Do we need better guidelines on safe use?

[polytrip]

I'm asking this question because it's getting clear to me that especially considering one's mental health, the use of DMT is not entirely without any risk. incidentally we see someone on this site devellop mental problems of wich it is unclear how they're related to DMT use, they might be caused by excessive DMT use, or DMT use may have acted as a catalyst. But it makes it all the more clear that some guidelines may be needed to avoid people getting into trouble because of DMT usage.

The first principle should ofcourse be that in no circumstance should anybody who's in a psychologically unstable condition, use any psychedelic.
Other principles: that you should never use DMT or any other psychedelic if you're not entirely sure you actually want to use it.
That you shouldn't use psychedelic's too often, meaning you should process your last experience and integrate it in your life somehow, before starting a new journey. That you should stop DMT use, the moment you feel yourself slipping into a less optimal psychological condition. That you should never hesitate to seek (proffesional) help if somehow you feel an experience has seriously harmed you in some way. That whenever you loose the boundaries between this world and the DMT world out of sight, you quit using DMT and you should focus on THIS world. That hyperspace may never serve as a replacement for this world and may be never given priority over your actual day to day life.

Those would be a view of my suggestions.

 

[Bill Cipher]

I'm all for it.

 

[stevowitz]

this is a very good idea.

 

[IAAGSOM]

True true.

I thought these guidelines were already in use though

 

[ohayoco]

Yes I think too many people are attracted to it just for fun, and don't properly consider that something this powerful should be used cautiously. There's nothing wrong with doing it for fun, of course, but it's power needs to be respected and it shouldn't be taken lightly. I can't imagine shamen daring each other to down each other's potions just for a laugh.

Personally I suspect that people who have problems bring their problems with them, and in some cases problems could get worse due to a double edged sword of escapism in hyperspace and isolation from this world from spending too much time extracting and on the internet. This site is the more addictive thing! :lol: We should caution firmly against escapism, but in a way that shows moderation is necessary with any activity so as to not make responsible use of the molecule look dangerous. A little escapism is ok, but I suspect that many people who use it very frequently are doing so at least in part for escapism, and that is something to be mindful of.

We should remember though that many people who are drawn to DMT are unhappy and looking to it for change (healing, enlightenment or release from boredom?), so this demographic is bringing problems with them and we shouldn't jump into blaming the molecule when it doesn't work out at this stage. Let's be honest, some new age / hippy types can come across as a bit unhinged sometimes, whether they take drugs or not. Actually I find the sober ones wackier- crystal skulls and psychic pet healers and all that- so I'm not blaming the psychedelics at all.

I don't know about the latent psychosis thing. I've asked many times but no-one seems to know if it's really a problem or just a disclaimer tacked on to all psychedelics.

And I wonder, is it better for beginners to start with small to medium dose ayawaska? It's generally more useful and less of a mindmelt. The influx of teens is a concern, we need to make things clear for them without sounding like boring old farts because then we'd be ignored.

My opinion.

 

[jbark]

I am all for it, although I think you'll find it difficult to reach a consensus concerning the content; just the idea of "professional help", of which i am a staunch proponent, sparks debates that go on for pages and pages and spark up new threads that do the same.

The safety of this stuff is a hot topic. I for one have no problem admitting that it IS dangerous, and that responsible use is essential. Toying with the very "fabric of reality" and delving deep into one's own consciousness can be nothing but dangerous, albeit extremely life changing and educational if approached maturely.

In fact, I think safety guidelines are sorely missing here, and from my perspective are a requirement if this is to remain the kind of place it is.

I think sections including short and long term ramifications and safety issues are needed, as well as a sort of "troubleshooting guide" for those in difficulty, recommending responsible use, regular self-evaluation - and professional medical/psychological help/therapy if necessary. Guidelines for quantity, method and an outline of an overarching philosophy of use might help avoid "pissing contests".

I believe Acolyte's document (that I haven't finished reading...)is a step in the right direction, but a more succinct guide could be stickied and/or wikied and should certainly be required reading for membership.

Spice voyages can be fun, illuminating, mysterious and spiritual, but can also be terrifying, destabilizing and sanity threatening; that's why I love the support the nexus already gives, and would highly recommend steps to strengthen it with just such guidelines.

Just off the top of my head. Hope this makes sense. very tired and possibly not too coherent. But i wanted to get this down nevertheless, cause i feel it is of the utmost importance.

thanks polytrip for beating me to the line - i was going to suggest something of this nature:d

JBArk

 

[Citta]

Agreed. We are dealing with potentially dangerous materials here. They are indeed tools, and as other tools used for other purposes they can be misused, accidents can happen or they can be approached without sufficient maturity. So put down the pipe for a while and take a look at what's going on with you and be careful. Follow simple guidelines; it is a reason they are there and it is a reason why people who follow them usually get the potential benefits and that those who don't get problems that are hard or maybe impossible to solve.

