no, it doesn't matter if you are a dummy.
I pull off a wicked helicopter, does that count?
I pull off a wicked helicopter, does that count?
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Does Intelligence Matter in the DMT Experience?
- Thread starter DisEmboDied
- Start date
Here is the kind of intelligence that i think matters when it comes to DMT....its simple.
Smart dmt users are using it for their benefit. Theres nothing more to it. Who am i to judge the goals of someone using dmt for less philosophical purposes than say, myself?
The trickiest part (this can be tricky for ALL intelligences) is to decide whether dmt really helps in your life. Luckily, for those a little short on intelligence like myself... Dmt often has a way of providing "gentle" clues to make me see for myself if i am benefiting
!
God bless dmt though, really great tool.
Smart dmt users are using it for their benefit. Theres nothing more to it. Who am i to judge the goals of someone using dmt for less philosophical purposes than say, myself?
The trickiest part (this can be tricky for ALL intelligences) is to decide whether dmt really helps in your life. Luckily, for those a little short on intelligence like myself... Dmt often has a way of providing "gentle" clues to make me see for myself if i am benefiting
! God bless dmt though, really great tool.
BongWizard
Hyperspace Cowboy
Yes and no.
Will DMT have effects on a person of little intellect? Of course. However in my experience, more intelligent people tend to gain more from the experience, and are more likely to continue the journey and integrate the lessons into their life.
With that in mind, perhaps it's not strictly intelligence (like education and knowledge) that allows better integration, perhaps what I mean is wisdom.
Will DMT have effects on a person of little intellect? Of course. However in my experience, more intelligent people tend to gain more from the experience, and are more likely to continue the journey and integrate the lessons into their life.
With that in mind, perhaps it's not strictly intelligence (like education and knowledge) that allows better integration, perhaps what I mean is wisdom.
It's a reflection of your own psychology. If your psychology is interesting and complex, so will be your dmt experiences. If you have never thought of anything besides getting laid and emulating tv characters, I bet you that you are not going to gain anything very profound from your endeavors.
You can only learn from the previous knowledge that you possess to logically explain experiences by.
You can only learn from the previous knowledge that you possess to logically explain experiences by.
DisEmboDied
Rising Star
anon_003 said:
When I was studying Native American culture, I saw Native American symbols and themes. When I was studying Buddhism I saw Buddhas. When I was studying Hinduism I saw Hindu gods and goddesses. When I thought about Christianity I saw angels and demons. In those cases it was definitely a reflection of my own psychology.
I guess it is all a matter of interpretation.
"There are no facts, only interpretations". -Nietzsche
DisEmboDied said:
I feel that my path was much the opposite. I saw Egyptian culture on DMT, so I studied ancient Egypt. I saw Hindu themes, so I turned my attention to Hindu art.
I don't agree with anon_003 in regards to only being able to learn from previous knowledge. Part of DMT's pedagogical process is how it can show us things that we have never seen before, but something which we can still take something away from. The more you travel, the more you quite literally integrate the foreign concepts as you slowly "learn" that world in the same way that you "learned" consensual reality. If it seems like someone has only thought of getting laid and emulating tv characters, then it is likely that they were never shown anything more meaning-rich. DMT provides that option for everyone despite intelligence or personality.
Having said that, I do recognize that an intelligent person will tend to be more capable of making connections in order to make sense out of the experience. It's funny to speak of intelligence because if we think of intelligence in terms of Howard Gardner's model of multiple intelligences, then to be "intelligent" in hyperspace takes on a whole new meaning. People who are highly emotionally intelligent, and capable of characterizing a complex palate of emotions will take something different away than someone who is musically intelligent, and can make sense out of the sounds, music, and harmonic quality to the proportions and characteristics of hyperspace who will take something different away from the experience than someone who has high intelligence in the category of spatial-temporal reasoning who can appreciate the subtlety of depth, angle and dimension in a way that others may under-appreciate or fail to recognize. I think that DMT is capable and may frequently display the same stimuli to different people, but because of that person's unique perception and personality profile, their thought processes will be stimulated in very different, yet valid ways.
People are identified at different degrees to their self conceptualised belief systems. Those whom are more identified and stuck in their old patterns of behaviour/belief systems, have less of a capacity to be altered from the experience. DMT is just a mirror, if you're seeking depth in reality, it will give you depth, if you're content with your current belief systems, it will give you that limited perception, you're happy there, so it won't take you any deeper, you need to be "open to the mystery of the unknown" - Ram Dass.
One could say it is the karmic journey of the soul. The Karma will take them only to where they need to go in that moment, and no deeper, one has to be ready to be awoken, if they are not ready, then DMT, meditation, yoga, whatever the practice, they will not be awoken, for they want to stay asleep.
