DMT: Underground Research Masquerading as Science - or Sound Science?

[SnozzleBerry]

In short, why cannot there be an occult science; a spiritual science; an esoteric science; or even a science of mind that is radically different to the limited behavioural interests of psychology? Does ‘measure’ have to be the pre-requisite for ‘science’ when the end goal is about knowing and understanding?

I've disregarded your opening paragraphs as they're less relevant to the point I'd like to make than the above passage.

When you make up your own definitions, anything can be anything, but everything loses conversational utility when you make up your own definitions, as no one else is on the same page as you. A definition of science is:

the intellectual and practical activity encompassing the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the physical and natural world through observation and experiment.

Claiming "the end goal is about knowing and understanding" is a bit of a red herring. You could be talking about many things that are not science but still aim to conclude with "knowing and understanding." Substituting your own definitions is detrimental to productive discussion.

As far as entheogenic psychedelic substances are concerned the only means of testing or validating the experience is by actually partaking of the substance and thereby committing one’s mind to such an investigative enquiry.

How can you claim this when there is literally an entire body of peer-reviewed research that doesn't include a single researcher "actually partaking of the substance" in the context/course of their research?



It's all well and good to speculate that someday science may engage with the immaterial or "spiritual" or have explanations for currently unexplainable phenomena, but using that postulation to then claim that essentially "anything can be science if you want it to be" strikes me as nonsensical and unsupported by evidence.

Strassman's research was 100% about the measurable parameters, that's the only way he was able to get it sanctioned, and those parameters are clearly published in the academic literature.

But by Strassman's own admission, they are not what made the research interesting.

Maybe...but you originally said:

If you recall Strassman’s research was never about the measurable parameters, it was about those otherworldly experiences.

And that's just fundamentally untrue. So...

 

[The Traveler]

My thoughts mirror SnozzleBerry and dreamer:

If you are not able to understand the scientific method or are not able to withstand the rudimentary testing of it then you have little to show on this forum since we will take nothing on face value anyway.

You either stop with this pseudo-science disinformation or you start to deliver something real.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[burnt]

I didn't read this entire thread. Did read the article though. Although I think title may be a bit misleading in terms of content, the overall article is fine and well written. There is nothing wrong with introducing a book either. If i wrote a book i would want people to read it.

Recording observations is a big part of science. So if you taking a substance and recording the effects you observe on it on yourself you are doing science. Forming hypothesis and testing them is another part of science. Observations, experiments, theories, its all science.

I think the issue here is the interpretations you make from recording subjective observations about a drugs effects. Answering the question of whether or not an entity is real from taking a drug we know effects the brain is something you need to design an experiment to really test. I can't think of an experiment that would answer that exact question. But certainly observing the effects in the brain the drug has via fMRI or some other technique would useful in gaining insight into how to design such an experiment. So does research into effects from a psychological perspective. I think the more we know about these things the easier it will get to design experiments that give meaningful answers to these questions.

I don't think we are really at a point where we can say science can't explain the effects of psychedelic drugs like dmt.

 

[The Traveler]

I think the issue here is the interpretations you make from recording subjective observations about a drugs effects. Answering the question of whether or not an entity is real from taking a drug we know effects the brain is something you need to design an experiment to really test. I can't think of an experiment that would answer that exact question. But certainly observing the effects in the brain the drug has via fMRI or some other technique would useful in gaining insight into how to design such an experiment. So does research into effects from a psychological perspective. I think the more we know about these things the easier it will get to design experiments that give meaningful answers to these questions.

I don't think we are really at a point where we can say science can't explain the effects of psychedelic drugs like dmt.

I think you hit the nail on the head here burnt. Thank you for your input.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[Jees]

SnozzleBerry mentioned this elsewhere, I'd like to elaborate.

...Sorry to respond to your post in this way but THANK FUCK for at least one decent and honest response from someone not trying to totally piss on and extinguish my tiny little bonfire! Man alive! Thanks for the oxygen there bro! Lifesaver!

It is very very hard for us humans, as a whole, to disconnect between
[logic-scientific works , be it only collecting data and/or analyzing/theorizing them]
and the
[emotional person]
that carries them out. The true-to-the-bone researcher would not even care if a feedback is agreeing or dis-agreeing, only seeing input to work with.
Even outside agree/disagree, the quantisizing if certain input is relevant or not, the true-researcher would leave his emotions far away home. Because he knows the emotions easily mask out objective relevance.

