Dislike of dmt as a defence for the ego.

[Flys on syd]

This is not to be a judgemental thing. My dad has issues, he eats unhealthy, he road rages, he is overly quick to punch someone and he is a narcissist. With the experiences I've had with dmt and changa Ive drastically altered my life style and it has broken up my patterns and habits in a way that has been so healing. addiction and habit breaking , and it's brought me towards mindfulness. I feel as though changa would do amazing things for him. I believe it really could substantially help him lead a healthier happier life. HOWEVER, he will do lsd with me, it seems only to sometimes become introspective if you are on a huge dose or are interested in self discovery. He never seems to get much from lsd and usually will binge drink while on it.

My point is, I believe his ego has set up a defence mechanism and it is terified of being destroyed. When I tell him of the amazing work changa has done for me, and I suggest how bennificial it can be for him possibly. He uses phrases like, if a drug takes me there I don't respect it. He says he doesn't want an intense flash high and to be like a heroin state for 5 minutes or so. Comparing dmt to strong opiate and downer drugs. He uses this word "drug" to dismiss the substance as simply a high. He doesn't need any more highs he says. And has no interest in being that high.

I believe he knows it's not like that. I believe he is his ego. No distinction between the self and self of the ego. I believe his ego pushes this thing away and there can be no way to phrase it in which would dispay to him how he is dismissing a magical amazng substance with so much potential to heal him as a flash air duster type imaginary you're getting fucked up high.

 

[Northerner]

Some people just aren't ready for DMT. Some people will never be ready for it and the only thing it will ever do for them is induce a traumatic experience.

Overly aggressive people are normally just a product of emotional defense mechanisms. They do not want to face their issues. DMT certainly doesn't sound like a pleasant experience for this type of personality.

Whether or not it would be beneficial for them in the long run is called into question. Probably not, if they did not really agree to the experience emotionally.

It's not really a magic medicine after all. Only a tool, disguised as a magic medicine.

 

[Metashaman]

Have him look at Ayahuasca videos, imho it offers way more introspection than a "smoalked breakthrough". It is longer, there is no need to take a third hit, once you drink you have purchased the ticket and really are on on the ride.

Aya may not tell him all of those things, it will try to get to the negative things that "are not serving" him that are highest priority (I like the way Graham Hancock puts that) and I believe that even at the lower dosages where you get to be with your subconscious, 1 time can be lifechanging. It was for me.

At first it was addictions, then forced me to dig into philosophy to learn how to debate rather than the rage you see now-a-days. Then made me work on my health and my anger, then my family, now it's smaller things and letting go..

I am glad you love your father enough to care. Aya isn't for everyone and Northerner has a really valid point. "One of many mothers" as I call her is truly the most healing even I've ever experienced (over 12 times now in the appropriate countries with what I consider to be true chapibos).

If not aya maybe mushrooms as they are close to LSD as far as "older people" compare -(I am getting near the "get off my lawn" stage now).


Please read Ayahuasca warnings and MAOI and RIMA warnings when suggesting anything with an MAOI***

brother, good luck!

 

[DmnStr8]

So play on his ego. Tell him he couldn't handle it anyway. Tell him he is a chicken. It's only five minutes. Tell him he is scared, and you were man enough to do it.

 

[Flys on syd]

Northerner brings up very valid points and I respect ad appreciate you're opinion on it. Thank you for the response. I can 100 percent see what you mean.

 

[Flys on syd]

"it will try to get to the negative things that "are not serving" him that are highest priority (I like the way Graham Hancock puts that) and I believe that even at the lower dosages where you get to be with your subconscious, 1 time can be lifechanging. It was for me."
This is why I feel so passionate towards him having a more accepting idea of it. I care for him and would prefer him be healthier and live longer and happier . He has many aspects of himself that are self destructive.
He really is an intelligent person but he is muddied up from the trials of life. He also does not care for the mushroom high. I believe it's because it's less recreational and more ego shattering. He hasn't done them but has seen me have some experiences. He likes lsd purely as a recreational fun time drug. I don't really want to waste more lsd on him if he's gonna get drunk and take it lol!that's very cool you've had so many experiences with aya. Thank you for your response brother.
And yes, I thoroughly understand the risks involved with maoi and know my.dad.very well he does not use any medications that would cause issue with maoi. And I wouldnt offer him it while he was drinking.

 

[Flys on syd]

@damstr8 that is very funny it might work aha it's not about trickery though I'd like for him to decide upon it based on knowledge and trust in the substance.

 

[Flys on syd]

I so love this community

 

[tseuq]

Ahoi flys on syd,

it seems that the only one who is struggling is you. No one needs to change or do anything, least is taking or giving someone a drug!!! :!:

@DmnStr8; Do you think that this "play" beneficially contributes to a good set for a (spiritual) experience? :?:

Spoiler

.. better talk him into 5-MeO .. :twisted:

It's not really a magic medicine after all. Only a tool, disguised as a magic medicine.