It is interesting coming into contact with information or the being of an "enlightened" person, for they all seem to be extremely intelligent in their nature and highly educated. I do feel "stupid people" tend to get caught on the path, falling into the pitfall of spiritual ego, rather than proving to go beyond those limited perceptions which they hold onto so dearly. I feel intelligence has a large part to it, but not logical intelligence, this is the intelligence of the body, of the world, which enables all things to be as they are and know how to be that which they are, but not knowing they know.
One could say it is the karmic journey of the soul. The Karma will take them only to where they need to go in that moment, and no deeper, one has to be ready to be awoken, if they are not ready, then DMT, meditation, yoga, whatever the practice, they will not be awoken, for they want to stay asleep.
It is interesting coming into contact with information or the being of an "enlightened" person, for they all seem to be extremely intelligent in their nature and highly educated. I do feel "stupid people" tend to get caught on the path, falling into the pitfall of spiritual ego, rather than proving to go beyond those limited perceptions which they hold onto so dearly. I feel intelligence has a large part to it, but not logical intelligence, this is the intelligence of the body, of the world, which enables all things to be as they are and know how to be that which they are, but not knowing they know.
Intelligence counts, but it is too intrinsic to human nature and not only. For me there is no such thing as stupid, and in that respect viewing everyone being different an unique you get a broader perspective of things.Not judging is key.
anon_003 said:Just for sake of debate, how did you recognize the symbology as Egyptian/Hindu in the first place?
Much love
I can recall the first time I had an Egyptian themed experience in hyperspace. Without going into all the detail, I was in a pyramid composed of tan bricks with multidimensional pharaoh sarcophagi (seeming identical to the King Tut sarcophagus down to the detail and color) enfolding through each other. I would be baffled if someone were to mistake the imagery for another Earthly culture.
On another level, sometimes the cultural images can be abstract, but as Husserl would put it, their qualities are as immanent to my consciousness as the perception of red. Take this image for example:
Although this is clearly not an authentic work of Egyptian art, I think it should be undeniably clear what aesthetic it is modeling. There are a number of artistic hallmarks to the style. The way the eyes are drawn/sculpted, the geometric motifs in their clothing, the style of a temple, heiroglyphs, head-dresses, the way feathers are drawn/sculpted, etc...Sometimes the color scheme alone can signal the cultural imagery. Turquoise is IME a fairly rare color to encounter in hyperspace...except in the Egyptian context. Therefore at the first sight of turquoise, I usually know that I will be encountering Egyptian things in the very near future.
When I encountered the Bennu Bird, I did not know what it was, but the aesthetic was so obviously Egyptian that I knew where to look to do my research.
Do you think you could confuse the originators of this image?
For sure, the egyptian aesthetic is a pretty distinct one. I, too have had several egyptian themed experiences in hyperspace. Notably, not just with DMT, but ketamine as well. I only add this to suggest that maybe it isn't just some sort of quality that is inherent with only tryptamines; maybe it is much deeper than that and has something to do with human psychology in and of itself.
The Bennu Bird experience you had is pretty incredible. While I don't think you can draw any absolute conclusions from it, it certainly makes you wonder. It seems pretty freakishly coincidental that you would see this symbol, against all others, on the particular event of the winter solstice. Who knows the reasons for that, honestly.
How do you rationalize the mechanisms for this experience? I am curious of your familiarity with egyptian culture at the point of this experience.
The Bennu Bird experience you had is pretty incredible. While I don't think you can draw any absolute conclusions from it, it certainly makes you wonder. It seems pretty freakishly coincidental that you would see this symbol, against all others, on the particular event of the winter solstice. Who knows the reasons for that, honestly.
How do you rationalize the mechanisms for this experience? I am curious of your familiarity with egyptian culture at the point of this experience.
anon_003 said:
The geometry used to make the cultural motifs seems like it is inherent to the experience. The authentic ancient Egyptian art is likely more mathematical than most might suppose. The Egyptian geometry tends to exist in the high frequency range where tight buzzing is often common. I think that a big part of the Egyptian mysteries involved the theme of rebirth. I think this was at the heart of the Great Pyramid's most elusive function: to initiate using sensory deprivation to facilitate rebirth experiences. Rebirth is the concept behind Osiris, Horace, and the Bennu Bird. Rebirth can entail the alchemy of having a consciousness that is only aware of the physical to one that is aware of the extra-physical elements in the world. There's really so much to it, and so much of it is just my speculation. One of the most important things to consider is that any time when discussing DMT-related things, it is important to realize that more often than not multiple or seemingly contrasting ideas tend to be simultaneously correct; so when thinking about the issue of whether Egyptian culture affected hyperspace or hyperspace affecting Egyptian culture, I would not rule out the idea that there was a co-evolution.
