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Does God Exist? If So, What is the Nature of God?

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Saidin said:
geeg30 said:
Why ascribe a supernatural/spiritual connotation to something that needs neither?
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Why ascirbe beauty to a flower, love to a relationship, hate to an adversary? Just becasue it is not necessary, does not follow that it does not exist.
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What one person finds beautiful another might not, the same goes for love and hate etc etc. Having the subjective experience of love, hate or beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Also we know that love,hate etc exist - god(s) on the other hand are not KNOWN to exist (except in peoples minds).
 
@ saidin:

not a mathematician, but is it truly a subset when it travels a different axis? The only thing imaginary numbers have in common with real numbers is zero. My understanding of sets would indicate that this intersection (zero) would be the only thing common to both sets , therefore a different set entirely and not a subset..

But i am unfortunately at the far reaches of my understanding of mathematical principles...

If i am right, there are more than one infinities in this infinite universe. But i am rarely right!:?
If i am wrong then my comprehension is finite, and i have lost nothing !

JBArk
 
Saidin said:
geeg30 said:
Also we know that love,hate etc exist - god(s) on the other hand are not KNOWN to exist (except in peoples minds).
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Please provide evidence proving the existence of love.
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As love is subjective there is no real way to prove that love or any emotion exists, however what can be proven is the increase in certain brain chemicals and MRI scans to highlight brain function when these emotions are felt. These facts seem to be common in everyone who experiences the specific emotion.

The belief in any god however is not an emotion but just the notion that said being(s) exist.
 
We are apes. That is a direct contridiction of the bible which was created before Darwin discovered evolution which for me is above is a big red flag. We are no special being.. The religions of today were created before we had all this technological advance and they needed a way to explain the world around them. I am very confident in this theory. Life was brought to earth by a meteor with life on it ( microscopic life can survive such impacts(saw on tv in expirement( watch too much tv))) or my other theory of how life was brought to earth was .......

The primordial soup as I've heard it called is the oceans before life that allowed compounds to free flowlyand mix and the moon helped mix it up with tides. The tides were much larger though becuase the earth was fresh and the moon was still very close. So now comets hit earth and the impact creates carbon which is an ORGANIC material.

These are my beliefs sorry if that doesn't really answer your question. I believe in the laws of physics and that's pretty much it if that makes sense. Were nothing special because even if we mess this plant up and we all are extinct the cosmos will continue. Sorry if that's pessimistic but it's realistic
 
alladinsgrandpa said:
...I believe in the laws of physics and that's pretty much it if that makes sense. Were nothing special because even if we mess this plant up and we all are extinct the cosmos will continue. Sorry if that's pessimistic but it's realistic
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Nothing unreasonable in what you say, but physics, evolution, etc. try to explain the how of creation, the how of life. Science can’t (and doesn’t try to) explain the why of it all.

It’s a good question to ask, even if we know we’ll never find the answer.
 
Gibran2 wrote:

It’s a good question to ask, even if we know we’ll never find the answer.
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Those who ask questions always receive answers. Trick is matching the answers to the right questions!
But "why", in any context, is the most difficult of all possible questions. And, ultimately, the only one worthy of the asking.

JBArk
 
geeg30 said:
As love is subjective there is no real way to prove that love or any emotion exists, however what can be proven is the increase in certain brain chemicals and MRI scans to highlight brain function when these emotions are felt. These facts seem to be common in everyone who experiences the specific emotion.

The belief in any god however is not an emotion but just the notion that said being(s) exist.
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As you said, there is no way to prove that love or any emotion exists. Therefore, please provide specific evidence that shows that every persons experience of love translates to an exact match in thier brainscans. If love is simply a neruochemical phenonemon that is a common experience among our species, then there should be ample scientific proof of its existence.

There is just as much evidence that god exists as compared to love.

Claiming facts where none exist is delusional.
 
alladinsgrandpa said:
We are apes.
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We are NOT apes. We share many commonalities with them, but that is as far as we scientifically can take it.

As for origins of life...how do you explain life in nuclear reactors? Or at 10,000 meters under the sea? Or buried under ice for 10 million years?
 
The reason I said nothing matters was to address the why. There is no why whatsoever. We are just here doing are time trying to make ourselves occupied and happy. And being truly happy is when others at happy too. By that I mean ben though nothing matters at all we should all still strive to be the best we can be to help each other and make this world a better place.

If there is a why i believe it is to be more efficient and aware of an organisms surroundings. We are nature we can't forget that evolutions goal is that at if there is any why that is wht it is based upon everything I know and believe.
 
alladinsgrandpa said:
We are apes. That is a direct contradiction of the bible which was created before Darwin discovered evolution
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Agree completely (well, very advanced, spiritually aware apes). However, We aren't the first to conceive of evolution; the ancient Greeks came up with it first, even without the DNA knowledge so helpful for the neo Darwinist synthesis. The Bible is actually irrelevant to the question, to my mind anyways - it is a human book, as are all religious books. Disproving the Bible brings nothing to the table here; we don't need "special revelation" to conceive of some form of transcendent consciousness, and I would be the first and loudest to protest at anyone who had the temerity to declare he possessed the one true understanding of ultimate truth. "Prove it" isn't just a rational response, it is a moral one.

