DMT Breakthrough Abortion/Bailout

[oldsoul]

Hello everyone,

Is it possible to "psych" yourself out of a breakthrough?

I have been wanting to pose this question for a while but difficult to explain properly what happened so let me give some background.

Note, what I am calling "breakthrough" here is referring to entering hyperspace, and having little to zero sensation of being in a physical body. I think this is the normal usage, but just want to be clear

OK so anyway I extracted some spice, picked up a gvg, experimented with infusing leaf. I experienced breakthrough a few times after much frustration and wasting spice with inefficient smoking methods and sub-breakthrough dose amounts. I thought I had breakthrough dialed in, and I expected with the same dose I would always have it.

Then my last 2 times of vaping, I entered breakthrough for an extremely brief duration but immediately could sense the spice wearing off and returned to my body. The last time, it was an extremely intense "coming up" period, and I thought it would be a heavy breakthrough for sure, but I was wrong.

The interesting thing is, I had in my mind the suggestion I read somewhere to not let yourself become entranced with the patterns and entities and that will allow you to go further. Is it possible this intention to not be entranced cut short the breakthrough / outside the body experience? As soon as I had that thought, it when the breakthrough ended. I know tolerance isn't a factor with DMT so I'm unsure why else it would happen. In each time I got up from my bed and was heavily tripping still, with a lot of OEV and transpersonal "big mind" sensations, so I'm inclined to believe this wasn't just because I didn't make a high enough dose, but perhaps that is all it was.

Having a Non-breakthrough is kind of disorienting and anxiety-rousing, has anybody else noticed that? It is in sharp contrast to the ecstatic feeling of joy and clarity I feel coming back from a true breakthrough.

I am ready to go back in but unsure whether to pack a higher dose, set different intentions or what. What do you guys think, just load more spice?

Alternatively, maybe the spice is getting weaker? I have been using goo from acrb, is it possibly oxidizing & losing strength over time? When compared with a fresh extract, the first pulls of goo I have are now much more liquidey and lighter colored.

Thanks as always and many blessings

 

[olympus mon]

Hello everyone,

Is it possible to "psych" yourself out of a breakthrough?

100% absolutely yes. My partner has this problem each time she has smoked changa with me. For may people, even those versed in the classic Psych's, its not a comfortable feeling of leaving this reality. It can be quiote terrifying or at least nerve racking ti feel yourself leaving your body/mind and not have control over it. Only on extremely high doses os other entheo's such as LSD, and mushrooms does this happen normally.

I can litteraaly watch my girlfriend fight it. I know she properly administered a breakthrough dose and see her eye's get huge, and she searches for my hand and squeezes tightly, the closer she comes to B.T. the harder she squeezes until i whisper, relax babe, just let go, surrender, breathe. Then she loosens her grip begins to smile and starts to leave her body and tenses back up fighting it and stopping the B.T. from taking place.

This is the majority of the suffering felt for new people if they have a not so pleasant exp. Usually its from fighting the medicine. The terror comes from trying to remain in the drivers seat but the substance overpowers the user, hence a terror filled exp.

Letting go is all one has to do to immediately turn a scary exp into a full mind blowing break through.

 

[oldsoul]

Yea it sounds like the same thing. I actually opened my eyes too. But the thing is for me, I wanted, or thought I wanted it. I guess on some level I didn't want it, or I was scared? These experiences were 2 weeks back and I haven't attempted it since, so maybe that is proof!

I have had bad trips on shrooms & acid. I never had a bad trip on DMT, but it has forced me to accept things about myself which aren't necessarily pleasant. However I think it's been psychologically healing. I want the medicine, so how did I block it?!??!

I thought I knew how to let go but maybe not! What does letting go mean to you?

Does the idea "don't become entranced with patterns/entities so you can go deeper" make sense? That is paraphrased from I think a Terrence McKenna quote I read here on someone's autosig. Is this compatible with letting go, or does it apply to a different context?

Thanks!!!!!

 

[Mustelid]

I read a theory here that the difficult mushroom experiences tend to happen at an intermediate dose, where your perceptions are very altered, but there is enough of you left in you to worry about it.

Of course going way overboard isn't going to necessarily be pleasant or productive.

I think this is true for DMT as well, the leaving is the scary part, and sub breakthrough is like a parabolic flight, where the apex is at the leaving stage. You end up maximizing the time you spend in freefall, right in the doorway.

Maybe it annoys them too, in the way your cat annoys you when it decides to sit down and just stay in the front door way, neither in nor out.

 

[olympus mon]

What does letting go mean to you?

Does the idea "don't become entranced with patterns/entities so you can go deeper" make sense?
Thanks!!!!!

Letting go for me takes on different meanings or actions depending on the situation. With DMT letting go means relaxing, allowing myself to be over taken by the effects and accepting what happens without resistance.

Letting go for a difficult ayahausca exp is the same (depending on dose) but the more effective action is total acceptance. Usually the case is some happening or some aspect of me that I determine is bad, dark, or negative. Not wishing to accept and love this part is fighting the exp therefore, in this case, letting go is to LOVE all of me, forgive myself or others, accept my flaws and determine if I can change them.

