DMT and enlightenment

[CosmicRiver]

I have no idea how people can have these mind blowing awesome experiences on DMT, like me, and then somehow convince themselves that having this experience should be normal and not wonder why they aren't having a better time somewhere else. They usually come up with some doublespeak answer that defies the very reality they are forced to indulge in for 99.9% of their lives by attributing some value to it that requires putting blinders on to everything else... But somewhere deep down, I suspect that they know that rocks are not cake no matter how much they try to eat rocks and enjoy it...

i used to think the same and you could apply it to all drugs but honestly now in the moments in which i enjoy sober life i don't think i'm deluding myself. there are definitely moments in sober life that are just as enjoyable as dmt is. and life appears low-grade probably just because we are used to it. imagine experiencing the world for the first time when you were born. that's one of the reasons for the emphasis on mindfulness and living 100% in the present moment

 

[Here&Now]

I think the most fruitful approach is to reflect on the common points of our respective goals and support each other at them. The frequently heated discussions on what goal is The Goal and what path is The Path pull everyone involved away from their goals and paths.

The Nexus is generally quite good at avoiding this, so this is just something I wanted to point out.

Agreed, this can become an awful trap that leads to useless bickering. I've seen it on other forums dabbling in spirituality, and it ends up dominating the conversation and hindering any meaningful discussion.

The Nexus does stand apart in this way. I think it's partially because some of the folks are actual chemists and scientists, so there's a higher intellectual development at play that probably attracts a certain type of member.

 

[isai_dreams]

es como si una inteligencia basta mas alla de la comprension humana la hubiera implantado aqui en la tierra, como una gema que nadie sabe de ella (experiencia dmt) y alguien la descubre pero esa persona es la correcta para operar y sabeer como funciona (aborigenes, etnias de la tierra, zapotecas, mayas, etc) y con eso lograr a llegar a la consiencia universal a esa inteligencia universal quien nos deja pistas para poder llegar a otros reynos para encontrar mas pistas del rompecabezas y poder alcanzar pequeños velos de su atuendo y comer a cucharadas pequeñas diminutas parte de su ser, solo con una diminuta parte de lo que asi en tal estado podemos comprender es diminuto pero no quiere decir que inexistente, nos damos cuenta de los reynos superiores e inferiores que eexisten en la consciencia y en el plantea, para mi es un hack del ser humano para darnos cuenta que no somos tan terrenales com creemos y que ahi afuera de nuestra pequeña experiencia hay algo mas grande que inclusive podemos traer a nuestra mente en este instante con una enorme oracion de visualizacion y agradecimiento, peticion con el corazon y te das cuenta que ahi estan esos reynos elevados para todos inclusive sin dmt y sin psicodelicos, pero es tan maravilloso que estos existan y te enseñen caminos que no creias y saber que que hay algo mas que nuestra diminuto personaje o experiencia humana, estos estan como gemas listos para ser usados pero con responsabilidad propia de cualquier cosa que se presente en ese estado escuche hace poco que los psicodelicos no son para aquellos que no conocen los infiernos de uno mismo o no los quiere ver porque ellos te lo mostraran, asi que trabajar en tu interior antes que hacerlo es siempre la mejor opcion, dieta, amate, rie, vive en un viaje fenomenal en este momentosin necesidad de un trip como decimos (una dosis de psicodelicos), vive intensamente, rie como un loco aunque no sea tu mas sincera sonrisa trata de hacerlo, maravillate de tu vida, ve una pintura de van goh o de algun artista visionario como alex grey, la vida es dmt la prueba esta en que tenemos dentro de nuestro ser vivo dmt, despues de conocerte ve a las profundidades de estos reynos de psicodelia.

 

[northape]

So many philosophies and descriptions, but from a practitioner's point of view, they blur into unity.
Words are just pointers to the moon. Yes, they have power, and some words have more power than the rest.
However, swimming in a sea of concepts leads nowhere. It's better to go back to basics, to that childhood innocence and awe at Creation.

See, Sages never argue among themselves. They sit in Silence, and there's no need for any philosophy.
Systems of knowledge are for the ego, in order to lead it beyond. And this beyond is non-conceptual.
It's the space where concepts fly and play. So, choose your boat and start rowing TODAY!

 

[Voidmatrix]

Sages never argue among themselves. They sit in Silence, and there's no need for any philosophy.
Systems of knowledge are for the ego, in order to lead it beyond.

In many respects one could say this is because they have the same understanding, and subsequently, the same philosophy. You don't argue in an echo chamber.

Philosophy I'd say is beyond knowledge and is more of a practice of sorts, despite attempts towards knowledge within philosophy. But since knowledge itself can be subsumed by philosophy to the point one can ponder if knowledge is even a thing causes philosophy to be... something else.

One love

Edit: I'm going to leave what I said, but retract it. You're operating in a particular paradigm, and I'm trying to draw it out in a more broad way that may be inappropriate.

 

[blig-blug]

The fish trap exists because of the fish; once you’ve gotten the fish, you can forget the trap. The rabbit snare exists because of the rabbit; once you’ve gotten the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words exist because of meaning; once you’ve gotten the meaning, you can forget the words. Where can I find a man who has forgotten words so I can have a word with him?

 

[s2cndchance]

i used to think the same and you could apply it to all drugs but honestly now in the moments in which i enjoy sober life i don't think i'm deluding myself. there are definitely moments in sober life that are just as enjoyable as dmt is. and life appears low-grade probably just because we are used to it. imagine experiencing the world for the first time when you were born. that's one of the reasons for the emphasis on mindfulness and living 100% in the present moment

I have no way to directly compare the quality of my experience to anyone else's, unfortunately. Asking my friends, they didn't suspect I was sad or depressed, and I don't consider myself to be so either. I also never suspected my sober life of being low-value by comparison until I experienced these things I found to be better. Until I can Vulcan mind-meld, I don't think I can argue any which way.

