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DMT Once Called "The Horrorshow Drug of the Psychedelic Family"

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elphologist1

Rising Star
Interesting reading from the book _High Priest_, by Timothy Leary (1968 ), Chapter 13.

During the first year of the Harvard Psychedelic Research Project, rumors circulated about a powerful psychedelic chemical called dimethyltryptamine: DMT. The effect of this substance was supposed to last less than an hour and produce terrorizing effects. It was alleged to the the horrorshow drug of the psychedelic family.
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In the fall of 1962, while giving a three-day series of lectures to the Southern California Society of Clinical Psychologists, Dick Alpert and I fell into discussion with a psychiatrist who was collecting data on DMT. He had given the drug to over a hundred subjects and only four had reported pleasant experiences. This was a challenge to the set-setting hypothesis.
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The chapter then describes Leary's experiments with the drug (he obtained instead a 90% rate of positive experiences with subjects in a positive setting). It also describes a unique machine the study group created to allow subjects to communicate the type of experience they were having at various points of the trip.

elphologist
 
I can bear witness to these horrific events!

Who would ever want to see colors that don't exist with the most insane fractal images ever?
 
Actually, this makes me wonder about 5-MEO DMT. It seems this substance today has the same reputation that DMT had 40 years ago. Is 5-MEO DMT (when smoked) the "Horrorshow Drug of the Psychedelic Family"? I ask the same question that was asked in the original article. "Do certain substances predispose one to a negative trip, or is it just a matter of set and setting?"

It seems to me that a possible reason for the negative past reputation for DMT is that is comes on so fast as to be scary. At the same time, the harshness of the smoke is not likely to be pleasant, at least the first few tries. These negatives would contribute to a negative setting, thus making a bad trip more likely. Maybe the whole problem with 5-MEO DMT is that the trip is so strong and comes on so fast as to be scary? That and the fact that since effective doses are in the few milligram range which is difficult to measure accurately. Probably many people end up consuming a large dose without actually trying to.

My first experience with DMT was a "bad trip", although not bad enough to be unmanageable since I could still think clearly enough to realize I just needed to hang in there and it would end soon. I was having trouble vaporizing the DMT, so my first few tries provided nothing more than slight visual changes. Then as I heated up the DMT in a test tube apparently the whole tube got so hot that I couldn't see any condensing vapor inside. As I inhaled through a straw, I could tell though that I was getting vapor, so I continued to breathe in. About the time my lungs were full I realized "Hey, I'm getting a pretty big dose here I think!", and it was too late. Boom, it seemed like all the objects in the room were simultaneously in front of my eyes at the same time. Keeping my eyes open was confusing and mentally painful. I remember thinking "Way to go, you really messed yourself up now!". But I was able to think clearly enough to realize that it was only a trip, and it would be over soon enough. Once the intensity started decreasing and I realized I was on my way down I was able to relax and enjoy it more. Since then I've smoked DMT about half a dozen times and all my other experiences have been positive or at least neutral.

The only other "bad trip" I've ever had was my first large dose of LSA. That one started out as a good trip, but towards the end the long duration and increasing "mindfuck" got scary. I've ingested psilocybin about a dozen times and have never had a "bad trip". I did have once, when I was still trying to figure out potency/dosages, where I had an "annoying" trip. The dose turned out to be too small, so I wasn't getting much in the line of effects, but the effects were still enough that I couldn't concentrate on doing something else. So I decided to take a walk. That was a mistake, because everything seemed louder than usual, and every noise and every car that went by annoyed the shit out of me. Kind of like after a very long, hard day when everything annoys you. But it was annoying, not scary.

elphologist
 
I dont think set and setting have much to do with the scary effects of 5meo..it's like loosing your mind and thinking it's never going to end..thats a 5meo breakthrough. It can be nice, and at lower doses its really euphoric but at breakthrough levels it's on par with salvia in some ways..totally different but rivals it in mindwarp capabilities..like loopong thoughts..I think this happens with 5meo and LSD alot..

Also at the time Tim wrote that I dont think they were smoking DMT..I think they were injecting it..I dunno how rapid the onset is compared to smoking..

I think there is a difference as well between what some people call a bad trip and anxiety..anxiety attacks happen on psychedelics..and then there are times when things come up that people dont want to face..this is why people suggest not taking psychedelics after a bad breakup or something like that..but really I think sometimes this is when we need the medicine the most..I have taken some big doses of mushrooms at strange times when things were looking bad and spend hours practically in tears rolling on the floor..but I came out a better person.

People dont like facing the real problems they have in front of them..it's painful and easier to ignore them..but the times when I though I couldnt handle a trip because of things going on in my life have given way to some of the most insiteful experiences ever, where I felt I grew alot. It can be painful, but sometimes healing itself is painful. Psychedelics with alot of mental effects like LSD and psilocybin are good for that.

The anxiety attacks alot of the time are like that..but they stem from a need to be in controll..people that cannot let go completely and worry about things have this problem alot with psychedelics..I have had that many times with high doses of mushrooms.

Then there is physical effects that can cause negative emotions and lead one to think they are dying or something..not much to do there but wait it out I guess..low blood suger gives people anxiety too and any psychoactive can lower bloodsuger..other than sugar itself.

I dont like the term "bad trip".."difficult experience" I like more
 
fractal enchantment said:
People dont like facing the real problems they have in front of them..it's painful and easier to ignore them..but the times when I though I couldnt handle a trip because of things going on in my life have given way to some of the most insiteful experiences ever, where I felt I grew alot. It can be painful, but sometimes healing itself is painful. Psychedelics with alot of mental effects like LSD and psilocybin are good for that.
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Yeah I've never tripped during major personal problems. I do, however, find it helpful to trip (psilocybin) after the fact when a change has occurred (and is partly integrated) in my life, or when considering which path to take among multiple options.

elphologist
 
Sounds like there were some issues pre-launch with this guys study.

Surely a person feeling full of anxiety before launch will have a better change of having an unpleasant experience than someone sitting at home, in a comfrotable setting, forcing themselves to relax before taking that first hit. There is a massive difference... I know. Sure once you are under set and setting are irrelavent, however BEFORE launch a person can work themselves up enough to make ANY ego shattering experience unpleasant.
 
I had a good strong dmt trip recently at the end of a really hard day. Woke up stressed and anxious, got an email from someone i care about a lot telling me that i had disappointed him and so spent the rest of the day feeling terrible sadness, regret, angry at myself, gratitude to him for his honesty. I did my meditative practice, wept, talked to my lover about the email, accepted my own pain. Then my guy and me had some nice time together, went for a swim in the sea, took 2 tabs of nice californian acid (not that common where I live) and then smoked some DMT. It was a beautiful, really pretty trip and that goddess I see when i trip was so happy to see me, so kind to me, so loving. Aferwards i reflected that the trip had been especially sweet because I have been in such depths of despairing emotion for most of the day, but had just allowed myself to feel what I did, got on with the things that make me feel better, got some nurturing and some cleansing and THEN crossed over. But I would be less inclined to take DMT while I was IN the state of intense painful emotions. They are quite painful enough on their own and I didn't feel stuck in them or like I needed help to move on, that was happening of its own accord.
 
My friend vap'ed numerous times in less than ideal mindsets...it did not make the experience horrible, just less beautiful. He also had the urge to cry or expell his anger during the experience and it did not worsen aanything. They told him in fact, that he can do anything. The anxiety can happen if the dose is not high enough...but it's not uncontrollable for swim.
 
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