swimwithlove
Rising Star
Does DMT have more merit than LSD? DMT is endogenous. DMT has been found in the pineal gland of rats. Endogenous LSD has never been found in the lab.
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Does DMT have more merit than LSD?
- Thread starter swimwithlove
- Start date
That's like asking which is better for smashing a glass window; a hammer or a brick.
fathomlessness
Rising Star
Bodhisativa said:
That is a bit vague in answering his question (assuming that is what you wanted to do) the guys is looking for a longer and more concise answer (which I probably can't give lol)...
Merit is subjective and decided buy each individual exclusively.
PERSONALLY, I feel DMT has WAAAAAAYY more merit than LSD because it was created by nature and not man. Coupling that with the fact that it is an endogenous neurotransmitters. Coupled with the fact that breaking through to dimensions is almost guaranteed for everyone given the correct dose. Couple with the fact of what intelligent precepts one witnesses on it in comparison to the psychological changes in the lSD experience.
That being so, LSD seems to be more therapeutic I have heard. It offers something slightly different from ayahuasca, something more personal but less spiritual or "other-worldly".
Horses for courses, but nevertheless LSD doesn't grow on trees or in brains... DMT however does... hehe
I should have asked this in my first post.
What do you mean by merit?
What do you mean by merit?
I don't have the feeling that LSD is less spiritual than ayahuasca. And it is also possible to break through to other dimensions with LSD.fathomlessness said:
I personally like LSD more than DMT. I find it more pleasurable, as well as more versatile.
In lower doses, it is great in social settings. In higher doses, it is every bit as spiritual or awe insiring as ayahuasca.
they are differen't tools ...
dmt is perhaps a more direct contact with the 'other' for many..
..while LSD is more introspective and bodily aware in the average dose range. its great for dance.. its great for art and music.. for connecting with other people.. good for understanding the interconnectedness between mind and body (probably why its so good for dancing). its great for many things that dmt is not well suited to. and vice versa ..
if I want to commune directly with the divine, then dmt is my primary tool and I generally don't even consider using LSD for that kind of experience (although it is a good baseline to be on when using dmt).
they are both just very differen't substances which are well suited to differen't situations... and as situations don't have more merit than other's, neither do the substances taken in those situations... they both reveal deep truths about reality
dmt is perhaps a more direct contact with the 'other' for many..
..while LSD is more introspective and bodily aware in the average dose range. its great for dance.. its great for art and music.. for connecting with other people.. good for understanding the interconnectedness between mind and body (probably why its so good for dancing). its great for many things that dmt is not well suited to. and vice versa ..
if I want to commune directly with the divine, then dmt is my primary tool and I generally don't even consider using LSD for that kind of experience (although it is a good baseline to be on when using dmt).
they are both just very differen't substances which are well suited to differen't situations... and as situations don't have more merit than other's, neither do the substances taken in those situations... they both reveal deep truths about reality
Yeah, they're different. But not VERY different, i think. You can clearly tell that LSD is active on the same receptors as DMT. (though LSD, like mescaline, is active on some other receptors as well) There definately are striking simmilarities, if you ask me. Unlike with salvia, for instance, or N2O, wich realy are entirely different substances.acacian said:
yeah you are right they do have similarities.. I think it has the tryptamine structure embedded in it too.. personally though I would say something like mushrooms have far more in common with DMT visually and audibly...
the main thing I find LSD has in common with DMT is really just that its psychedelic.. and the overall traits of psychedelic visions and headspace have general similarities between substance to substance (eg trails, geometric patterns, feelings of oneness of dissolution of the ego).. it certainly doesn't feel as organic as dmt and its psychoanalytical element sets it apart from other psychedelics in a huge way to me.. but those two things I actually really like about it for certain situations. in a longterm context dmt seems a little safer to me.. though neither are to be taken lightly
the main thing I find LSD has in common with DMT is really just that its psychedelic.. and the overall traits of psychedelic visions and headspace have general similarities between substance to substance (eg trails, geometric patterns, feelings of oneness of dissolution of the ego).. it certainly doesn't feel as organic as dmt and its psychoanalytical element sets it apart from other psychedelics in a huge way to me.. but those two things I actually really like about it for certain situations. in a longterm context dmt seems a little safer to me.. though neither are to be taken lightly
Yes, shrooms are VERY simmilar to DMT. But strange enough, i Always feel there's something missing with shrooms. Something i can't put my finger on, wich i don't have with LSD. Shrooms seem to go less deep, emotionally. I think i could actually manage to be completely dispassionate about something, on shrooms. While being dispassionate about anything, on LSD, msecaline or ayahuasca is just not possible for me.acacian said:
dragonrider said:
its funny you say that.. there is something oddly passive about shrooms for me as well. I was just thinking this the other day as I have been working with them again recently and found they often lack the 'edge' that LSD consistently has. not to mention to psysical cleanliness of good quality acid which the body load of shrooms pales in comparison to. Visually I find LSD can become a little stale sometimes though.. or void of spirit. mushrooms I find an incredible tool for getting in touch with the spirit of the bush
Bodhisativa said:
entheogenic-gnosis
Rising Star
I think all the psychedelics are amazing.