Anamnesia said:
Your guess is as good as mine. I never thought about it too much, but some things come to mind. If a function of the pyramids was sensory deprivation, then perhaps limestone creates good aural insulation. I've heard theories of the pyramids being energy collectors, and that part of that energy might be physical radiation such as that emitted by granite (I believe the sarcophagus in the King's Chamber is made of granite, but I'm not certain). If granite is good at emitting energy, then limestone might be good at insulating it.
I've heard people speculate about the inverse pyramids, but to my knowledge there is no real evidence for it.
As for the orgonite, I have some orgonite pyramids and cones. They've lead me to some revelations about how the ethereal energy works, albeit indirectly, and from my judgment not much actually to do with their own energetic properties or pyramidal/conical form. I'm both hesitant to accept talk from others about how energy works, as I am open to realizing that many of the things that I hear about energy that I am quick to dismiss, I later verify myself incidentally. Point is that if I hear some talk about pyramids spiraling energy, I'd like to try to experience it for myself: either through a meditational experiment, or if the concept is displayed for me to behold on DMT, as if by dumb luck.
Without hijacking this thread too much more, the incident I refer to with the orgonite pyramid is quoted below. I think I talked about it in one of the e-zines. The "crystal" I refer to is the orgonite pyramid.
Global said:
Interesting thread. This has been something I've thought quite a bit about.
When I was initiated, I went on a small mission to turn some people on. I was engaged socially with the crowd at my methadone clinic and felt that my trips had moved me into a place where I would be able to deal with my addiction and wanted others to have the same. But it didn't work.
I'd give it to people who would take a large hit, but not enough to breakthrough and just laugh and say things line " wow man, I'm f****d up". That depressed me and I stopped and focused only on myself and on finding a community of line minded folks.
As far as it delivering your expectations, I had been heavily studying qabala, occultism and the western mystery tradition, and expected some sort of sephirotic vision, but instead was shown vistas and was related concepts far more aligned with Taoism, Tibetan Buddhism and eastern esoteric ism. These were not areas of no relation to me, but I had given up those studies decades prior and did not know much of the concepts related to me. I felt as I was downloaded with information from some on high source regarding pranayama and other advanced meditation visionary practice. In fact these techniques were so effective I had to stop practicing them or risk serious depersonalizations and possible psychosis.
So, DOES intelligence matter in the DMT exp? I know it makes me feel infinitesimally small minded when I'm in hyperspace, but also feel that the more wisdom, knowledge and experience one has, the more useful it is. So maybe it's not intelligence, but knowledge, and it's our ability to cognate, or intelligence that allows us to integrate the experience into our lives?
When I was initiated, I went on a small mission to turn some people on. I was engaged socially with the crowd at my methadone clinic and felt that my trips had moved me into a place where I would be able to deal with my addiction and wanted others to have the same. But it didn't work.
I'd give it to people who would take a large hit, but not enough to breakthrough and just laugh and say things line " wow man, I'm f****d up". That depressed me and I stopped and focused only on myself and on finding a community of line minded folks.
As far as it delivering your expectations, I had been heavily studying qabala, occultism and the western mystery tradition, and expected some sort of sephirotic vision, but instead was shown vistas and was related concepts far more aligned with Taoism, Tibetan Buddhism and eastern esoteric ism. These were not areas of no relation to me, but I had given up those studies decades prior and did not know much of the concepts related to me. I felt as I was downloaded with information from some on high source regarding pranayama and other advanced meditation visionary practice. In fact these techniques were so effective I had to stop practicing them or risk serious depersonalizations and possible psychosis.
So, DOES intelligence matter in the DMT exp? I know it makes me feel infinitesimally small minded when I'm in hyperspace, but also feel that the more wisdom, knowledge and experience one has, the more useful it is. So maybe it's not intelligence, but knowledge, and it's our ability to cognate, or intelligence that allows us to integrate the experience into our lives?
DisEmboDied
Rising Star
Well, it for me too has also been the case that I was revealed certain things about culture of which I had no idea existed before I did a dose of God particles.
I once smoked some acaia goo, and felt like a serpent king, I felt aligned, sitting on a throne, and had a serpent go through my spine and rest onto the top of my forehead and/or crown.
I went went back on my merry way and couldn't figure out anything about it. I didn't think much about it at the time.
