Nathanial.Dread
Esteemed member
Enough said.
Puff tuff!
Puff tuff!
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Do People Need Religion?
- Thread starter Nathanial.Dread
- Start date
Parshvik Chintan
Rising Star
absolutely not.
but they may or may not need spirituality (i tend to believe some need it, but not everyone does)
but they may or may not need spirituality (i tend to believe some need it, but not everyone does)
steppa
Rising Star
Depends on what the term religion means in this case.
Wiki says the following:
In a way I think that people indeed need religion at least in the sense of a belief system. Everybody beliefs in something, right? To me believing in anything which is not based on scientifc facs is somehow a kind of religion in it's widest sense.
Wiki says the following:
In a way I think that people indeed need religion at least in the sense of a belief system. Everybody beliefs in something, right? To me believing in anything which is not based on scientifc facs is somehow a kind of religion in it's widest sense.
If you take away religion do you drop dead ?
Religion, I believe, is transitioning into a phase of having outlived its usefulness. For isolated and organized societies, a common system of beliefs to explain tragedy, devastation, death, the mysteries of living and the natural world, and a system to provide a set of ethical ground rules - and more importantly, reasons to follow these rules - was paramount to the success of a civilization.
I like to believe - and hope - that eventually the things that isolate us as societies will crumble and fall by the wayside so that an emerging unity based on communication and understanding will stand in its place. Organized religion will give way to a more personal brand of spirituality based on experience and contemplation and incorporating the lessons of ancient and traditional texts without adhering to its dogma, both literal and interpreted.
But that's the optimist in me, crouched and cowering in the lightest ventricle of my heart. The cynic in me, lying in those other darkened chambers and whose voice gives beat to that organ, thinks that that which once propped us up will now as easily tear us down, taking reign as the governing force of our demise.
But who knows? The realist in me, the blood coursing through vessels, thinks things will continue thus for a very long time: people will be born, live, breed and believe and kill those that believe otherwise, and finally die for their offspring to continue the cycle.
I have chosen to lay faith in nothing but to entertain interesting ideas without the burden of belief. A tact eschewing faith that I may very well regret with my last few breaths...
Cheers,
JBArk
I like to believe - and hope - that eventually the things that isolate us as societies will crumble and fall by the wayside so that an emerging unity based on communication and understanding will stand in its place. Organized religion will give way to a more personal brand of spirituality based on experience and contemplation and incorporating the lessons of ancient and traditional texts without adhering to its dogma, both literal and interpreted.
But that's the optimist in me, crouched and cowering in the lightest ventricle of my heart. The cynic in me, lying in those other darkened chambers and whose voice gives beat to that organ, thinks that that which once propped us up will now as easily tear us down, taking reign as the governing force of our demise.
But who knows? The realist in me, the blood coursing through vessels, thinks things will continue thus for a very long time: people will be born, live, breed and believe and kill those that believe otherwise, and finally die for their offspring to continue the cycle.
I have chosen to lay faith in nothing but to entertain interesting ideas without the burden of belief. A tact eschewing faith that I may very well regret with my last few breaths...
Cheers,
JBArk
Truly dumb people need reassurance that we have a "loving god", it makes them feel better in an increasingly turbulent/violent world.
Religion is the great hoax, it maintains a belief system founded on superstitions which loosely attempted to explain the unexplainable (at the time), and underminded curiosity with blind faith.
Individual spirituality is a different concept. You don't need to go to "mass" to observe it.
Religion is the great hoax, it maintains a belief system founded on superstitions which loosely attempted to explain the unexplainable (at the time), and underminded curiosity with blind faith.
Individual spirituality is a different concept. You don't need to go to "mass" to observe it.
steppa
Rising Star
Orion said:
I'm not sure if it's even possible to take away religion. I don't make a difference between believing in a "real" religion like christianity or believing
for example.
What I mean is...doesn't everybody have some kind of worldview? To me a worldview is some kind of religion.
It's a pitty that I'm not able to express myself the way I want to, cause of language barriers. But the more I write here the better it gets.
Nathanial.Dread
Esteemed member
I'm with Steppa on this one. I think whether you go to a mass or eat magic mushies in the woods, you're basically doing the same thing: trying to find relief from existential anxiety and make sense of your place in the universe.
Whether that relief comes in the form of "you are one of God's chosen children and you are saved while others are damned," or "man, the universe, and the colors, and the Grateful Dead, man," seems to me to be largely irrelevant (that's what it's like when an older psychonaut trips, right?).
No, you don't drop dead, but you radically increase your likelihood of developing depression, anxiety and shorten your life. Religion (especially the social kind) seems to be positively correlated with all kinds of mental and physical health benefits.
Speaking of which, are there anti-entheogens? Drugs that, instead of engendering religious experiences actually take away someones sense of connectivity with the universe and leave them spiritually "dead?"
I've often thought that 5-HT receptor antagonists might do that, although I don't think anyone has ever asked.
Blessings
~ND
Whether that relief comes in the form of "you are one of God's chosen children and you are saved while others are damned," or "man, the universe, and the colors, and the Grateful Dead, man," seems to me to be largely irrelevant (that's what it's like when an older psychonaut trips, right?).
Orion said:
No, you don't drop dead, but you radically increase your likelihood of developing depression, anxiety and shorten your life. Religion (especially the social kind) seems to be positively correlated with all kinds of mental and physical health benefits.