Seeing the hard emotional expression quote above, this is the human side of WAS. It's natural, it has his place, it's inevitable. It defines being human. We can't expect anyone to not-be.

But a line has been crossed here imho and needs addressing: that in ALL the responses you got so far, from many many people here, except from Chocobeastie, were not-honest, not-decent, and only out to piss you off.

If you wrote a book about trip reports and the spin-offs here at nexus in a more humble/non-personal manner, I predict EVERY ONE LAST SOUL HERE would be on your page, cheering hurray, and SnozzleBerry wearing a WAS T-shirt on his next talk

Why did this not happen? This is a pity, your work is so laborious, you can write, it deserved a better treatment by yourself imho.
If we read you like the quote above (which is an exponent of your general polarizing tendencies throughout imho), how can we validate any further your objectivity seriously on any of your works? People dig just an amount of persona-ooze, not limitless.

I realize, this post, you probably feel "attacked" once more, again negative response, well it is NOT :thumb_up:

 

[What a substance]

[All that you wrote and posted]

Your post came over as quite "shouty." :thumb_dow

Not sure why you felt obliged to take that tone or to include so much of your own stuff.

Nevertheless, can you recommend just one of your videos and just one of your papers and I'll be sure to take a look.

 

[What a substance]

It's not easy to write a book, and I'll offer due credit for the effort you put in, kudos on that good sir.

I'll take it! Thumbs up

You're right; it's not easy to write a book! And I could count on one hand the people who have given me due credit for that.

It's far easier investing considerable emotional energy in critiquing an article of just a few hundred words. And that's fine. You can't please everyone. But can you believe, in this day and age, that people will still judge a book by its cover?

 

[What a substance]

I realize, this post, you probably feel "attacked" once more, again negative response, well it is NOT :thumb_up:

On the contrary Jees. Your posts are by far the most enjoyable because you always confirm my niggling little suspicion about the plausibility of your personality, as conveyed on this site.

What can I say? At least I row my own boat!

 

[SnozzleBerry]

[All that you wrote and posted]

Your post came over as quite "shouty." :thumb_dow

Not sure why you felt obliged to take that tone or to include so much of your own stuff.

Nevertheless, can you recommend just one of your videos and just one of your papers and I'll be sure to take a look.

When you make a vague quote, (e.g. "[All that you wrote and posted]") it's impossible to know what you're talking about. I would assume that you meant my most recent post struck you as "shouty" (not really sure why/how as you chose not to elaborate), but then you seem to skip over anything I said in that post, and start referencing a post I made over a month ago? So maybe you're talking about that one?

If you're asking why I used large font to ask you what the thesis of your article was, the reason is simple; I had already asked the question and you hadn't engaged with it in your response. Thus I assumed you missed it and wanted to make sure that you engaged with the question.

I must admit, I found your assertion that your article lacked a thesis rather surprising, but it appears that the large-format font did draw your attention to the question at hand. That said, I would maintain that this assertion is rather revealing.

As to why I posted my body of Nexus-related work, the answer is simple...you asked me to!

Be sure to link me to any creative efforts you undertake

I think the talk most relevant to this thread is Criminals & Researchers: Perspectives on the Necessity of Underground Research (text available here)

[YOUTUBE]

As an aside, would you care to engage with this exchange? You appear to have conveniently skipped over it and it seems rather significant given the claims you have been making about research, science, and the contents of your presentation/book...

If you recall Strassman’s research was never about the measurable parameters, it was about those otherworldly experiences. That was also the focus of my research.

Strassman's research was 100% about the measurable parameters, that's the only way he was able to get it sanctioned, and those parameters are clearly published in the academic literature.

But by Strassman's own admission, they are not what made the research interesting.

Maybe...but you originally said:

If you recall Strassman’s research was never about the measurable parameters, it was about those otherworldly experiences.

And that's just fundamentally untrue. So...

And finally:

It's far easier investing considerable emotional energy in critiquing an article of just a few hundred words. And that's fine. You can't please everyone. But can you believe, in this day and age, that people will still judge a book by its cover?

