• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

DMT and Lithium - ?

Migrated topic.
Rrryan

Rrryan

Rising Star
Hi DMT Nexus! Been a while.

I developed some symptoms early this year that called for taking Lithium. Huge help. Unfortunately it cannot be combined safely with most/all psychedilics. That's a pretty big bummer. However, I have not seen anything about DMT interactions specifically. So I'm wondering -

Can anyone speak to the safety of combining DMT and Lithium?
 
From a quick search:

Specifically, prolonged use (3 weeks or longer) of serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (such as fluoxetine (Prozac)) or MAO inhibitors (such as phenelzine (Nardil)) will significantly reduce or eliminate the hallucinogenic response to the classic hallucinogens.

In contrast, prolonged use of lithium or tricyclic antidepressants (such as desipramine (Norpramine)) will produce an exacerbation of the hallucinogenic response, often to a very unpleasant degree.

However, acute (single-dose) administration of antidepressants does not appear to have the same effect.
Click to expand...

 
Ufostrahlen said:
From a quick search:

Specifically, prolonged use (3 weeks or longer) of serotonin-reuptake inhibitors (such as fluoxetine (Prozac)) or MAO inhibitors (such as phenelzine (Nardil)) will significantly reduce or eliminate the hallucinogenic response to the classic hallucinogens.

In contrast, prolonged use of lithium or tricyclic antidepressants (such as desipramine (Norpramine)) will produce an exacerbation of the hallucinogenic response, often to a very unpleasant degree.

However, acute (single-dose) administration of antidepressants does not appear to have the same effect.
Click to expand...

http://physiology.elte.hu/gyakorlat/cikkek/hallucinogenic drugs.pdf
Click to expand...
The line about MAOIs make me raise an eyebrows. Taking a RIMA + DMT is what makes Ayahuasca what it is, and a RIMA + psilocybin dials the whole thing up to 11 as well. I know that SSRIs attenuate psychedelic effects because they increase synaptic 5-HT, which competes with the psychedelic, but the MAOI is increasing the synaptic concentrations of both 5-HT and the psychedelic in question, so they overall ratio (and effectiveness) *should* in theory be maintained.

Anywho - Here's some stuff from Erowid about Lithium + LSD
It doesn't say anything about DMT, but LSD + Lithium is generally very bad. Whether the seizures and things are a result of 5-HT activity or dopaminergic activity seems up in the air though.

Erowid LSD (Acid) Vault : LSD and Antidepressants, by Mike

Information on combining LSD and Antidepressants, by Mike.
www.erowid.org

Blessings
~ND
 
Yeah, it was a quick search, always look for more than one source.
 
Personal perspective and complaint against reality really - the incompatibility is frustrating because I have never felt better, being on lithium now. I can only imagine I would have a really good time on a little acid.

Oh well on that. But I'm holding out a little hope that some information will come up about DMT being safe, for some reason.

Thanka for the feedback so far.
 
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Paradoxical effects of lithium on serotonergic receptor function: an immunocytochemical, behavioural and autoradiographic study - PubMed

Lithium is the preferred treatment for bipolar affective disorder, yet its mechanism of action is poorly understood. Our study was designed to investigate the effect of lithium on the 5-HT2A or 5-HT2C (5-HT2A/2C) receptor subtypes, by comparing the consequences of chronic pre-treatment of rats...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Heres a fascinating abstract the title of which is quite telling with its use of the word 'paradoxical'. Although the exact mechanism of lithiums ability to stabilise the mood is not known for sure, its been speculated that it blocks enzymes involved in intracellular signalling thereby reducing second messenger precursor production which prevents the ability of neurones to fire at high rates. This would suggest that lithium would actually reduce the effects of neurotransmitters including those which have G-protein coupled receptors (eg 5HT2, alpha1 (noradrenaline) and some muscarinic acetylcholine subtypes). The paper mentioned demonstrates that lithium enhances the effects of 5HT2a and 2c activation (by DOI in this study) and the mechanism is clearly complex. On this basis I speculate that one might well get an enhanced experience with DMT if one has lithium on board simultaneously and this could well be hazardous in someone who requires lithium treatment for mood stabilisation.
 
Full text

Corpus -- could you maybe explain a little bit about this 'Fos' that they talk about so much?

Blessings
~ND
 

Attachments

  • 1-s20-S0028390898000240-main.pdf
    964 KB · Views: 0
^^FOS is a protein that is coded for by a proto-oncogene called c FOS (a proto-oncogene is a gene which has the potential to turn into a cancer-causing gene);FOS is one of a number of immediate early gene products which can be detected promptly in neurones after receptor activation and has been used as a marker for neuronal activity in studies like the one cited. It interacts with a range of intracellular proteins and enzymes and helps regulate gene expression within the cell and has been implicated in various tumours.
 
Back
Top Bottom