litrium said:
Firstly Apoc, realize that Shamans of various kinds, not just Ayahuascaros treat these experiences as something very serious and very real, this is why they take various precautions to protect themselves, this is also why they also have the power to heal and also harm. They know that what they are accessing is not how current Western emperical science perceives it to be.
I'm not in any way coming from a fear based perspective. I am simply stating the facts. And the facts stand that many people that have the use DMT have experienced malevolent entity contact and other negative things as I have already stated earlier in the thread.
OK, I will say there was a bit of confusion and laziness on my part. When I wrote my post, I wasn't sure if the point of your post was to say that you agree with what Alex Jones is saying in the video. Also, I'm not even really sure what Alex Jones is saying. Something about leaders of the world using DMT to get information from elves that tell them to kill everybody? To be honest, this whole topic is so weird I hardly know what to say about it. I read a few comments back and forth between you and a few other guys..... I thought I had a handle on what this topic is about, but now I'm not even sure what this whole thing is about. I'm not sure what to say about the Alex Jones interview because I didn't see any proof of his claims. And I'm not sure what your point is. Are you just giving a caution? That maybe taking psychedelics isn't in peoples best interest because some people have bad trips?
Some may argue that all these things are from themselves, an aspect of the psyche etc, but at our current scientific understanding that still doesn't even have a solid knowledge of 'consciousness', we should not throw away knowledge of ones that have traversed these dimensions many many more times then most people and have a greater understanding of these realms such as Shamans. They will tell you that these realms are filled with various entities with there own goals, agendas and they are not all benevolent beings.
What convinces me is my own experience. I've had plenty of experiences that people would likely consider bad.... but I always come out feeling better after. I just learn from the bad experiences. I've encountered demons in trips before. So what? What damage have they done to me? None whatsoever. They frightened me for a while, and that's it. I have absolutely no reason to stop using the spice because it brings awesomeness in to the world, and I have not had any negative side effects whatsoever. That's my experience with it. If someone has a different experience, they shouldn't, and probably won't take dmt. It won't matter what I, or anyone else says about dmt. If they feel bad about taking it, they won't. Just like for me it doesn't matter what anyone says about dmt. If they say dmt is evil, and causes psychosis or is making leaders of the world try to globalize and destroy the planet.... that's total garbage to me, not true for me at all.
If you have had these negative experiences which correlate to what I have mentioned then we can agree that they occur, atleast your honest to admit that they do. Now, are they real? Are they not? The truth of the matter is, we don't know and science at it's current stage doesn't know either.
The experiences I've had on dmt are the "realest" I've ever had. I don't think science will ever have anything to say about hyperspace, any more than it has to say anything about imagination (the point being, that it's an internal experience, outside the realm of science). Therefore, I'm not really interested in what science has to say about my experience of altered perceptions. The whole experience is 100% complete within me. What could science possibly say about it?
DMT experiences have also been, in some ways, the scariest I've ever had. But an experience being scary doesn't make it negative. The only danger I see from spice use is fear itself. I've been afraid lots of times on dmt. So what? The experiences I've had aren't "negative" per se, they are sometimes scary, and sometimes reveal unpleasant truths about myself, or the nature of existence. For example, the fact that I, and every living thing, is in a constant state of reconstruction and decay. Parts of me are dying off all the time ie: cells constantly dying. I have no reason to believe that dmt causes a particular dying off of anything in the body. Everything about this substance tells me, "it's ok. You can handle this." I also get the message that the nature of being an animal on this planet is brutal. I have to constantly kill and eat animals, and dominate over nature, in order to survive. My body is
constantly struggling to maintain homeostasis. My whole life is literally a life and death struggle. But, again, everything about this substance tells me, "you can handle it. This isn't particularly more traumatic than the daily grind your body goes through".
You say that taking dmt might not be in our best interest. But what do you mean by that? What isn't in our best interest? Do you think the entities might be sucking peoples energy, and killing them?
Let's entertain the notion for a moment that what the Anicents and Shamans say is true, that man has a soul, that most of the universe is hidden from view, that gods, demons and a plenum of other beings and realms exist. If this is true then wouldn't you say that having an evil, manevolent and possibly 'evil' experiance on DMT should be taken a little more seriously?
More seriously than what? I do take dmt experiences as serious as I can possibly take anything. DMT seems to reach to the core of my being. What I know about myself is that I'm a temporary phenomenon that is someday going to cease to exist, and no matter what I do, my whole universe will someday fall apart. There's nothing I can do about it. No matter how serious, or not serious I take anything, the outcome will ultimately be the same. The end. So, even if someone tells me that there is some kind of risk of being possessed by an evil psychic entity if I take dmt, I would still take it because I've taken it many times, had tonnes of scary experiences, huge doses, felt possessed many times, and nothing bad ever happens. I always come out feeling better. I guess what I'm saying is, life is full of risks. There are great risks I take when I drive on the road. A lot of people really do die on those roads, and I could be one of them. But I still take the roads. One road I choose to take is the the psychedelic road. Despite the fact that there
might be entities in some other dimension that
might have benevolent intentions, even though my experiences suggest otherwise, I choose to take dmt. And whether I choose to take dmt or not, in the end, I will wind up exactly the same. Dead. Though I think my life itself is greatly enriched when sprinkled with spice.
Having said all that, I'm sure it is possible for some people to be traumatized for whatever reason, by dmt or other psychedelics. Maybe part of it is they just allow themselves to be freaked out, and a person like me just says, "who cares? Let it be." And maybe some of it is really traumatizing to people. I don't know. However, I don't believe potential entities.