If you'd like to submit a copy of your book for reading/review/critique, I'm sure plenty of folks would be happy to read it and engage with you. I know this because several folks have said as much during chat discussions. That said, it seemed pretty apparent that none of them are/were willing to pay for that privilege. So it looks like it's just a question as to whether or not you're willing to share the text, if you'd actually like folks to engage with it.

 

[Jees]

...because you always confirm my niggling little suspicion about the plausibility of your personality..

I think personality/ego interference is unavoidable as a given, most visible when highlighted self proclaimed authority is draped all over it. We all are pathetic when it comes to it, the worst those who think of being excused/exempted for whatever reason, poring a ton of sh*t to hide in its feeble (sometimes alleged) silver lining.

I see mine and those of others, what a theater :twisted:
There comes good things of it too I'm very sure, it's just: we should work on the balance to have more of the silver lining and less of the sh*t.

 

[tregar]

Checked out the contents of the book "DMT & the Occult Mind" and plan to buy it just so I can compare the reports in the book from the author to those from Benny Shanon who took Ayahuasca hundreds of times and interviewed hundreds of people who consumed the brew over a 10 year period. As a reader of entheogenic books for many decades, closely check the scene for new books, love to read.

There are a whole group of dmt books coming out lately: Through the Transdimensional Portal: A DMT Research Volunteer Tells Her Story, "The DMT Diaries", "DMT and the Soul of Prophecy", "Panegyric to Spirit: the Final DMT diaries", "DMT & my occult Mind", etc. However, like Ayahuasca, I do find many of the new books on 5-meo-dmt to be fascinating, especially since 5-meo-dmt is a strong 5-ht1a agonist, similar to the other oral entheogens like LSD, mescaline, mushrooms, Ayahuasca which are all 5-ht1a agonist as well, DMT seemingly lacking in this department, as it has no 5-ht1a agonism...something all the important oral entheogens have in common (see chart below)...this is something the academic community continues to ignore scientifically even though LSD scientist Dr. Nichols has brought up in many of his papers. When 5-ht1a receptors are targetted, serotonin reuptake inhibition takes place in the brain...causing the brain's serotonin filtering system to be shut down, Mind at Large is allowed to Manifest when this filtering system is shut down, and the entheogen is allowed to do it's magic without the normal day-to-day filters in place. The serotonin filter system is used daily to keep us in normal survival mode...otherwise me might constantly marvel at the color of a traffic light for example.

The good books I've read on 5-meo-dmt are "The Toad of Dawn by Dr Octav and Rak Razam", "Tryptamine Palace by Oroc", "The Toad and the Jaguar by Metzner", and "The God Molecule by Sandoval and Ball".

Only bring this up as the tradtionally used snuffs in the Amazon combine DMT with 5-ht1a agonist like minute amounts of 5-meo-dmt or bufotenine (another potent 5-ht1a agonist)...important teamwork going on then...these 5-ht1a receptors in the brain making up more than 80% of brain 5-HT, while DMT is only stimulating the remaining 20% of brain receptors (with great force I might add). Besides snuffs, dmt containing plants are used with Caapi which contains a component of which is a potent 5-ht1 agonist. In other words, DMT is always used traditionally in combination with either caapi or minute amounts of 5-meo-dmt or its derivatives like bufotenine found in the snuffs. These snuffs giving effects which lasts for around 3 hours.

Graham Hancock, "Supernatural", pg 428:

My experience with smoked DMT was qualitatively different from the realms and beings ayahuasca introduced me to. For whereas the ayahuasca worlds seemed rich, luxurious, and abundant in the transformations of organic and supernatural life, DMT brought me to a world--or to some aspect of a world--that appeared from the outset to be highly artificial, constructed, inorganic, and in essence technological.

Hancock smoked DMT many times and took Ayahuasca over a dozen times.

Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):

Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome

We currently understand the mental effects of psychedelics to be caused by agonism or partial agonism of 5-HT2A (and possibly 5-HT2C) receptors, and we understand that psychedelic drugs, especially phenylalkylamines, are fairly selective for these two receptors. This manuscript is a reference...

journals.plos.org

hxxp://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009019

Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max, 0.00=min

LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00 (make up >80% of brain 5-ht)
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00 (alpha-2A adrenergic receptor)
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86 (alpha-2B adrenergic receptor)
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57 (alpha-2C adrenergic receptor)

Personally, I would love to see more books like Shanon's who used a traditional Shamanic brew which incorporates dmt from psychotria with the dream like vision effects from caapi...note: I'm not talking here about using caapi or the harmalas in such a low dose that it only "activates dmt" which is considered inferior by most native Shamans...but using it in large enough doses so that the dream-like effects of the caapi/harmalas are brought out...then study this large dose in combination with the dmt from the leafs of the psychotria or chaliponga plants.

The research presented in Shanon's book "Antipodes of the Mind, Charting the Phenomenology of the Ayahuasca Experience" is based on the systematic recording of the author's extensive experiences with the brew & on the interviewing of a large number of informants: indigenous people, shamans, members of different religious sects using Ayahuasca & travellers. In addition to its being the most thorough study of the Ayahuasca experience to date, the book lays the theoretical foundations for the psychological study of non-ordinary states of consciousness in general.

I've read Strassman's book "DMT, the Spirit Molecule" several times and Benny Shanon's book several times front to back, I find the differences between injected DMT and Ayahuasca to be striking. I have read others mention on-line that there should have been a study planned on the use of dmt in combination with harmalas or caapi for example, simulating the way it is used in the Amazon Shamanically for example...in the traditional sense.

Besides many people describing the effects of the brew in religious terms, encounters with the divine, etc., Benny came up with (in just one chapter for example) a "core corpus" of what not only he himself saw with closed eyes on the brew, but found that in his interviews, hundreds of others saw many of the same common visions...and even though the content was similar, none of the visions repeated, they were always new, for example:

Super-categories:
Human beings, Natural animals, Phatasmagoria/supernatural, Architecture, Objects, Plants, Personal biography

Categories:
Mammals, Objects of art and magic, Birds, Royal and religious figures, Landscapes, Palaces and temples, Non-natural animals, Heavenly scenes, Reptiles, Divine beings, Cities, Vehicles

Details:, Felines, Waterscapes, Flowers, Objects of gold, Serpents, Processions, Dancing women, Naked women, Forests, Temples, Semi-divine beings, Royal figures, Enchanted cities, Open landscapes, Palaces, Angels and transparent beings, Gardens, Royal objects

Details: Serpents, Nymphs, ETs and spaceships, Royal figures, Flowers, Royal objects, Chimera and winged beings, Enchanted cities, Religious figures, Angels and transparent beings, Waterscapes, Objects of gold, Forests, Armoury, Guides and guardians, Felines, Egyptian scenes, Personal acquaintances, ancient civilizations, celestial scenes, creatures and beings, Encounters with the Divine, Sea creatures, Insects, Celestial voyages, Cities, Mythology, Symbols, Heavenly scenes

The above Ayahuasca "contents of visions" chart is in contrast to the occult terms used by the author of "DMT & my Occult Mind" used to describe smoked dmt only. Instead the Ayahuasca visionary content is described in religious, spiritual, transcendent, artistic and cultural related terminology.

Even though Ayahuasca visions are often described as "dream-like", they do not contain content commonly seen in sleeping dreams as Shanon mentions, but rather items such as tigers and serpents, palaces or scenes from ancient civilizations, royalty or other special beings for example...as well as places that may be characterized as phantasmagoric or magical, historical or mythological scenes or ones having to do with the meaning of either the human predicament, Life and Creation, Nature, or the Cosmos. The visions have religious or spiritual quality and often seem to convey a message or serve as a vehicle for instruction.

This charting of the phenomenology I find fascinating since it matches the same types of visions I've had after dreaming Ayahuasca over 50 times...I love these types of books as they probe deeply into not only what the author has experienced in the visions, but what hundreds of others have seen, myself included. Please note that the above is just a sample from the chapter covering the "contents of visions" seen with Ayahuasca, there are dozens of other chapters in his book that deal with other phenomenology pertinent to Ayahuasca for example..ie the themes of visions....ideas, insights and reflections...non visual perceptions....consciousness....transformations....time....meaning and semantics, etc. This book being on the level of "Doors of Perception" by Aldous Huxley, but taking it to a whole nother level with the authors consumption of not only hundreds of brews but interviewing hundreds of others over a 10 year period...then charting the phenomenology...a very thorough and long-term analysis study.