:thumb_up: I totally resonate with this. It is not the thing itself, it is the user and her/his intention behind who provides sincerity, openness and ulitmately meaning.

@fly; Take out the pressure, acceptance and understanding for one and each other is support enough, no reason to feel bad, quilty or responsible. If someone is looking for a change, it is all here.

Welcome to the nexus, tseuq

 

[5A8R3]

So play on his ego. Tell him he couldn't handle it anyway. Tell him he is a chicken. It's only five minutes. Tell him he is scared, and you were man enough to do it.

Seen a few people, including myself, bottle it before the breakthrough hit.
I can imagine if you try to trick him this would happen and he might come so close to ego death but not and then be fighting for his ego so hard it will hurt.

Fun post but people can only learn when they are ready to.

My dad also has quite self destructive tendencies. I spent a long time understanding this and seeing it in myself. What the DMT spirit showed me is the irrelevance of time in this matter. Remember, it's all a cycle and no one achieves everything in one go. I can forgive myself now for repeating mistakes because I remember in my trips that I come back to the same point with a little more. Maybe consciously I wont see this 'little more' but now I have faith it exist so I am more patient with myself and others.

The cycle my friend. It's beautiful, funny, seems like a cruel joke at first but really there is nothing you can do about it.

The Matrix quotes come to me all the time when integrating trips. "You already made the choice, now you are here to understand it"

 

[Doc Buxin]

It's not really a magic medicine after all. Only a tool, disguised as a magic medicine.

:thumb_up: I totally resonate with this. It is not the thing itself, it is the user and her/his intention behind who provides sincerity, openness and ulitmately meaning.

@fly; Take out the pressure, acceptance and understanding for one and each other is support enough, no reason to feel bad, quilty or responsible. If someone is looking for a change, it is all here.

Welcome to the nexus, tseuq

All this^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Yes, yes & yes again.

Every human being, every soul (if you will) is ultimately responsible for their own mind, body & soul.

You can love someone, show kindness towards them and try to be the best version of you that you can be, but when it all comes down to it, you can't truly help anyone with the state of their soul, which is who they are at the core and have been since the beginning of time (if there ever was such a thing).

It may take them several, or several hundred, or several thousand more lifetimes and soul-merry-go-rounds to get to the point where they realize that the ego is simply a scaffolding for building the cathedral that is the soul and that once you've built a beautiful cathedral, they can put their tool (ego) away because the tool is not the Thing of Infinite Beauty that is created by the skillful craftsman (a finely-tuned mind that knows the ego is but a tool to be used wisely).

This is one way to look at it out of infinite ways. It is offered with the most loving intentions.

May you find your Peace Flys on cyd.

 

[5A8R3]

The taoist sages said the only good wisdom is practical wisdom. This ego thing is about practicality in my view. It creates a finite bordered concept of the self to allow the mind to efficienly trade/communicate with external reality. It is like money: the concept of giving something value is purely practical and ultimately an illusion we have created to more efficiently swap information.
So I agree, with the principle meditation has taught me to observe without judgement of good or bad, that to judge the ego as good or bad could lead to destructive behaviour. It is obviously needed at this point in the human psychic evolution. I don't fully know why but I have to be grateful it is there. DMT has simply helped remind me to be mindful of it.

Reading everyone's posts here makes me proud of humanities quest for wisdom.
At the same time it is fucking mad that this earnest quest for truth is effectively hidden here, while the masses feed on the shallow indulgences that is the current status quo.
I dreamed a dream...

 

[DmnStr8]

@DmnStr8; Do you think that this "play" beneficially contributes to a good set for a (spiritual) experience? :?:

This person is taking LSD and binge drinking. He is an observed quick tempered narcissist. This person has been offered DMT from his offspring. DMT is dancing on his doorstep and yet he turns away. Likely this person will turn away from this because I think this person wants to remain in this ego driven state. So be it. This is a grown man that is fully capable of making his own decisions. What I recommended was not trickery. This person sounds like they need a wake up call. A little taughting will not affect this kind of person as a trick. It is just waking them up more.

I feel that this person will benefit from the DMT experience no matter what this person experiences during the trip. Be it ego death or just pretty patterns. The more exposure to psychedelics, the more this person will wake up from destructive patterns. Binge drinking on LSD is a good indication that this person is conflicted. Blocking the LSD with excessive drinking, I feel, is a way to cope with what is coming into this persons mind.

So yeah... I say still tell your dad that he is a chicken.. hell.. tell him I said it. He can't binge drink DMT. It is a sure fire way into another way of thinking that may very well stick with him forever. I do feel that any exposure that this person has to DMT will be beneficial. I don't care about spiritual. I just care about another perspective to be had. His offspring is offering it to him so it is right there. Someone feels there father should partake so a little ego nudge is not going to do any harm. Like I said.. this person is a grown man and can make their own decisions. It's not trickery.. it's just pushing the an over abundant ego towards something different.

Meh.. Would love to hear what your dad has to say to all of this... read it to him.