With that I wish all of you much luck in future journeys.

 

[88]

This is a timely post - in recent times there seems to be many who've had trouble reintegrating. It is a tricky path this, and we are playing with the very fundamentals of perception, identity and psychic health. I doubt there is much point laying down rules, but clear guidelines and a wiki would be a good thing - something like a 'if you're afraid' wiki, and a 'am I losing my mind' wiki, too.

Very important point in the OP: "whenever you loose the boundaries between this world and the DMT world out of sight, you quit using DMT and you should focus on THIS world. That hyperspace may never serve as a replacement for this world and may be never given priority over your actual day to day life." this is hugely important, and I'm glad you've said it.

Good thread

 

[clouds]

I think part of the problem is the fact that these substances are illegal, and therefore 'integration' can be difficult to some people under certain circumstances. Some people (myself included) would love to be free to talk to our friends and dear ones about our voyages and ideas, our feelings and our dreams that have been influenced by psychedelics. But doing that, under the actual social context, can be a potentially dangerous move, both emotionally and socially. You can get in trouble.

I think 'integration' has more than one connection. I think integration consists in 'integrating yourself', 'integrating with the environment' and 'integrating with society'. In other words, you need to get your shit together, you need to figure out how to improve the place your are living in, and finally, you need to be cool out there with the people.
The first thing can be done with time, meditation, walking, reading, exercising, working in something you like or practicing some type of art. The second thing can be done by going to the beach, camping, visiting the forest, planting some trees, growing some flowers or riding a bike around and feeling the air... Just getting lost out there, seeing the sky, the clouds, the wildlife and the grass. And finally, the third thing can be done by talking face to face to close friends, or with your BF/GF, with co-workers, your parents, and others. (This last step is risky because psychedelics are illegal) Some take the risk and some don't. Point is, not everyone has a community to talk to, like the Ayahuasca Religions or the Peyote Church, places where if someone is having difficulties integrating certain experiences, they have people to talk it with face to face and supporting them in real life. Forums can help (no doubt about it), but some people need more than text, more than information through a screen. Some people (not all) need to integrate in a different way. Some others can go to Heaven & Hell and back and they can handle the situation: They stay sharp... they are in control.

As someone said before, we are all different and react in our own way to the psychedelic experiences and integrate it. But IMO things would improve a whole lot if you could interact with other like-minded people in real life without being afraid of going to jail, losing your job or getting into trouble. I think the 'integration' factor is very important.

On a more personal note, I like to translate videos about psychedelics and upload them to my Youtube account to raise awareness about them. I believe, as the MAPS team does, that mainstreaming psychedelic research and ideas is very important and raising awareness (and turning on more and more people) will create, in time, pressure to push for legalization. I think legalization of this substances is extremely important, and fighting (in my own way) to help that cause, helps me integrate myself on several levels.

"Hope" is what keeps me cool. Hope that someday, you could talk to your therapist/friends/family about your experiences and things will be all right.

 

[vovin]

I completely agree on the idea of guidelines. The issue here is that those undertaking this journey will not heed them.

 

[pau]

Agree! At least, we could post our collective wisdom on this guideline matter in a special thread...maybe encouraged reading for newbies. Of course everyone will make their own ultimate decisions - to do or not to do - but at least the Nexus could have a centralized spot, moderated, where we actually make some effort to share the precautionary information that has been useful for us in the past. Great idea and thanks for bringing it up!

 

[88]

I completely agree on the idea of guidelines. The issue here is that those undertaking this journey will not heed them.

... as the recent 'massive dose' threads have proved.

 

[Crystalito]

That you shouldn't use psychedelic's too often, meaning you should process your last experience and integrate it in your life somehow, before starting a new journey. That you should stop DMT use, the moment you feel yourself slipping into a less optimal psychological condition. That you should never hesitate to seek (proffesional) help if somehow you feel an experience has seriously harmed you in some way. That whenever you loose the boundaries between this world and the DMT world out of sight, you quit using DMT and you should focus on THIS world. That hyperspace may never serve as a replacement for this world and may be never given priority over your actual day to day life.

I am all up for it Polytrip, its a very nice idea -if you ask me,the above should be considered self-evident-.

In practice though, i have seen and can pinpoint some areas that could be problematic. For example, while many ideas may look good on paper and even be accepted by a community as "the best possible course" or "self-evident" , its a rather common occurence to see people ignoring them even if they know them by heart and could even give a presentation to others about those ideas. Why this happens? Well i dont think its confined in the realms of psychedelics, its a general human characteristic.