 

[tregar]

For a comparison of DMT trip reports (with endless speculations on the entities) to the Ayahuasca journey "contents of visions" the reader is referred to the following great reads:

DMT research from 1956 to the Edge of Time by Gallimore and Luke

DMT Research from 1956 to the Edge of Time | Reality Sandwich

From a representative sample of a suitably psychedelic crowd, you’d be hard pressed to find someone who couldn’t tell you all about Albert Hofmann’s enchanted bicycle ride after swallowing what turned out to be a massive dose of LSD. Far fewer, however, could tell you much about the world’s...

realitysandwich.com

hxxp://realitysandwich.com/318885/dmt-research-from-1956-to-the-edge-of-time/

One of the best & longest articles ever read: In this paper we learn that the Hungarian psychiatrist Stephen Szara isolated dmt from samples of Cohoba, a psychoactive snuff powder prepared from the seeds of Anadenanthera peregrina by the Taino Indians. He extracted the bufotenine (a potent 5-ht1a agonist) out and the dmt out, and gave the bufotenine only to prisoners, and injected himself with 75mg of dmt.

Only wished he had kept the bufotenine together with the dmt and conducted studies of the two working together in unison as well, then we would have reports of the Shamanically used seeds, just as they are used in the Amazon. There is important teamwork going on when the bufotenine in the seeds is used in conjuction with the dmt found in the seeds--for one, the bufotenine is supplying the missing 5-ht1a agonism that dmt lacks...just as the 2nd largest component of caapi, a potent 5-ht1a agonist and serotonin reuptake inhibitor (but not found in rue) supplies the missing 5-ht1a agonism that dmt lacks. The anti-serotonin effects of LSD, mescaline and mushrooms also fall into this category--all having strong and important 5-ht1a agonism, with 5-meo-dmt having the strongest 5-ht1a agonism of all the known entheogens--and often, why only minute amounts of it are found in plants in combination with dmt--as only tiny amounts of it are sufficient--due to its overtly strong 5-ht1a agonist actions.

Dr. Nichols: "LSD has very strong potency in blocking the action of serotonin. The morpholide lysergamide cousin had only about 1/10th the potency in blocking serotonin. Of the 5 diiferent dialkylamides they studied LSD was the most potent and specific serotonin antagonist. " [page 2 & 3 of 8]:

https://heffter.org/docs/hrireview/02/chap6.pdf

hxxps://heffter.org/docs/hrireview/02/chap6.pdf

The Mystery of DMT: A Talk with Graham St John, author Mystery School in Hyperspace: A Cultural History of DMT

The Mystery of DMT: A Talk with Graham St John | Reality Sandwich

DMT been damned as the “nightmare hallucinogen” with no medicinal value, or received accolades as the “spirit molecule”, and the brain’s very own psychedelic. The further in you go, the deeper the mystery gets.

realitysandwich.com

hxxp://realitysandwich.com/319198/mystery-school-in-hyperspace/

Google books: contents preview of Mystery School in Hyperspace: A Cultural History of DMT

Mystery School in Hyperspace

Since the mid-1950s, the psychoactive compound DMT has attracted the attention of experimentalists and prohibitionists, scientists and artists, alchemists and hyperspace emissaries. While most known as a crucial component of the “jungle alchemy” that is ayahuasca, DMT is a unique story unto...

books.google.com

hxxps://books.google.com/books?id=mGb7rQEACAAJ&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Read all the contents, found it interesting that 8 time Mr. Olympia Lee Haney gave an account of his smoked dmt experience, included in the above are detailed accounts from Watts, Leary, etc. Do like the authors writing style, around a 500 page book.

340 DMT trip reports (compiled by Meyer and Pup):

340 DMT Trip Reports

hxxp://www.serendipity.li/dmt/340_dmt_trip_reports.htm
Read the first 250 of the 340 total reports, the reports with entity encounters are marked as such before the beginning of each report.

From Pinchbeck's book "Breaking Open the Head":

For many people, Ayahuasca-a slowed-down low-res interface of the DMT flash-seems to convey strong messages from the natural world, of nature as sentient energy and spirit matter, of the need to protect the planet we have been given.