After some reseach and talking to others about it, two major mythical things came up, Kundalini had aligned my chakras and had created a power feeling like a king, and/or Egyptian pharohs wore and were buried with serpernts on their forehead:
Also, my friend who had no idea of chakras experienced and described them perfectly well.
There are many other examples.
But it is still also the case that I have seen and experienced the themes that I was studying at the time. I guess it is a maximization of the brain, which conjures up the past/genes, or connects to a higher dimensional internet. Or something like that...
I once smoked some acaia goo, and felt like a serpent king, I felt aligned, sitting on a throne, and had a serpent go through my spine and rest onto the top of my forehead and/or crown.
I went went back on my merry way and couldn't figure out anything about it. I didn't think much about it at the time.
After some reseach and talking to others about it, two major mythical things came up, Kundalini had aligned my chakras and had created a power feeling like a king, and/or Egyptian pharohs wore and were buried with serpernts on their forehead:
Also, my friend who had no idea of chakras experienced and described them perfectly well.
There are many other examples.
But it is still also the case that I have seen and experienced the themes that I was studying at the time. I guess it is a maximization of the brain, which conjures up the past/genes, or connects to a higher dimensional internet. Or something like that...
DisEmboDied
Rising Star
Cazman 043 wrote
"One could say it is the karmic journey of the soul. The Karma will take them only to where they need to go in that moment, and no deeper, one has to be ready to be awoken, if they are not ready, then DMT, meditation, yoga, whatever the practice, they will not be awoken, for they want to stay asleep."
I guess I alwasy just assumed that no matter how asleep one was, that DMT would force an awakening, its power is so strong that no defense mechanisms can resist.
I guess I was wrongs, because it only seems to have caused a spiritual awakening for like 3 out of the 12 say people I have dosed.
I have always assumed that if someone took any psychedelic, then that person would be at least temporarily awakened, and then go on a spiritual journey for life.
Every person I have ever met who has taked LSD at least once in their life has been spiritually or at least on some kind of meta-path ever since. Since DMT is stronger I figured it would force an awakening path faster and stronger like it has done in myself.
I also wonder if some people have the eperience, come down, try to act tough, say it was nothing, and then leave, and spend the next days, months, years thinking about it privately.
I guess there are so many variables, and not every person who takes DMT or a psychedelic will find any awakening or spirituality in it.
"One could say it is the karmic journey of the soul. The Karma will take them only to where they need to go in that moment, and no deeper, one has to be ready to be awoken, if they are not ready, then DMT, meditation, yoga, whatever the practice, they will not be awoken, for they want to stay asleep."
I guess I alwasy just assumed that no matter how asleep one was, that DMT would force an awakening, its power is so strong that no defense mechanisms can resist.
I guess I was wrongs, because it only seems to have caused a spiritual awakening for like 3 out of the 12 say people I have dosed.
I have always assumed that if someone took any psychedelic, then that person would be at least temporarily awakened, and then go on a spiritual journey for life.
Every person I have ever met who has taked LSD at least once in their life has been spiritually or at least on some kind of meta-path ever since. Since DMT is stronger I figured it would force an awakening path faster and stronger like it has done in myself.
I also wonder if some people have the eperience, come down, try to act tough, say it was nothing, and then leave, and spend the next days, months, years thinking about it privately.
I guess there are so many variables, and not every person who takes DMT or a psychedelic will find any awakening or spirituality in it.
brilliantlydim
Rising Star
I think intelligence would matter, but what is your definition of intelligence? I don't think intelligence is limited to, or synonymous with post secondary education. I think there is a wide spectrum of intelligence. A PhD in rocket sciencetry wouldn't look to bright shivering away in the baron ice and snow fields up north as the Inuit guy next to him builds a house out of the snow and pulls food out of the ice.
Perhaps the drive to find deeper meaning is the impetus for many that go onto higher studies, giving you a higher ratio of "educated" people finding deeper meaning in DMT and other entheogens.
There is also the factor/hurdle of one being able to articulate what they got from the experience to another. There may be a lot more going on under the hood then what some is able or wants to share. Probably more true with entheogenic experiences.
I am uneducated and I am getting the deepest of deep out of entheogens, but as you can see my ability to illustrate it is quite lacking (maybe due to my not being educated).
Perhaps the drive to find deeper meaning is the impetus for many that go onto higher studies, giving you a higher ratio of "educated" people finding deeper meaning in DMT and other entheogens.
There is also the factor/hurdle of one being able to articulate what they got from the experience to another. There may be a lot more going on under the hood then what some is able or wants to share. Probably more true with entheogenic experiences.
I am uneducated and I am getting the deepest of deep out of entheogens, but as you can see my ability to illustrate it is quite lacking (maybe due to my not being educated).
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