I believe in the laws of physics
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Yeah, me too. I just think we are only beginning to discover what is physically possible. It is the laws of physics which leads me to conclude that many aspects of the phenomena of human awareness are non-computable, even in principle, and always will be (see Penrose, Penrose-Hammeroff). Hence, consciousness is non-reducible to strictly materialist explanations, and strong AI is physically impossible. If physics can never, even in principle, produce consciousness, then there is an aspect of reality which indeed could be considered 'spiritual'.
 
alladinsgrandpa said:
The reason I said nothing matters was to address the why. There is no why whatsoever. We are just here doing are time trying to make ourselves occupied and happy.
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Just because you cannot conceptualize the why, does not mean it does not exist.
 
Respect everyones beliefs but I still belve there is no point to anything which would mean there is no why. Do the antelopes in Africa have a why too? Or the cane toads? No disrespect I would love it if there was a point to things. That would be amazing but we are evolved from compounds over the ages from organic material to mitocondria to fish to land to intelligent beings And I don't like the loop hole type theories such as if someone says well you can't say it's impossible so it does exist. I don't get that :lol: lighten the mood a bit ha
 
alladinsgrandpa said:
Respect everyones beliefs but I still belve there is no point to anything which would mean there is no why. Do the antelopes in Africa have a why too? Or the cane toads? No disrespect I would love it if there was a point to things. That would be amazing but we are evolved from compounds over the ages from organic material to mitocondria to fish to land to intelligent beings And I don't like the loop hole type theories such as if someone says well you can't say it's impossible so it does exist. I don't get that :lol: lighten the mood a bit ha
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Oh, I respect everyones beliefs, more so than most. I understand ignorance is part of the plan, it is all a continum of expereice and understanding. Why would I have any sort of derision for those who have not progressed enough to understand? Everyone is exactly where they are supposed to be.

In my opinion, you make a major mistake in your thinking. You equate the why across all spectrums of life and existence. Could higher life forms, ie; humans, have a different why than other oranisms? We are the top of the evolutionary ladder as far as we know it. We have a far greater understanding, and capacity for understanding than any other life form on this planet. So why would we expect non-self conscious life forms to have the same purpose as us? Just think about that.

My point was not to be flippant with the idea that the inability to deny makes it real. My point is that you should question what you have been taught and believe as the truth, because you CANNOT PROVE IT! You cannot say it is one way rather than another beause you base that argument on unprovable beliefs. I'm not saying its proof because its undenyable, its that you cannot discredit it so easily because your subjective perception of what is 'real' is as just as valid/invalid as anyone who belives in a overriding force of the universe.

Because you cannot see or understand the why, you assume it does not exist. That is just an assumption, and valid for you and no one else.

We are having a metaphysial conversation (as per the title of the thread), how is one supposed to "lighten" the mood when we are having a civil, thoughtful discussion?
 
alladinsgrandpa said:
The reason I said nothing matters was to address the why. There is no why whatsoever. We are just here doing are time trying to make ourselves occupied and happy. And being truly happy is when others at happy too. By that I mean ben though nothing matters at all we should all still strive to be the best we can be to help each other and make this world a better place.

If there is a why i believe it is to be more efficient and aware of an organisms surroundings. We are nature we can't forget that evolutions goal is that at if there is any why that is wht it is based upon everything I know and believe.
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We can all ask the personal question “why am I here?” or even questions like “why are the antelope here?” and we may even be able to answer them. You suggest the answer to the first is “to make ourselves occupied and happy”. I think that’s as good an answer as any.

The bigger questions are impersonal: Why is anything here? Why is there existence at all? Why does anything exist? Why are we conscious of existence?

Here’s what I suggested in a previous post:

The material universe was created so that the immaterial can experience finiteness, physicality, individuality, time, life, death, joy, sorrow, pleasure, pain, faith, doubt, an apparent absence of God …

That’s my latest “answer”. I’m sure it will change. :)
 
gibran2 said:
The bigger questions are impersonal: Why is anything here? Why is there existence at all? Why does anything exist? Why are we conscious of existence?
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Such questions are like a dog chasing its tail. Makes me feel like I'm being tickled to the point of torture. I can sense God laughing at the utter mystery that is evoked in our minds.

Whatever this experience is, it is amazing.
 
gibran2 said:
The material universe was created so that the immaterial can experience finiteness, physicality, individuality, time, life, death, joy, sorrow, pleasure, pain, faith, doubt, an apparent absence of God …

That’s my latest “answer”. I’m sure it will change. :)
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Charming thoughts, but it doesn't really answer anything. What about this inmaterial universe you're talking about? Where did it come from? Why? These questions are a rabbit hole with no appearant end, and your answer is not really an answer at all.

Existence is such a joke, it's totally ridiculous and I can do nothing else than laugh at it real hard sometimes ^^
 
Citta said:
...These questions are a rabbit hole with no appearant end, and your answer is not really an answer at all.

Existence is such a joke, it's totally ridiculous and I can do nothing else than laugh at it real hard sometimes ^^
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Notice that I used quotation marks – I provided an “answer”, not an answer.

And here’s an “answer” to your question about the immaterial realm:
It has always existed. It didn’t come from anywhere. It is eternal.

Again, an “answer”, not an answer, and definitely not the Answer.
 
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