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DMT-n-oxide reduction with the help of electrolysis

Migrated topic.
However, I really beleive that this experiment has massive potential for improving the DMT extraction process.

What with the advent of the FASW / FASA extraction method, limonene, I really feel that there are infinite possibilities for expanding the collection of the spirit mollecule.

Now, GET YER THINKING CAPS ON!!! :D
 
Since you're already doing electrolysis with your solution, would it possible to add a step to remove the buying of NaOH by creating your own in the process of converting n-oxide to NN dmt?

2H20 + 2NaCl + dmt n-oxide ---electrolysis--> dmt + 2NaOH + 2HCl ?? This could be potentially dangerous(i.e. explosion), anyone able to comment on if this process is possible, or would it be better to split up the 2 processes? or would it just go boom.
 
PerPLexED said:
2H20 + 2NaCl + dmt n-oxide ---electrolysis--> dmt + 2NaOH + 2HCl ?? This could be potentially dangerous(i.e. explosion), anyone able to comment on if this process is possible, or would it be better to split up the 2 processes? or would it just go boom.
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This reaction would not work this way under the conditions described!:d

For once, the stoichiometry is incorrect; the "dmt n-oxide" and "dmt" parts are not needed in the equation. The equation should be written 2H20 + 2NaCl ---> 2NaOH + 2HCl, or for simplicity's sake: H20 + NaCl ---> NaOH + HCl.

Of course, the above equation is extremely endothermic and massive input (and coupling to other reactions) is required to make it work. In every day life the opposite reaction is very easy and readily doable, i.e. NaOH + HCl ---> NaCl + H2O, which is one of the simplest examples of reaction of an acid with a base.
 
endlessness said:
is there anything wrong with simple mixing with zinc dust to reduce n-oxide to nn ?

(not that I dont want new paths being explored, of course, I am all for it :) Just wondering .. )
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no, but it seems to a bit of a process(even though this seems to be a bigger one :p) but as with all scientific experiments, sometimes you dont get the results you expected, which in turns opens up questions for new possibilities/processes that could simplify a process.


This reaction would not work this way under the conditions described!Very happy

For once, the stoichiometry is incorrect; the "dmt n-oxide" and "dmt" parts are not needed in the equation. The equation should be written 2H20 + 2NaCl ---> 2NaOH + 2HCl, or for simplicity's sake: H20 + NaCl ---> NaOH + HCl.

Of course, the above equation is extremely endothermic and massive input (and coupling to other reactions) is required to make it work. In every day life the opposite reaction is very easy and readily doable, i.e. NaOH + HCl ---> NaCl + H2O, which is one of the simplest examples of reaction of an acid with a base.
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Was just giving the basic "this is kindof what is desired out of this" equation. It was being discussed that NaOH is hitting a lot of red flags, and that one could turn NaCl into NAOH without too much trouble...since salt is just that much easier to purchase/less chance of raising suspicion. So i wanted to know if it could cross over and both processes could be done at the same time, converting the NaCl into NAOH, using the oxygen from the n-oxide.

It sounds lucrative...converting all your n-oxide into NN dmt AND getting the NaOH in the process...*crosses fingers*..
 
It's not only lucrative, it's also close to science fiction. Your equations also give you HCl as a product , which means that even if one manages to make NaOH this way it will quickly react to make NaCl. 0 + 0 = 0!

If you are dying to make sodium or potassium hydroxide, do it from hardwood ashes the way the soapmakers of the past did it! Reacting sodium carbonate with calcium hydroxide may also form sodium hydroxide (Na2CO3 + Ca(OH)2 --> CaCO3 + 2NaOH)
 
magic clown said:
How to easily make sodium hydroxide

Here's how: put two bowls side by side fill each one with a super-saturated salt solution(NaCl).Use rock salt(any pharmacy)cause table salt is iodized.Bridge the two bowls with a rag or towel that's wet with the same saturated solution(to cunduct electricity from one bowl to the other)put the positive of a car battery charger with carbon or graphite rod connected to it in one bowl and the negative also with carbon or graphite rod in the other one.Power up,you'll see bubbles coming off the carbon rods.I don't remember if it's the positive or the negative,but one of the two is chlorine gas(very toxic so do this outdoors) that's the salt losing the chlorine atoms and they're being replaced by oxygen and hydrogen(OH) that are binding to the sodium giving you NaOH and what was a salt solution is now a lye solution.evap it and collect your lye crystals .Leave the power on till no more bubbles come off the rods by the way.It's as easy as that
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Here is the process described...Was wondering if you could mix this solution with removing the n-oxide?
 
Dhow!

You're right, I' stupid. the process described by magic clown is indeed correct. During the process hydrogen forms on the anode and chlorine gas on the cathode, so you get rid of the hydrogen and chlorides that can form HCl and potentially react with the NaOH.
 
Infundibulum said:
Dhow!

You're right, I' stupid. the process described by magic clown is indeed correct. During the process hydrogen forms on the anode and chlorine gas on the cathode, so you get rid of the hydrogen and chlorides that can form HCl and potentially react with the NaOH.
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why i said not to try it, because this process does include high reaction potentials if done incorrectly.

Your chemistry still exceeds mine^^, now, would it be possible to use the oxygen from the n-oxide in the process to convert your n-oxide to nn dmt, and create your own NAOH in the process?
 
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