DMT May be endogenous, but all the true psychedelics are either tryptamines, or phenethylamines, and all your higher neurotransmitters are either tryptamines or phenethylamines (serotonin is 5-hydroxy-tryptamine, meletonin is N-acetyl-5-methoxy-tryptamine, pinoline is 6-methoxy-tetrahydro-beta-carboline, dopamine is 3,4-dihydroxy-phenethylamine, norepinephrine is 3,4-dihydroxy-beta-hydroxy-phenethylamine, epinephrine is 3,4-hydroxy-beta-hydroxy-N-methyl-phenethylamine.
LSD has the N-methyl-tryptamine moiety burried within it, start at the benzene ring, move over right to the pyrrole ring, then follow the two carbon chain up to a nitrogen with a methyl group attached to it (position 6), you just outlined the NMT moiety with in LSD.
...so all true psychedelics could be seen as special in this sense.
-eg
DMT May be endogenous, but all the true psychedelics are either tryptamines, or phenethylamines, and all your higher neurotransmitters are either tryptamines or phenethylamines (serotonin is 5-hydroxy-tryptamine, meletonin is N-acetyl-5-methoxy-tryptamine, pinoline is 6-methoxy-tetrahydro-beta-carboline, dopamine is 3,4-dihydroxy-phenethylamine, norepinephrine is 3,4-dihydroxy-beta-hydroxy-phenethylamine, epinephrine is 3,4-hydroxy-beta-hydroxy-N-methyl-phenethylamine.
LSD has the N-methyl-tryptamine moiety burried within it, start at the benzene ring, move over right to the pyrrole ring, then follow the two carbon chain up to a nitrogen with a methyl group attached to it (position 6), you just outlined the NMT moiety with in LSD.
...so all true psychedelics could be seen as special in this sense.
-eg
Attachments
Godsmacker
Rising Star
LSDMT warrants moar merit than either one of those psychs alone.
WisdomTooth
Rising Star
Well to be honest everything ultimately comes from nature if you think about it, we evolved from nature and created LSD from (ergot fungus) that comes from rye and some other grains i believe so in a sense they both are pretty pure and natural themselves. LSD for me is by far the cleanest substance and experience IMO.
DMT can give you great deep spiritual experiences going beyond anything we can explain with words and most definitely can be life changing but its more of a wild un-controllable ride and insights come forth more down the line where with LSD you can ride it and learn a lot as you go and have 8-12 hours to take notes and gain more from the experience in a more rapid way.
LSD helps me understand DMT experiences and everything else better and teaches me more about myself and my normal day to day life (Assuming taking normal doses) helping me better my physical existence where with DMT is more like teaching the deepest cores of the universal consciousness/self and understanding beyond our physical existence yet its more as a slap awake in a big flash and LSD is more of a taste, as gentle push into the right direction.
Just my 2 cents
DMT can give you great deep spiritual experiences going beyond anything we can explain with words and most definitely can be life changing but its more of a wild un-controllable ride and insights come forth more down the line where with LSD you can ride it and learn a lot as you go and have 8-12 hours to take notes and gain more from the experience in a more rapid way.
LSD helps me understand DMT experiences and everything else better and teaches me more about myself and my normal day to day life (Assuming taking normal doses) helping me better my physical existence where with DMT is more like teaching the deepest cores of the universal consciousness/self and understanding beyond our physical existence yet its more as a slap awake in a big flash and LSD is more of a taste, as gentle push into the right direction.
Just my 2 cents
I like that with DMT, if there is a negative experience, that it doesn't persist for hours. I think sometimes what causes a bad LSD trip is just having the knowledge that it's not going to end any time soon, which in the presence of anxiety or uncomfortable sensations also caused by the LSD, could have things downward spiral really fast. With DMT, there is reassurance that no matter how uncomfortable it might be at the current moment, everything will be back to normal in no time.
Everyone can be as political as they like in addressing which has more merit, but if I'm speaking for myself, based solely on personal experience, I have found DMT to have more merit. I've also never taken a heroic dose of LSD (nor do I intend to). For myself, DMT tends to be more physically comfortable, and has shown me more spiritual things. It is visionary in a way that LSD has never been for me. Don't get me wrong, I've had some amazing revelations and beautiful experiences from LSD, but I feel like DMT changed my life in a way that I don't think LSD would have if DMT never showed up. I feel like even if I managed to have a comparable LSD vision, that the "psychic toll" would be much greater. There is something about DMT where I feel it can take a vision that requires a lot of the ethereal energy that seems to compose it, and makes it feel very natural. Ironically, I feel that the psychic toll is at its low when combining DMT and LSD...which reminds me that when I take LSD, vaping DMT is like the beloved respite from the uncomfortable body sensations, and really just takes the color game to a whole new level. Incredible things are witnessed, but it just feels as natural as can be.
