation. The abyss they fear is only the space between two thoughts. The fall that terrifies them is only the abandonment of who they think they are. (smiles mischievously again) And I would also say: fear is only excitement without proper breathing. Perhaps you can teach them that, with your ho-lo-tropic methods!
*GROF: *(standing up and making a small bow) I will take your message. Madness and wisdom are two sides of the same coin.
*MADMAN: *(already in the air, suspended as if floating) And the coin, dear doctor, is only a symbol for something that has no price!
[MADMAN vanishes into thin air, his laughter echoing. The dog looks at GROF as if sharing a secret, then follows his master in the leap. GROF remains standing, on the border between his office and the abyss, contemplating the empty space with a mixture of scientific admiration and spiritual amazement.]
*END*