DMT/Ayahuasca Tincture?

[Sabnock]

I've been really wanting to create two separate tinctures, one with Harmalas and one with Mimosa or Acacia extract.

Now, what i'm thinking about doing is getting the freebased Harmalas and using just enough vinegar water to dissolve them/convert them back into salt form (instead of doing a Manske which i failed at last time) and then maybe evaporating the vinegar water and using plain water to soak up the Harmala residue/salts and pour it into a dropper bottle and dilute as needed.

I want to do the same with the Mimosa/Acacia extracts as well, which pretty much just picks up from the freebased oil/goo, dissolving it with a little bit of vinegar water to turn the stuff back into salts, and soak it up with plain water to be put into a dropper bottle and diluted as needed.

What i am wondering is, can i just evaporate the vinegar water from both the Harmalas and Mimosa/Acacia and be left with a residue/salt form? I know the Harmalas should be, but will the DMT and such be too? And shouldn't regular water be able to soak the stuff right on up?

I feel this would be a better way to go for me Ayahuasca wise and DMT Pharma wise rather than to actually have to drink a brew.


Thanks

 

[Vodsel]

At first look, evaporating an aqueous acetates solution is possible although it would take very long, but... are you aware of how nasty would sublingual acetate concentrated tinctures taste?

 

[Sabnock]

Well i wasn't planning on using much vinegar, just enough to acidify some water that can be easily dried under a fan. I'm not aware of how acetates taste, but since i can hopefully make a single dose be 1 or 2 mls, i can just squirt some into my Lemon Balm tea or what not and i don't reckon it'd taste that bad. I know i can do it sublingually too but this would be more for oral use.

 

[Vodsel]

Well i wasn't planning on using much vinegar, just enough to acidify some water that can be easily dried under a fan.

It's not the vinegar that has a strong taste, it's the alkaloids in salt form that taste very bitter.

I know i can do it sublingually too but this would be more for oral use.

And what's the advantage of an oral concentrated tincture compared to pharma? It certainly does not sound easier to prepare, much less to swallow.

 

[Sabnock]

Well the Pharma route i usually just use Moclobemide and take a few capsules of Mimosa powder, however doing it that way isn't very effective as my digestive tract is all funky and the Mimosa powder hasn't been absorbing all that well. And since i make my own Changa anyways, i figured instead of evaporating the oil onto herbs, i could simply convert it back to a salt form for use in a tincture that should kick right on in. I would use the Harmalas in Pharma, but again i'd have to use a tincture instead of a little bit of powder because i have no way of measuring out mgs on my scale, only grams, and most certainly wouldn't wanna take more than i need to lol.

And yeah, i read that the taste of the alkaloids suck, but if it's only a ml or two diluted in a very tasty tea, i don't see it being that big of a deal.

 

[Vodsel]

Personally, I would measure a proper dose of the freebase harmalas and the freebased/salted acacia/mimosa extract, dissolve it in orange juice and gulp it down. Simpler, more pleasant and effective.

Ingesting plant matter such as mimosa powder can be harsh on the gut. The alkaloid citrates (what you will get by dissolving the freebases in OJ) will surely be more gentle and efficient.

 

[Sabnock]

I've actually tried the Harmalas sublingually and found their taste wasn't really all that bad, of course not delicious but pretty managable for me. I even tried putting some DMT enhanced leaf in my mouth but it stung like crap. I'm really wanting to give this tincture thing a try and i realize it's a bit more work, but in the end i'd like to have a clean experience with as little gut issues as possible, and Changa only offers a glimpse whereas Ayahuasca offers you a view and then some lol.

So, if i proceed with this tincture route, will the freebased Acacia/Mimosa extracts turn back into a residue or will they still be an oil, after the vinegar water? I'm hoping it will be a nice scrapable residue. And the Harmalas should be the same too right, a residue rather than an oil?

Thanks

 

[The Day Tripper]

DMT acetates ime are going to be a goo.

Idk about harmala acetates, i think they would be a solid though.

Two things to consider though-

1) why salt it, evaporate, and then add water again when converting your freebase into a tincture?