Everyone can be as political as they like in addressing which has more merit, but if I'm speaking for myself, based solely on personal experience, I have found DMT to have more merit. I've also never taken a heroic dose of LSD (nor do I intend to). For myself, DMT tends to be more physically comfortable, and has shown me more spiritual things. It is visionary in a way that LSD has never been for me. Don't get me wrong, I've had some amazing revelations and beautiful experiences from LSD, but I feel like DMT changed my life in a way that I don't think LSD would have if DMT never showed up. I feel like even if I managed to have a comparable LSD vision, that the "psychic toll" would be much greater. There is something about DMT where I feel it can take a vision that requires a lot of the ethereal energy that seems to compose it, and makes it feel very natural. Ironically, I feel that the psychic toll is at its low when combining DMT and LSD...which reminds me that when I take LSD, vaping DMT is like the beloved respite from the uncomfortable body sensations, and really just takes the color game to a whole new level. Incredible things are witnessed, but it just feels as natural as can be.
entheogenic-gnosis
Rising Star
WisdomTooth said:Well to be honest everything ultimately comes from nature if you think about it, we evolved from nature and created LSD from (ergot fungus) that comes from rye and some other grains i believe so in a sense they both are pretty pure and natural themselves. LSD for me is by far the cleanest substance and experience IMO.
DMT can give you great deep spiritual experiences going beyond anything we can explain with words and most definitely can be life changing but its more of a wild un-controllable ride and insights come forth more down the line where with LSD you can ride it and learn a lot as you go and have 8-12 hours to take notes and gain more from the experience in a more rapid way.
LSD helps me understand DMT experiences and everything else better and teaches me more about myself and my normal day to day life (Assuming taking normal doses) helping me better my physical existence where with DMT is more like teaching the deepest cores of the universal consciousness/self and understanding beyond our physical existence yet its more as a slap awake in a big flash and LSD is more of a taste, as gentle push into the right direction.
Just my 2 cents
Lysergic acid amide can also be found in several species of climbing vines seeds, Ipomoea violacea seeds even have use as an entheogen in Mexico in ancient times.
-eg
Godsmacker
Rising Star
Is a category 5 Hurricane more destructive than a level 10 Earthquake?
AwesomeUsername
Esteemed member
I would say they are equal in that regard. They both offer something the other doesn't.
Personally, I love both LSD and ayahuasca (I haven't vaped DMT... yet). There's something special about both of them.
LSD is the ultimate gift modern science has made for us. Its long duration and potency is just the tip of the iceberg on how practical this chemical it is.
It has the ability to speed ones thought process up to the point of solving unsolvable problems in a short period of time. It is analytical in nature and one can get in a state of constant creative insights which are easy to integrate and apply practically in everyday life.
With all that potential it has also got a recreational value. The bodily feeling is blissful, and the overall experience is fun as hell because it seems to enhance everything you do with a heightened awareness of each detail.
DMT/ayahuasca has a way of connecting with you personally. It is quite emotional in nature which can result in a experience that is frightening and breathtakingly beautiful at the same time.
It feels more as something woke up inside of you instead of searching for a divine or entity outside in my opinion. It can be quite merciless and grab you by the balls and simply not let you go until it teaches you a lesson and makes sure you learn it.
With the harmalas present in the ayahuasca it also has a way of physically healing you instead of just mentally. The body simply gets rid of all the parasites much more efficiently and combined with the mental healing one experiences it can feel as the person is being reborn.
A true gift from nature.
I hope I made my point clear... Both are fantastic tools with different uses it is up to you what tool you chose to use that fits your needs right now in life. I always say, don't underestimate the power of LSD and also don't expect a single ayahuasca session to cure all your problems in life. At the end of the day, what you say, what you do and who you are is up to you. The tools are there just to open you up to the possibility to reach your potential to be the best you can be.
Personally, I love both LSD and ayahuasca (I haven't vaped DMT... yet). There's something special about both of them.
LSD is the ultimate gift modern science has made for us. Its long duration and potency is just the tip of the iceberg on how practical this chemical it is.
It has the ability to speed ones thought process up to the point of solving unsolvable problems in a short period of time. It is analytical in nature and one can get in a state of constant creative insights which are easy to integrate and apply practically in everyday life.
With all that potential it has also got a recreational value. The bodily feeling is blissful, and the overall experience is fun as hell because it seems to enhance everything you do with a heightened awareness of each detail.
DMT/ayahuasca has a way of connecting with you personally. It is quite emotional in nature which can result in a experience that is frightening and breathtakingly beautiful at the same time.
It feels more as something woke up inside of you instead of searching for a divine or entity outside in my opinion. It can be quite merciless and grab you by the balls and simply not let you go until it teaches you a lesson and makes sure you learn it.
With the harmalas present in the ayahuasca it also has a way of physically healing you instead of just mentally. The body simply gets rid of all the parasites much more efficiently and combined with the mental healing one experiences it can feel as the person is being reborn.
A true gift from nature.
I hope I made my point clear... Both are fantastic tools with different uses it is up to you what tool you chose to use that fits your needs right now in life. I always say, don't underestimate the power of LSD and also don't expect a single ayahuasca session to cure all your problems in life. At the end of the day, what you say, what you do and who you are is up to you. The tools are there just to open you up to the possibility to reach your potential to be the best you can be.