I can say that I would, in a heartbeat, live the dull mundane everyday office life in the lucid dream or dmt trip than as it is here. (with DMT it doesn't look the same but it can contain the same narrative) The fact that it can offer the same narrative, the same stuff, but with increased quality and/or intensity of feeling is what perplexes me and convinces me that something is either very wrong with me or very wrong with this so-called reality.

Although I always had suspicion from the get go that something was off about this place. Which reminds me of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

“All through my life I've had this strange unaccountable feeling that something was going on in the world, something big, even sinister, and no one would tell me what it was." "No," said the old man, "that's just perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the Universe has that.”

I found this funny and laughed, but often wonder if it just discredits the idea that something really is off about this place.
Since, as for enlightenment what should need to be enlightened if it wasn't hidden from you in the first place? Is it some natural unawareness, or is something else doing the hiding?

 

[premeditated]

Yes, maybe, but honestly, I’m still figuring this out for myself.
Sometimes I wonder if we really need fixed roles like teacher to share wisdom.

Maybe people can simply support each other, without attaching too much to labels.
Even those who teach others, which is incredibly valuable, often learn through the exchange itself.

But I do see that certain people naturally carry experience, clarity, and the ability to point others in the right direction,
that's where having a teach becomes essential, especially when things get confusing.

Perhaps we can also see it as a shared space, where everyone involved keeps practicing and growing together, regardless of formal titles.
As for me, I wouldn’t want to be seen as a teacher.
Sharing thoughts that helped me personally already feels fulfilling on its own.

It is sad, though, to see how concepts like Buddhadharma can get industrialized, losing some of their original meaning.
But I guess that risk exists with almost any idea, once it spreads widely.

Not saying anything you don't know but it's important to look at everyone you encounter as a teacher. I feel like we did this unintentionally in our youth and that's how we grew and cherished every situation. It wasn't until we got older and more arrogant that made us stop welcoming others teachings and perspectives easily. But your definitely right about the labels amd titles encouraging close mindedness.

 

[Skr9]

It depends on the person.
Psychedelic drugs don't change you - they don't change your character - unless you want to be changed. They enable change, they can't impose it...

 

[CosmicRiver]

I have no way to directly compare the quality of my experience to anyone else's, unfortunately. Asking my friends, they didn't suspect I was sad or depressed, and I don't consider myself to be so either. I also never suspected my sober life of being low-value by comparison until I experienced these things I found to be better. Until I can Vulcan mind-meld, I don't think I can argue any which way.

I can say that I would, in a heartbeat, live the dull mundane everyday office life in the lucid dream or dmt trip than as it is here. (with DMT it doesn't look the same but it can contain the same narrative) The fact that it can offer the same narrative, the same stuff, but with increased quality and/or intensity of feeling is what perplexes me and convinces me that something is either very wrong with me or very wrong with this so-called reality.

Although I always had suspicion from the get go that something was off about this place. Which reminds me of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

“All through my life I've had this strange unaccountable feeling that something was going on in the world, something big, even sinister, and no one would tell me what it was." "No," said the old man, "that's just perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the Universe has that.”

I found this funny and laughed, but often wonder if it just discredits the idea that something really is off about this place.
Since, as for enlightenment what should need to be enlightened if it wasn't hidden from you in the first place? Is it some natural unawareness, or is something else doing the hiding?

I could say so many things about this but it would be too long and i'd probably get lost and get off topic, so i'll be brief. Keep in mind that it's just to offer a different perspective if you feel like this thing is preventing you from enjoying life.

I think i know very well what you're talking about, at least in the first part of your post. I started feeling it with something as simple as being high on weed the first times, when it's trippy. With psychedelics this sensation was even stronger of course. I think that "dull" is the english word that better describes how this world felt like to me at the time.

Years have passed since then. Today i was doing something as simple as being in a small stream of water, watching dragonflies perched on twigs dangling at the water's edge. If i had smoked some DMT there it would have been very different, don't know in which way, but not better. I mean that living that moment with a sober mind was 100% worth it and i wouldn't have exchanged that with living the same moment while tripping or while high.
If this isn't familiar with you try to think about how you feel during the afterglow of a psychedelic experience. You're not tripping but reality including yourself has a kind of spark, it's vibrant, it feels like heaven on Earth. This is how it feels like.

I don't live like that all the time. In an office i would definitely not feel like that. I think that's normal and i think that we humans have done much to make this world a hellish place. It's even possible that if tomorrow i go into the same stream watching the dragonflies i won't feel like i felt today. For example today i was with a friend, while maybe if i go alone i won't feel as happy. Tomorrow when i'll go to work i probably won't feel as happy.

So i think it depends both on us and on the external world. But not meaning that the world is inherently bad or that something is off about it. Otherwise it wouldn't be possible to feel like i felt today. There wasn't any less quality or intensity compared to a psychedelic experience, even if i know it might feel impossible or like i'm lying to myself.
But it's ok if you don't feel it. I don't feel it most of the time either. But i know it's possible and i think it's connected to the topic of awakening and living in the present moment. I found out that living in the present moment is literally a door to awakening.
I think that when i saw reality as dull i thought i was living in the present moment but i actually wasn't, because there was this thick grey veil that didn't make me see reality for what it is (here i'm not talking about mundane everyday office life, that's a whole another level).
So yes it's hidden, but discovering it doesn't really mean leaving this reality for another. And in my opinion the hiding is both from natural unawareness and from current societal rules and culture. I find it easier to act on the first; i still haven't really found a solution for the other.