Yag whispers that human beings are meant to be gardeners of this reality, journeyers, storytellers and singers, weavers of the sacred. DMT, on the other hand, conveys no overt human or humane message.

James Oroc contrasts the differences between dmt and dmt combined with minute amounts of 5-meo-dmt from his book "Tryptamine Palace":

As an experiment (and in a foreign land) I smoked the last of the Bufo alvarius venom (the story of whose collection is described within the pages of Tryptamine Palace) with some ‘regular’ DMT (extracted from Jurema Preta.). In the vast majority of my early nigerine (DMT) experiences, I encountered visual fields of ‘dots’ that would come together to form images, much like the pointillism style of painting developed by Georges Seurat or the Australian Aboriginal song-line paintings.

With the addition of the 5-MeO-DMT containing toad-venom to the DMT however, the visual characteristic was completely different and totally unique to my experiences so far. On this occasion there was a complete lack of ‘dots’ or ‘points’ of any kind, the fine lines of the constantly changing imagery were like those painted with a single-hair brush on Tibetan thangkas and due to the overwhelming artistry of what I was seeing, I could only think of the vaulted ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in comparison.

Sistene Chapel: This was without a doubt the most ‘visionary’ experience I have ever been fortunate enough to encounter and I lay there with my eyes shut watching the most fantastic parade of the Collective Unconsciousness imaginable, wishing that it would never end, and as I sit here now I can not even describe one tiny corner of it, since every image in the multitude of imagery was in such constant motion that they defied all but a glimpse. And then moments later, like a tent collapsing when its ropes are cut, the vision is gone. Leaving only a struggle of words to explain it, since nothing before or after has come close to this experiences visual majesty.

This experience leads to the interesting question of selectively combining DMT and 5-MeO-DMT for a more visionary and somewhat less overwhelmingly transcendental experience. (Or for the other way around). This combining of the two endogenous entheogens is being tested in changa blends (reportedly at a 90% DMT to 10% 5-MeO-DMT ratio), while many Pharmahuasca urban-shamans are also adding 5-MeO-DMT to their ayahuasca-analogues to transform and deepen that experience. It seems likely to me that the combining of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT in various ratios and manners will only become more popular as the exponentially increasing number of psychonauts search for new psychological terrain to explore.

Shanon breaks down the contents of Ayahuasca visions into 4 categories:

1. Nature
2. Culture
3. Fantasy
4. Domain of the Spiritual and Supernatural

Concluding Remarks from Benny Shanon on chapter "Contents of Visions" from the classic "Antipodes of the Mind, Charting the Phenomenology of the Ayahuasca Experience":

Having focused on details, let me now take a broader perspective and comment on the global picture that emerges from the foregoing survey. In their totality, the data we have surveyed define the semantic space of the visions seen with Ayahuasca. Embracing an alternative world-view, these data may also be regarded as defining what traditional users refer to as 'the world of Ayahuasca'. The semantic space, or world, in question comprises four main domains.

The first is the domain of nature. As noted throughout the foregoing discussion, animals especially serpents, felines, and birds are some of the most common items in the visions. Natural landscapes and scenes of forests and gardens are also very common. Also common are scenes of heavenly bodies and the far reaches of the cosmos.

The second domain is that of culture. Its prime manifestations are magnificent cities, the majesty of the royal, various products of artistic creation, religion, and magic. Usually, what are seen in the visions are not contents pertaining to the drinker's own socio-cultural milieu but rather ones associated with ancient civilizations. The majority of the constructions, objects, and artefacts that appear in the visions are either precious or wonderfully ornate or both. Further, most of the buildings seen in the visions are palaces or temples, and many of the human beings are either kings and queens or religious figures and persons with spiritual prominence.

Third is the domain of fantasy. It comprises enchanted and magical lands and it is populated by all sorts of creatures which are neither human beings nor naturalistic animals. As just indicated, the objects and scenes that appear in the visions are usually not mundane; often they are associated with mythology, fairy tales, and magic.

Fourth is the domain of the spiritual and the supernatural. Ayahuasca visions often reveal before one celestial and heavenly realms. In these, divine and semi divine beings often appear. The supernatural domain is usually associated with spiritual and metaphysical meanings. Related to this domain are the items and scenes pertaining to death.