 

[Electro Monk]

soon 15 years ago i was in a hospital because i had a depression. being in a hospital with a depression means you can try many psycho-pharmaceutical products.

one drug we tried for two or three days was supposed to stabilize my mood. it made me more relaxed, and less on my toes. less aggressive in a way.
i REALLY hated that stuff. i felt so vulnerable!


to go back to the dad, sometimes there is strength in flaws.


b:
i recently pondered a very similar problem. i was - still am - convinced that dmt or even lsd could help my mother with her ptsd.

in the end i decided i could not suggest her *in any way* to try it.

the reason is simple. yes the dangers are vastly exaggerated. but still there ARE dangers. could i live with myself if i harmed my mother by suggesting her an unapproved, unresearched "cure" i do not really know all that much about?



to sum it up:

do i think an ayahuasca experience could help your father? yes i do.
but at witch price?
there is the immense risk that you harm your father. this could damage your relation beyond any repair.
plus, even if it would work out, and your father came out of it reformed and without a grunge, it just is very possible that he would just not be able to function anymore.


my 5c

 

[Flys on syd]

Tseuq, your answer frustrates me to me honest. I understand what you mean because ya I'm obviously on here talking about it. I want to establish that I'm not like mad at him, or giving some ultimatum. I do slightly struggle when trying to explain my point of view to him, I want to express my case and have him understand it without stigma effecting the truth of the matter. I don't lose sleep over it. He doesn't need anything I never said he does. I believe all I'm saying is it could be very healing for him, and I'd like to present him with it in a clear way so he understands my view. I am not saying my.view is the correct view. It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. I see unhealthy thought patterns and self destructive tendencies as struggling with ones own phylosophy. Having a mentality that doesn't serve you in my opinion is unhealthy and a struggle. I believe mentality and phylosophy can be developed aND healed to better serve the owner. I believe psychedelics can help people do that very thing.

 

[Flys on syd]

I do agree however that acceptance is important and to simply be the best me I can be towards him
That is sound advice and I appreciate it.

 

[Flys on syd]

Something needs to be said for the lack of relevance of the word drug. The spectrum of what drugs could mean in so vast that the word is essentially void of meaning. It could be indogenious release of cannabinois during a run or meth. Both are drugs. To discredit an idea simply by emphasizing the fact it's a drug is an empty argument

 

[tseuq]

.. all I'm saying is it could be very healing for him,.. I see unhealthy thought patterns and self destructive tendencies as struggling with ones own phylosophy. ... I believe psychedelics can help people do that very thing.

Yes, I guess it is all possible.

The idea behind my posting is, that this all happens WITHOUT the need and call for help from the subject of observation. I can understand the feeling and idea of "caring and doing good" to our beloved ones and all I can do is provide information, like you obviously did, and best quality in any terms.

Like I said, I would take out the pressure, maybe there is also some reactance going on.

Something needs to be said for the lack of relevance of the word drug.

To me, the word drug is free of connotation with which I want to emphasize or discredit your idea. It just describes...

.. any substance (other than food that provides nutritional support) that, when inhaled, injected, smoked, consumed, absorbed via a patch on the skin, or dissolved under the tongue causes a temporary physiological (and often psychological) change in the body.

In pharmacology, a drug is a chemical substance of known structure, other than a nutrient of an essential dietary ingredient, which, when administered to a living organism, produces a biological effect.

Psychoactive drugs are chemical substances that affect the function of the central nervous system, altering perception, mood or consciousness.

tseuq

 

[Doc Buxin]

I do agree however that acceptance is important and to simply be the best me I can be towards him
That is sound advice and I appreciate it.

From what you're stating right here^^^^^^^^^^^ it seems to me that you've got your head on totally straight and are simply coming from a perspective of love and compassion.

I not only commend that, but totally relate to it also.

While there is no easy answer to your OP (of course), we do have all of eternity to figure it out, so no worries. Unresolved karmic relationships don't just end once one particular lifetime is finished...I continually have to remind myself of this over and over, and it's one of the most important things that psychedelic compounds have "taught" me...Like it or not (which, of course, is an ego function) we've got forever.

Remembering this helps me to slow down, be gentle, take time, notice beauty, be thorough, not worry too much when life tends to throw me a curve-ball (which happens a lot, especially on a farm)...

"Nature never hurries, yet everything is accomplished".

(I'm pretty sure this quote has been attributed to Lao Tzu)

 

[Flys on syd]

Some people just aren't ready for DMT. Some people will never be ready for it and the only thing it will ever do for them is induce a traumatic experience.

Overly aggressive people are normally just a product of emotional defense mechanisms. They do not want to face their issues. DMT certainly doesn't sound like a pleasant experience for this type of personality.

Whether or not it would be beneficial for them in the long run is called into question. Probably not, if they did not really agree to the experience emotionally.

It's not really a magic medicine after all. Only a tool, disguised as a magic medicine.

Very well said amigo.