A small -but crucial- note to what you have said, is that the person must have the awareness if something goes bad : a problem undetected is a problem unsolved! While a portion of people may be able to pinpoint that they are going "downhill" i think many people might not notice it if the changes are small. Also a rather interesting and "sneaky" facet is : what if "slipping into a less optimal psychological condition" or "loosing it" actually feels...pretty damn good? For some people a "Messianic Complex" , a "Manic period" or just simply "loosing it" has the feeling of "finally finding it" an aura of epiphany.Some people might even take pride in their "new found abilities" which to an external observer might be a completely unfounded claim. Well, here should also come a reality check with people close to you that you trust : if they all start noticing things about you that are not that...erm...optimal, maybe they are not "wrong" or "unenlightened" ,there is also the case that they have noticed unfovorable changes in you. Lets just liken it to looking into a mirror. Still ,even in those cases many people might comfortably choose to ignore what others have noticed on themm like an elephant looking in a mirror and claiming about its trunk "Well, its not THAT big really!".

Also a comment about "Fun" mentioned some posts below the OP post. "Fun" is not "Wrong". Well at least using the terms "right" and "wrong" has an aura im not too keen of ,i dont think they can be defined so arbitrarily. "Fun" though is ...fun, hence if one finds intense ways of having fun and defines "having fun" by this kind of experiences, its more likely that intervals between "acts of fun" might shorten or that "fun" might be depended upon/intervowen with having a really intense experience. If this slowly starts creeping in ,you may find that all preconcieved and pre-defined "cautious approaches" and "limits" might fly straight out of the window.Hey, after all who doesnt like fun and who wouldnt have fun anyday? I have seen this happening many times, and its usually something (the downgrading of safety standars or keeping the experience fresh) that the person doing it is not fully aware of.

 

[polytrip]

I'm pleasantly surprised by the fact that at this moment 100% of all voters agrees that we actually do need better guidelines. I expected some debate.

I don't know how this could be done, though.
You'd want everybody who enters the nexus to read them or at least to notice them so they can read them if they're interested in safe and responsible use. Yet you don't want them to be like the gloomy cigarette warning labels.

 

[۩]

What good will this do?

People are attracted to DMT because they can clearly see that it will reveal to them "something more."

People who want to experience this "something more" will stop at nothing to experience it, regardless of what anyone says.

They crave it. They need it.

Some people, like myself, can use DMT responsibly, divinely, shamanically, and respectfully and still wind up regretting it.
Why? Because DMT reveals things beyond your capacity to imagine.
That's just what it does.
There is no stopping this from happening.
Some of us just find this knowledge to be too much to deal with.

So in my opinion, you can warn people about that, but it won't stop them from doing it. They will smoke DMT and find out for themselves. Then they're on their own. It's up to them to decide what they want to do with these tremendous possibilities. It's up to the user to deal with what they're given.

You can warn and set up guidelines all you want, but people are like leprechauns, and everyone reacts differently to the power of consciousness.

 

[Saidin]

If it helps just one person to respect the spice and have a clearer idea of what is possibly in store for them, then it is a great idea.

 

[damiana]

Guidelines should state that starting small is best. Never overload a bowl, and use respect. This will help a lot of people I'm sure.

 

[pau]

Not entirely unlike smoking and drinking! At least there aren't large corporations filling the airwaves with seductive advertising aimed at getting us hooked on spice.

Indeed we all meet in the Nexus as independent thinkers and - many of us - independent doers. Who else can better prepare a list of helpful guidelines, dos&don'ts, and tips for the newbies (of which I am one) ... many of whom would be grateful for such a resource.

You do see this with ads for "responsible drinking"...but I guess there's no such thing as "responsible smoking".

 

[Felnik]

I think this is a great idea. I think its really important to have some guidelines on the safe use of this stuff.
I think its more powerful than anything else that exists.
I've found that a respectful shamanic approach really helps to set the stage for a safer journey.

 

[Redguard]

What good will this do?

People are attracted to DMT because they can clearly see that it will reveal to them "something more."

People who want to experience this "something more" will stop at nothing to experience it, regardless of what anyone says.

They crave it. They need it.

Some people, like myself, can use DMT responsibly, divinely, shamanically, and respectfully and still wind up regretting it.
Why? Because DMT reveals things beyond your capacity to imagine.
That's just what it does.
There is no stopping this from happening.
Some of us just find this knowledge to be too much to deal with.

So in my opinion, you can warn people about that, but it won't stop them from doing it. They will smoke DMT and find out for themselves. Then they're on their own. It's up to them to decide what they want to do with these tremendous possibilities. It's up to the user to deal with what they're given.

You can warn and set up guidelines all you want, but people are like leprechauns, and everyone reacts differently to the power of consciousness.

I agree 100%. If someone hasn't learned how to be a responsible drug user by the time they get to dmt it will take a hell of a lot more then an internet post to change how they use the drug. In fact i'd say they should start using it irresponsibly and get that one trip to show them the error in their ways.