You can just take distilled water, weigh your freebase, and add enough acid to salt the alkaloids, but not too much. Personally i'd use a dry cyrstalline salt here, not vinegar. It will be more stable long term, taste less nasty, not be a goo if you ever want to evap a dose and put the powder in a cap, and if you sterilize everything, have far less of a chance of bacterial contamination over time.

IE-

Take 1g of your freebase alkaloids, find out the weight of the acid you are going to use, and figure out how much acid you need to salt the dmt/harmalas, so you don't use extra. With fumaric acid and dmt, its something like 25-30% fumaric acid by weight for dmt fumarate (1g of dmt fumarate would have ~750mg dmt, the rest is the fumaric acid). The percentage might be different for harmalas.

Then add your acid to a known amount of distilled water, lets say 750mg of dmt freebase, 7.5ml of water, and 275mg of fumaric acid. Then add your freebase dmt. IT should all dissolve, if not add a few more mgs of fumaric acid until it does. Then boil it in the microwave, in the dropper you plan on storing it in. That way its sterile, and chances are you wont get any contamination.

Do the same for the harmala tincture.

2) its going to be extremely bitter, theres not much that can mask the taste, keep that in mind when thinking you can make it palletable in a tea. Brews have more tannins, and other nasty stuff that makes you nauesaous, but tinctures are not to great tasting or easy to keep down either. I just disssolve my dry salts in water and take shots, chased with fruit juice when i do pharma. Its still pretty naueasous, and with caapi i actually perfer the tea. Mimosa tea i'll pass on though, dmt fumarate in water is much much easier to get down.


Really though, i'd store your alkaloids dry. They won't degrade as fast as in a water solution. Just convert your freebase dmt and harmaloids to a dry salt (citrate, maleate, fumarate are the only dmt salts that stay dry ime). Just look into salting by figuring out the amount of acid you need to freebase, and dissolve them in distilled water and evaporate. No need for fasa, you can get pure salts with a bit of math to know exactly how much acid you need to fully salt the alkaloids, without any excess. With fumaric its ~27%of the weight of your freebase.

Acetates usually are hydroscobic, and will be a goo. Tinctures are prone to contamination, and degradation of the alkaloids in them. Really, i think you should just salt your freebase dmt and harmalas with citric acid or fumaric acid, and get a dry powder to store it as.

Then dissolve that in water to dose when its time. Vinegar (acetates) don't dry very easy, and will pull moisture out of the air in the case of dmt.

Once your tincture gets contaminated, its done. You cant freebase it and recover the alkaloids safely, since the microorganisms may have created toxic compounds that get carried over in an acid base. Belive me, i've had caapi tinctures turn, and it sucks throwing away multiple doses of tincture because of bacterial growth.

 

[jamie]

acetate tincture does not taste too bad to me. I have used sublingual pharma with hcl harmalas under the tongue, followed by chaliponga alkaloids dissolved in acetate tincture many times.

trying to snuff a couple drops of acetate tincture..now that hurts.

 

[Sabnock]

Well, i could perhaps give the citric acid a try, dissolve it in water and use that water to dissolve the freebase. I might actually do a couple extracts and use citric acid on one and vinegar on the other, to see if there's any major differences.

Say, if i were to use citric acid, would i perhaps be able to squeeze a lemon or two on the freebase and have it dissolve? That could go well in with my Lemon Balm tea, if not i'll just buy some citric acid as i see it's fairly cheap.

I'm not all that concerned about the taste of the alkaloids or tincture because my plan is to basically add it to a tea or combination of teas that not only have good tastes to them but i will also be sweetening my teas so as for the taste i don't see it being that big of a deal.

Thanks for the responses y'all, just gotta wait for my Rue seed to get here in a week or so and preform an extract on the Rue and Acacia and i shall hopefully create a pretty good tincture for myself, something the mere thought of get's me all smiley and giddy and excited about lol.

