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DMT freebase in Syrian Rue Brew

Migrated topic.


Rising Star
Any reason this shouldn't work? Any reason this isn't more popular?

One could just drop some freebase spice into a Syrian Rue (peganum harmala) tea, during the reduction phase, correct?

The spice should be converted to tannate salt by the rue brew, correct?
maranello551 said:
Any reason this shouldn't work? Any reason this isn't more popular?
Maybe going for this ROA some might be more inclined to do an extraction on the rue first for precise dosing. Then take the harmala extracts half an hour before dosing the DMT to ensure the MAOI inhibition is in place before the DMT hits the bloodstream.
Yeah i myself separate the DMT and Harmalas, i wait 30 minutes in between usually, it's always been consistent and reliable. However, i've read a lot of disappointing results from people who have taken both at the same time rather than separating them. Some seem to do fine when they're combined, but separation seems to be the best way to go. With Harmalas/Rue in tea form, the duration of gut MAO-A inhibition seems shorter compared to that of Harmalas/Rue in capsule form, so in tea form i probably wouldn't wait anymore than say 10 to 20 minutes, whereas with capsules 30 minutes to an hour seems to do fine, less or more than that and the DMT may have trouble being activated, as you want full gut MAO-A inhibition so that all of the DMT is active. Though if you consume the Harmalas enough regularly, a reverse tolerance will start to build up, and the Harmalas will bind tighter to the MAO-A enzyme which will inhibit it faster, better, stronger, which helps when it comes to all in one teas (Harmalas and DMT combined).

But you don't know how many times i've read from people on the Aya fb group that they didn't have much in the way of effects, or they didn't get effects until about their 3rd time or so, and people wanna keep coming up with dumb excuses like "well maybe you were blocked up" or "the medicine was still working even though you didn't get much out of it" or "you need to do such and such diet and then Aya will work". They come up with excuses as to why it didn't work for someone rather than telling them the truth that it's because DMT wasn't active. Harmalas have no issue being active and are fine given that you take a good dose, but because of DMT's activation issue, it may or may not work, so it's better to inhibit MAO-A first and then consume the DMT. You don't hear/read of people taking Psilohuasca or other Psychedelics and the Psychedelics not working, because the rest of them are already orally active and will no doubt work, so it's obvious the reason why Aya or Pharma doesn't work for someone is because DMT isn't being properly orally activated.

I personally would vote for separation of the two compounds rather than combining them, even if i didn't have any issues with DMT's oral activation when they're combined, you just get a lot more consistency out of the separation of them.
Though if you consume the Harmalas enough regularly, a reverse tolerance will start to build up, and the Harmalas will bind tighter to the MAO-A enzyme which will inhibit it faster, better, stronger
I get the feeling that you're misunderstanding the way in which competitive MAO inhibition works. If you have pre-loaded with harmalas there will be more of the enzyme already inhibited. Thus, any further harmalas will be able to finish the job more effectively. The binding affinity should remain the same, unless there is some kind of allosteric modulation going on.

I wonder what other enzymatic effects the harmala loading will have. There'll be something going on with CYP2D6, for starters. I wonder also if this has any bearing on the metabolism of DMT. CYP inhibition or induction would have a bearing on just how much of it gets oxidised to bufotenine. The DMT to bufotenine pathway could feasibly exist in the human organism, even if the more plausible route is via the methylation of serotonin.

Meanwhile, back on topic, I'd vote for a bit of harmalas first, followed by more harmalas with a bit of DMT.
Yeah taking some Harmalas first, and then some more Harmalas with the DMT sounds like a good idea, i've never done it though because this stuff has worked just fine for me with one main dose of Harmalas so i have no complaints, but i've read some good things about predosing some Harmalas and then dosing some more Harmalas later on.

As for the reverse tolerance, it does seem like the more regularly this stuff is consumed (especially within the first week/few days) the Harmalas (as well as Moclobemide) will bind more tightly to the MAO-A enzyme and so all in one teas tend to work better after a few tries. Whereas separating the Harmalas and the DMT seems to work much better right from the get go.
downwardsfromzero said:
What do you mean, "bind more tightly to the MAO-A enzyme"? How would you claim this happens? Do have evidence for this claim?

It's something i've heard from various conference videos on Aya. And i think there's also something on Moclobemide about it as well. Though with the Harmalas, it could be that because Harmalas are metabolized by CYP2D6, and Harmalas inhibit CYP2D6, they inhibit their own metabolism and hence at least some of why the reverse tolerance occurs, so perhaps it's that the dosage is getting stronger which is why it seems to work better? But if that's the case, then yeah it would also bind more tightly to the MAO-A enzyme as the dosage goes up thus inhibiting it more fully. But there was something else i had heard that made it sound like the more the Harmalas are taken, the more sensitive MAO-A would be to the Harmalas, and so it binds more efficiently and faster, but once again it could just be a dosage-related thing. If it is a dosage-related thing though, would that mean that with a proper dosage of the Harmalas (that would fully inhibit MAO-A) be enough to fully activate DMT orally in combination/taken at the same time? Or would some of the DMT possibly be metabolized out if MAO-A isn't inhibited fast enough?

Still though, i see benefit in waiting until gut MAO-A is fully inhibited to take the DMT-containing plant, just to make sure i get every bit of it activated as i can, but it's always seemed consistent for me when waiting 30 minutes, sometimes an hour especially with an Acacia or Mimosa tea, but i mainly use capsules for the Harmalas/Rue, i haven't worked much with teas but the duration of inhibition from teas i do think is a bit shorter compared to capsules because liquid is processed faster i guess, so the timing window for the gut's MAO-A inhibition is most likely somewhere along the lines of maybe 5 to 10 to 20 minutes, whereas Harmala/Rue capsules have a longer window of inhibition and so less room for error i guess, i do need to work more with Harmala/Rue/Caapi teas though, i just prefer capsules.
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