I understand the second statement quoted above my TM. Its much clearer to grasp this idea discussing Ayahuasca as there are different stages to the exp as well as different types of hallucinations. Visuals give way to visions, and the visions are where the knowledge, learning, and revelations reside. Many people get stuck on the pretty visuals by endlessly focussing upon them but you can or will learn to either toggle back n forth between these different hallucinations or enjoy the pretty lights for a bit but then clock in and get to work in the visionary state. Its this state that communication with things like entities and plant spirits happens or becomes possible.

Not to sound like I'm downing smoked/vaporized DMT butI explained it to a friend as this;

DMT puts on a show for you in hyper multi-faceted dimension. The show may be beautiful, the show may be ugly. It may be informative, it may be up lifting. It may be lots of things but the peak is more or less a mind blowing spectacular show followed by my personal favorite stage, the visionary state.
After the show its the visionary state that feel's like downloading cosmic information and secrets.

 

[oldsoul]

usually the case is some happening, or some aspect of me that I determine is bad, or dark, or negative. Not wishing to accept and love this part is fighting the exp there fore in this case letting go is to LOVE all of me, forgive myself or others, accept my flaws and determine if I can change them.

Yea this was really kind of it. I couldn't have said myself like this, but when I think back to what happened this matches my felt sense very well. A part of me was not completely accepting. You have given me a lot of insight just now, wow this is cool. I'm glad I made this post, I now feel much more confident to go back in with success.

Thank you and many blessing

 

[Psychelexium528Hz*]

What does letting go mean to you?

Does the idea "don't become entranced with patterns/entities so you can go deeper" make sense?
Thanks!!!!!

Letting go for me takes on different meanings or actions depending on the situation. With DMT letting go means relaxing, allowing myself to be over taken by the effects and accepting what happens without resistance.

Letting go for a difficult ayahausca exp is the same (depending on dose) but the more effective action is total acceptance. Usually the case is some happening or some aspect of me that I determine is bad, dark, or negative. Not wishing to accept and love this part is fighting the exp therefore, in this case, letting go is to LOVE all of me, forgive myself or others, accept my flaws and determine if I can change them.

I understand the second statement quoted above my TM. Its much clearer to grasp this idea discussing Ayahuasca as there are different stages to the exp as well as different types of hallucinations. Visuals give way to visions, and the visions are where the knowledge, learning, and revelations reside. Many people get stuck on the pretty visuals by endlessly focussing upon them but you can or will learn to either toggle back n forth between these different hallucinations or enjoy the pretty lights for a bit but then clock in and get to work in the visionary state. Its this state that communication with things like entities and plant spirits happens or becomes possible.

Not to sound like I'm downing smoked/vaporized DMT butI explained it to a friend as this;

DMT puts on a show for you in hyper multi-faceted dimension. The show may be beautiful, the show may be ugly. It may be informative, it may be up lifting. It may be lots of things but the peak is more or less a mind blowing spectacular show followed by my personal favorite stage, the visionary state.
After the show its the visionary state that feel's like downloading cosmic information and secrets.

Well put as a pre-psychocadet I really resonate with this. I was always curious about the act of letting go, I have those aspects about myself that are offten brought to the forefront while on Cannabis. I wasnt sure what to make of it.. But your words really help me putting that in prespective.

 

[oldsoul]

^^ I agree!!

Anyone else having thoughts on letting go please feel free to share it

Same for your interpretation of "don't give in to astonishment"

 

[InnerVoyages29]

DMT puts on a show for you in hyper multi-faceted dimension. The show may be beautiful, the show may be ugly. It may be informative, it may be up lifting. It may be lots of things but the peak is more or less a mind blowing spectacular show followed by my personal favorite stage, the visionary state.
After the show its the visionary state that feel's like downloading cosmic information and secrets.

Wow!! Thanks Olympus mon for explaining what a DMT experiences is like in a nutshell. Ive only had a three month relationship with the molecule, and have had the pleasure of experiencing many successful breakthroughs. The problem I run into is trying to share/describe these sacred experiences to people close to me and who are also interested in what it has to teach.

When I first experienced a sub-breakthrough I would reach out and grasp on to whatever physical object I could find to tether me from the sensation of leaving my body, literally fighting the experience! After I learned to focus more on my breathing and even making up my own hand mudras, I noticed a huge difference in the transition from sub, to breakthrough experience. Fully letting go was the ONLY way for me to experience a true... more "comfortable" breakthrough : )

 

[Hickey]

You just have to let it take you...

In response to the mind-set that one does not want to become overly distracted with the surroundings -- This is true, but you also want to remain in the mind-set that you intend to stay at that level of consciousness.

I encourage you to meditate briefly and try to clear your mind. You'll realize that a swarm of thoughts instinctively attempt to enter your attention. Rather than self-destruct, you can simply exercise your ability to maintain a clear mind. Almost immediately you'll develop the necessary skill (within 15 minutes you'll be ready).