Speaking of which, are there anti-entheogens? Drugs that, instead of engendering religious experiences actually take away someones sense of connectivity with the universe and leave them spiritually "dead?"
I've often thought that 5-HT receptor antagonists might do that, although I don't think anyone has ever asked.
Blessings
~ND
Religion is for people who haven't discovered good music.
Pup Tentacle
lettuce
I think religion offers different things to different people and and operates differently under different conditions in different environments. So when you ask if people need it I think that the answer is YES, NO, and MAYBE.
I am no fan of organized religion for myself, but at the same time I find great value in a lot of thinking that has been sparked by organized religion as well as music, literature, etc. This goes for all religions with which I have come into contact and spent a little time to try to understand.
Raised a Methodist, became an Anglican, went to Roman Catholic High School, at one time considered becoming a priest, became an athiest instead, and here I am now.... some nonapproved wierdo hindu/buddhist hybrid, with a love for an Indian Yogi and a lust for cosmic experience.
So... needed? For me? Heck yes! It was this "passing through", what was, for me, a gauntlet of bullshit that drove me to continue seeking, to continue with my personal becoming and inspires it to this day. It's like a daily reminder "Don't forget to unlearn some bullshit today."
That's the personal side.
I've met A LOT of people who derive strength from their faith. While I may not understand or agree with their faith or more specifically, the organized religion from which it is derived, who am I to tell them it shouldn't be making them feel safe, good or empowered. All of existence is, to some degree, a charade. We all have our crutches - mine aren't solid gold either
I am no fan of organized religion for myself, but at the same time I find great value in a lot of thinking that has been sparked by organized religion as well as music, literature, etc. This goes for all religions with which I have come into contact and spent a little time to try to understand.
Raised a Methodist, became an Anglican, went to Roman Catholic High School, at one time considered becoming a priest, became an athiest instead, and here I am now.... some nonapproved wierdo hindu/buddhist hybrid, with a love for an Indian Yogi and a lust for cosmic experience.
So... needed? For me? Heck yes! It was this "passing through", what was, for me, a gauntlet of bullshit that drove me to continue seeking, to continue with my personal becoming and inspires it to this day. It's like a daily reminder "Don't forget to unlearn some bullshit today."
That's the personal side.
I've met A LOT of people who derive strength from their faith. While I may not understand or agree with their faith or more specifically, the organized religion from which it is derived, who am I to tell them it shouldn't be making them feel safe, good or empowered. All of existence is, to some degree, a charade. We all have our crutches - mine aren't solid gold either
benzyme said:
Hear here!
spinCycle
Life is Art is Life
3 quotes from Krishnamurti:
"All ideologies are idiotic, whether religious or political, for it is conceptual thinking, the conceptual word, which has so unfortunately divided man."
"Religion is the frozen thought of man out of which they build temples."
"When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important."
"All ideologies are idiotic, whether religious or political, for it is conceptual thinking, the conceptual word, which has so unfortunately divided man."
"Religion is the frozen thought of man out of which they build temples."
"When one loses the deep intimate relationship with nature, then temples, mosques and churches become important."
hug46
Rising Star
spinCycle said:
Jesus said, "It is I who am the light (that presides) over all. It is I who am the entirety: it is from me that the entirety has come, and to me that the entirety goes. Split a piece of wood: I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there."
I don"t think people need religion but they may want it. And if they keep it to themselves and it gives them strength why not?
Jesus, consciousness, god etc it"s all the same thing to me. I still don"t know whether i believe any of it.
steppa said:
I believe that anyway, but that's not religion, it's science.
Inner Paths
Secretary of the Interior
benzyme said:
:thumb_up:
Life is tough and throws lots of curve balls. If we are fortunate enough to live a long well-lived life, we will be beset by endless tradgedies, losses and stressors. It's just that simple, wonderful and horrific.
Religion is crutch-a-licious and down right creates a safety net of both community and faith for people in need.
In this respect, I do feel that at least up until the technological age, humans did indeed need religion.
But, now that we are getting some REAL answers and continuing to ask tough questions, I think a lot of folks miss that crutch in their lives, whether they've ever felt it or not. This and many other complex cultural reasons leads to the kinds of conservative fundamentalism in religions we have been seeing all around the globe for at least the past 30 and probably more like the past 300 years.
Technology does not provide the same kinds of metaphysical reassurances that good old fashioned faith does.
Personally, though I feel very spiritual, and though I'm getting older and continue to be beset by tough stressors, I feel no need for organized religion, a religious leader or a religious community in my life.
Gotta say, I wouldn't mind some counseling time with a Buddhist priest though,
Religion is crutch-a-licious and down right creates a safety net of both community and faith for people in need.
In this respect, I do feel that at least up until the technological age, humans did indeed need religion.
But, now that we are getting some REAL answers and continuing to ask tough questions, I think a lot of folks miss that crutch in their lives, whether they've ever felt it or not. This and many other complex cultural reasons leads to the kinds of conservative fundamentalism in religions we have been seeing all around the globe for at least the past 30 and probably more like the past 300 years.
Technology does not provide the same kinds of metaphysical reassurances that good old fashioned faith does.
Personally, though I feel very spiritual, and though I'm getting older and continue to be beset by tough stressors, I feel no need for organized religion, a religious leader or a religious community in my life.
Gotta say, I wouldn't mind some counseling time with a Buddhist priest though,