In addition to the specific contents that are typical to them, Ayahuasca visions are also characterized by the extraordinary beauty that they manifest. Time and again, drinkers report that what they see in Ayahuasca visions surpasses in magnificence anything they have ever seen either in reality or in works of art. As further indicated above, objects and artefacts that appear in these visions are usually extremely rich and wonderfully ornate. Many of the landscapes are fantastic, and even when strictly speaking they are utterly naturalistic, the landscapes often emanate special qualities such as eternal presence, divine bounty, or pristine meaningfulness. And then, when the visions lead one upwards, to the realms of the planets and beyond, what one sees can be utterly stupefying. Not infrequently a point is reached when the marvel is such that one feels that what is presented before one is overwhelming and that its scrutiny is beyond the grasp of one's human cognitive faculties. In the literature, the word 'ineffable' is often used, marking the limitedness of language. At times, however, one also experiences the limitedness of one's mind and one's heart. Especially powerful visions may impress one as being totally beyond one's mental reach. On such occasions, one feels that what one sees is too wondrous to be grasped and one finds that one's mind simply cannot contain the marvels revealed to one. In extreme cases one may feel it is too painful to watch what the visions present it is all just too sublime, above and beyond the realm of the human.

Having said all this, let me also note that what may be seen in Ayahuasca visions is, in principle, unbounded essentially, there is no limit to it. The unboundedness pertains to both the types of content seen and to the tokens (that is, specific instantiations) of these types. With respect to the types, let me cite what, on two different occasions, I have been told by two very experienced drinkers. Checking whether they had seen the various items on my structured questionnaire, these informants answered in the affirmative for all items queried. Doing this, they smiled and said 'Well, you see, I have seen everything.' With respect to the tokens, the unboundedness manifests itself in people never seeing the same vision twice.

I say this both on the basis of my own experiences with Ayahuasca and the repeated observations of many other individuals; no one has ever reported a case that counters this generalization. The generalization holds even though there are many items that are especially common in Ayahuasca visions. In terms of their type, the items seen do exhibit various patterned regularities, but the tokens associated with these content types display unbounded variation. Thus, I have seen palaces and interior decorations thereof many, many times; yet, each vision of these was totally novel not even twice did I see the same building or decoration. Coupled with the fantastic nature of the contents of the visions and their extraordinary magnificence, I find this state of affairs to be truly remarkable.

In sum, all things imaginable and non-imaginable can be seen with Ayahuasca. One can see all the moments of one's life, all the people and places that one knows, Nature and the Cosmos in all their manifestations, human history and the different cultures that it has and has not produced, and scenes that lead one above the planet, to the far reaches of the cosmos, to the heavens. One can see the inner parts of one's body and the deeper strata of one's soul, one can encounter the infinite richness of myth and fantasy, meet fairies and dragons, angels and devils, taste the nectars of the Eternal, be washed by the bounty of the Supreme Good, witness the perennial light, encounter the Divine.

 

[urtica]

To the OP:

I have read this thread a few times and I think that many of 'us' here on the Nexus have done quite a lot of underground research that we have tried to make as scientific as possible, often looking at phytochemistry. Research such as this is actively illegal and often poo-pooed in more traditional academic or research settings because it is thought that a person's interest in the drug effects of the plants or molecule that they are researching makes the researcher kind of a spacey loon who is not a good scientist.

So I think that the title of your post strikes many of us in a deep place where maybe we have felt some trepidation or dare I say shame about our methods/interests in our chosen line of study. I think that is why, upon reading your article which is about a very subjective study and does not answer or even really ask the question 'is underground research legitimate research scientifically?' there is a tendency for folks to get pissed at you because they were all worked up emotionally by the title of the article and then feel like they got bait & switched. I for one was hoping for the article to tell me that yes of course underground research is valid research, which I guess it almost does but mostly it is about your own personal journey working with the medicine and your own feelings that your personal research is indeed very valid while commenting not at all about the state of underground psychedelic research as a whole.

This is a rambly post I know. I hope your book does well.

To tregar: thank you for all of these links! I had not even known about many of these books.

 

[tregar]

Your very welcome Urtica on the books & articles links, thanks for the kind words. Spent many enjoyable hours reading it all, just thought would share for other lovers of reading.