I've learned to personify the entire experience into an amazing being that is doing me a favor* by taking the time to show me what is present at that frequency. By respecting the experience enough to "let it take the wheel" without consciously fighting your thoughts you'll have a much more successful and enjoyable experience.

To answer your question in short - yes. My apologies for the excessive response I just think future readers could benefit from a variety of input.

 

[ZenSpice]

I concur and also recommend the notion of "pre-flight meditation" each and every time (even if it is only ten mins or so).

I tend to use the box technique (letting all thoughts flow in my mind freely until they find there way into an imagined box that I then close over) and it seems to work for me.

The best journeys (imo) are when one spends the whole day in a positive and reflective mindset, maybe doing a little cleaning (good intent) and smudging the house (or area of journeying) with incense (also having a stick lit while I journey).

The above really does seem to set the brain up to receive better and the mind to be less distracted and more determined to stay true (not give in to awe).

 

[universecannon]

Yup, a breakthrough can definitely be aborted. Although I've found that at a high enough dose resistance is futile, lol. To make a long story short I once unknowingly inhaled 50mg in one hit and held it in (double my breakthrough dose) and after it hit i panicked and walked out of the room down the hall and into another room where i paced back and forth for 10 minutes. I was still fully on the other side the entire time though regardless

On the flipside... with practice, willpower, chants, and a sort of trance like focus you can actually dip your toes into it at lower doses than usual as well

 

[Journeymann]

I think the last 2 were threshold experiences, but to answer your question I think one can mentally keep oneself from entering hyperspace fully.

A detailed Experience Report would help us all help you better.

The reason I say that is because we have no idea if you used inhibitors, what your diet was like at the time. etc.

Without that I all I can say is that I use p.harmala 15-20mins before hand, full specturm freebase (100mg) on blue lotus leaves (smells like mushroom burning... oh my) and a pinch of manske under the toungue (yuckers ).... next I have a small glass of hot chocolate with water for the theobromine (1 packet of chocolate mix) at this point I am off and running on a harmala magic carpet ride.. then it is usually only 2 small tokes of changa and I am locked into hyperspace.

I hope this helps. :thumb_up:

 

[ZenSpice]

I just had to abort a journey mid way through and it was not a nice feeling at all.. Reality was here (thankfully) but I felt detached for a good 5-10 mins afterward.. So it seems from my very recent experience that a journey can be aborted if need be, bearing in mind this is no longer my "first few times" taking DMT.

Additionally I now feel internally like I have done something "wrong" and it feels pretty crappy, thankfully as each minute passes this feeling is waning..

Intent, set, setting.. Even when you think you have it something pops up and destroys the geometric window into beyond..

All I am left thinking about is the many wise words of the hyperspace fool.

 

[oldsoul]

Thanks everyone for the responses, it has been very informative. I think the experiences when I posted this were only threshold doses, I have not gone back since. Instead I'm trying to form actual crystals so I have a better idea what to expect by weight. The batches of goo I had seemed variable in potency

Additionally I now feel internally like I have done something "wrong" and it feels pretty crappy

Yea, it's definitely more unsettling, I've not had a bad trip from DMT yet, but the non-breakthrough experiences definitely left me feeling just like you mentioned. It give me a kind of bad paranoia also, opposed to the unbridled joy of returning from breakthrough. Luckily like you say it wanes quickly

All I am left thinking about is the many wise words of the hyperspace fool.

Hell yea! Whenever I see a new post made by HF I greedily gobble up the nuggets of wisdom like a fat kid who just robbed a candy store.

 

[edge2054]

I find it easier to breakthrough on smaller doses. I know this sounds counter intuitive but for me there's a sweet spot that's well below the 50mg and three hit recommended dose. When I can relax and let go of my ego rather than feeling like it's being torn away from me I'm less likely to panic and fight the experience.

Recently I was able to slip in and out of visionary states on 50mg of oral DMT which really surprised me. This was my first oral DMT experience and I had some tolerance going in from recent usage of 2c-e. It was my test run to make sure I wasn't overly sensitive.

But hey, some people say they enter these states with practiced meditation. So I imagine feeling safe and comfortable enough to relax completely is just as, if not more important, than dosage.

Also seconding the love and acceptance bit that olympismon posted I've learned as I've gotten older and experimented more with psychedelics as an adult that many of the aspects of myself I used to demonize have a purpose, even 'negative' things like anxiety and anger. For me the goal has become less about being perfect and 'happy all the time' and more about just being happy with myself, warts and all.

 

[MorningWoods]

oldsoul, I only read a few of the first posts in this thread but it became evident to me that you are using DMT because you think it will help you overcome these 'problems' you have. I used to do the exact same thing and I was having more difficulty breaking through, pretty much exactly what you are saying.

What I did, and my suggestion to you, is try and take DMT without any preconceived notions of what is going to happen. Do not think that it will heal you, do not think of what you are going to experience. Go in with an empty slate. The gods already know everything about you and will help you with whatever you need, regardless of whether you focus on those problems beforehand.

Meditate for a short while before taking it, clear your mind and take the leap of faith into the aether. You will be in good hands.