 

[iracema]

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[Sabnock]

I don't extract to crystals, i extract to goo/oil. My extraction is merely doing a water extraction on 100 grams of root bark, filter and evaporate the brew down to just a little bit of liquid and then base with Sodium Carbonate and pull with Acetone or Iso and evaporate to the goo/oil and then redissolve it in more solvent if i wish to evaporate it on herbs or evaporate again if for instance i want to do what i wanna do here and make it into a tincture. And while i could very well evaporate it onto say 25 to 50 grams of herb which i could then measure out and put into capsule form and take it that way, i'm leaning more towards a tincture, preferably with the salt forms though one path i could go down is using Everclear to use the freebase in a tincture. But it's all trial and error for me so i'll figure it out one way or the other.

Speaking of which, which would keep longer, a water based tincture or an alcohol based tincture? I'd imagine the alcohol one would keep longer, though if i keep the water one in the fridge it should keep for awhile i would think.

 

[steppa]

trying to snuff a couple drops of acetate tincture..now that hurts.

I recently made an acetate nasal spray with this tek:

1) Take your dose of DMT and place it in a small shotglass.
2) Mix with enough mildly hot water so that 1 drop will equal 20 mg spice (use more water if needed to dissolve everything).
3) Add a touch of vinegar to convert freebase to acetate (not needed with salt spice).
4) Add a few drops of COCONUT CREAM (not oil, not water)... until solution is cloudy and white.
5) Mix thoroughly and suck it up into an eyedropper.
6) Drop the drops into your nostril while inhaling to spread them over a larger surface of your nasal mucosa.

Worked fine. No burn or pain was observed.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

I don't think you can fit 20mg of dmt in one drop of water.

 

[steppa]

I don't think you can fit 20mg of dmt in one drop of water.

I used about 8 or 9 drops for 100mg but am sure that less would also have been sufficent. I just wanted to have some more liquid.

 

[DoingKermit]

Personally, I would measure a proper dose of the freebase harmalas and the freebased/salted acacia/mimosa extract, dissolve it in orange juice and gulp it down. Simpler, more pleasant and effective.

Ingesting plant matter such as mimosa powder can be harsh on the gut. The alkaloid citrates (what you will get by dissolving the freebases in OJ) will surely be more gentle and efficient.

I have to agree with Vodsel here. Dissolve in OJ to convert it into a salt and chug it down. Much better than the acetate conversion.

 

[Sabnock]

If i were using crystals i probably would just dissolve in OJ and chug, but i'm using the oil therefore it's either Changa or a tincture for me. Besides, i don't have a way of really measuring out my doses in mgs unless i do something like a tincture, with Changa i just load some up in a bowl and start smoking, when i'm good i'm good. How i determine my yield is by evaporating the solvent in a small bowl which is weighed before and after, so when the solvent evaporates away i can tell how much weight it's gained and thus determine my dosages.

Besides, i really like the idea of tinctures for DMT/Harmalas, it seems like a really cool idea to me.

 

[Sabnock]

Say i wanted to use citric acid instead of vinegar, would i be able to squeeze a couple lemons to obtain enough citric acid to convert them back to salt form? If not i'll probably just go buy some citric acid powder.

 

[Sabnock]

Anyone? Bump.

 

[Sabnock]

Thought I'd post an update just cause. I finished my Harmala tincture last night, made using warm vinegar and citric acid dissolving Harmalas extracted from about 350 - 380 grams of Rue seed, about 12 grams worth of pure Harmalas, in a 60ml amber colored glass bottle with a dropper. I estimate that 13 drops of this, will be a full on Harmala dose I'm hoping. It doesn't even taste bad, not that it tastes good but it just tastes like a chewed up pill, and will go tasteless I'm sure in a nice cold cup of sweet tea

I'm still waiting on my Mimosa/Acacia extracts due to me having to switch back to iso alcohol because acetone I've found doesn't pull a full yield, compared to iso, a good difference in yield I'd say. But once it's done I'll do the same for it as well.

All in all I'm happy I went the tincture route, and can't wait to try it. Btw, I've thought about it and decided that from here on out I will be referring to tinctures as elixirs and referring to Ayahuasca as simply Daime as it sounds cooler to me.

I'll update again when the other half of my elixir is completed and I'm able to test it out. One thing I'm wondering though is how well this elixir would work combined into a single cup of tea... I'll have quite a good bit of it so I'll be for sure able to test it out that way. Who knows maybe then I could make a single elixir instead of two separate ones.